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View Full Version : [Fea-Req] Less <color> monsters


Kiyoshi Aman
April 25, 2007, 17:56
I dunno about anyone else, but it's kinda bland for monster names to include a reference to their colour. [See worms, jellies, centipedes, snakes, etc.] I think it would be kinda nice to see oozes, puddings, flans, and slimes [for example] rather than just varicoloured jellies.

ToME 3's already doing something like this by replacing the varicoloured snakes with real-world species.

Faust
April 25, 2007, 18:12
Sounds like a good idea, you could for example have blue jellies -> ice jellies, red jellies -> fire jellies, green jellies -> corrosive jellies and so on. silver jellies are a bit tricky perhaps slime of unlight.

Elsairon
April 25, 2007, 20:52
One of the things I like about *band, the unknown monster types. I wouldn't mind more colourful descriptions but I wouldn't want them to give away (or hint at) what kind of attacks or resistances that monster has. IMO one of the 'big features' angband has is the building up of the monster memory.

The colours of the monsters do give information, but only after a player has encountered a couple different breeds of monsters and learns the association.

Faust
April 26, 2007, 00:54
perhaps the descriptions could start with them being colours and give them proper names as you learn more about them.

Chris Wesling
April 26, 2007, 11:22
perhaps the descriptions could start with them being colours and give them proper names as you learn more about them.
I like that, but it might be confusing if the red jellies you've been fighting suddenly start getting called fire jellies instead -- you'll be going "Fire jellies? Where did those come from? What do they do? Eek!

Also note that the hounds already are generally named by what they do, not their colors: you have fire hounds, not red hounds; earth hounds, not brown hounds; etc. So I don't think it'd be too spoily if you did something similar with jellies.

Faust
April 26, 2007, 11:34
I like that, but it might be confusing...
It'd add to the challange. :D

Wolfechu
April 27, 2007, 23:03
silver jellies are a bit tricky perhaps slime of unlight.


Shimmering, flickering, incandescent, glowing?

zasvid
April 28, 2007, 00:51
Well, names like 'fire, ice, water, earth' etc. are also a bit generic with other monsters using them. Maybe it is a good idea to use names like 'burning jelly', 'frosty jelly', 'muddy jelly' and so on.

Daniel Fishman
April 28, 2007, 02:07
Sounds like a good idea, you could for example have blue jellies -> ice jellies, red jellies -> fire jellies, green jellies -> corrosive jellies and so on. silver jellies are a bit tricky perhaps slime of unlight.

Red jellies aren't fire jellies, they're strength-draining-jellies.

Personally, I like the colour names. Giving everything about a monster away through the description seems pointless, the main skill in *bands is learning what can do what to you, both through the monster memory and your own memory.

Daniel Fishman
April 28, 2007, 02:27
Oh, and your 'slime of unlight' made me think of this:

N:617:Slime of Unlight
G:j:W
I:130:40d10:7:20:99
W:40:4:0:1200
B:TOUCH:EAT_LITE:2d10
B:TOUCH:EAT_LITE:2d10
B:TOUCH:BLIND:2d8
F:NEVER_MOVE
F:STUPID | EMPTY_MIND
F:IM_POIS | IM_COLD
F:NO_CONF | NO_SLEEP | NO_FEAR
F:ONLY_GOLD | DROP_1D1
S:1_IN_10
S: DRAIN_MANA | BR_DARK | DARKNESS
D:It seems to be a mound of silver flesh, but
D:it is sucking in all light around it, making it
D:impossible to tell exactly what it is.

Silver jelly on steroids...

(PS @pav. Why can we only edit for 5 minutes after posting?)

pav
April 28, 2007, 11:27
(PS @pav. Why can we only edit for 5 minutes after posting?)
If you edit a post hours after it was made, people who read it in that first hour will never notice the edit. It's better to post a new post in that case.

Chris Wesling
April 28, 2007, 11:50
Sounds like it should be an ironman option, then.

pav
April 28, 2007, 15:36
Okay, due to the feedback I got on this issue, I re-enabled time unlimited editing.

Hugo
April 30, 2007, 10:27
Okay, due to the feedback I got on this issue, I re-enabled time unlimited editing.

Hi Pav,

With the result that you'll now start to get feedback from people who prefer to read a seperate correction message rather than missing the change to the original message. (Yes, this counts as a vote in favor of changing it back - sorry)

pav
April 30, 2007, 11:13
With the result that you'll now start to get feedback from people who prefer to read a seperate correction message rather than missing the change to the original message. (Yes, this counts as a vote in favor of changing it back - sorry)
That's two so far (you and me) - still in a minority...

Daniel Fishman
April 30, 2007, 19:14
Add me to that list, I was just surprised (and tired!), not complaining.

Fuma
May 15, 2007, 00:06
perhaps the descriptions could start with them being colours and give them proper names as you learn more about them.


And we would end up with "a big red dragon" instead of ancient dragons?
Come on, it'd be just plain silly.

For me it was pretty easy to learn the meaning of colours of different low-level monsters after a dozen of dead characters.

Neil Stevens
May 18, 2007, 05:56
Okay, due to the feedback I got on this issue, I re-enabled time unlimited editing.
I'm glad you did.

CunningGabe
February 4, 2008, 21:46
I know this is an old thread, but I'd like to say that I completely agree that we should change the names of the <color> monsters. I often do this in my own monster file; here are a few suggestions:

white jelly -> lactoplasm
silver jelly -> photoplasm
yellow jelly -> tapioca
Large brown snake -> python
Large white snake -> sidewinder
Large yellow snake -> boa constrictor

For some monsters, it might be enough to simply use more interesting color words - for instance, there are many colored molds and mushrooms. Perhaps the grey mold could be ashen instead?

Ultimately, there are more changes I would love to see to the monsters:
- eradicate icky things and centipedes
- use 'i' for insects - perhaps including a centipede or two, but with more variety in general
- use 'c' for cattle, perhaps (e.g., horses, bulls, etc). Or something else.
- other wackier changes I won't mention here.

But reflavoring some of the more mundane monsters would be a good start :)

will_asher
February 4, 2008, 23:19
I know this is an old thread, but I'd like to say that I completely agree that we should change the names of the <color> monsters. I often do this in my own monster file; here are a few suggestions:
You sound like a prime candidate to try DaJAngband. Its gameplay is almost the same as vanilla Angband (except for the changes I took from Eddie G's patch), but I went over the monster list, making a lot of changes with the primary intent of adding flavor and removing monsters that had no flavor (icky things and yeeks) or monsters which didn't belong in a game like Angband (angels).

white jelly -> lactoplasm
silver jelly -> photoplasm
yellow jelly -> tapioca
Large brown snake -> python
Large white snake -> sidewinder
Large yellow snake -> boa constrictor
In DaJAngband, these three snakes (and the large grey one) have been replaced by two: the garter snake (very similar to the "large white snake"), and the cave python (the same as the "large yellow snake" except in color of course.)
Those ideas for jelly names sound good to me, I think I'll put them in DaJAngband. (Although I removed the yellow jelly because it was the same as the white one except a little tougher). Do you have a suggestion for the rot jelly?

For some monsters, it might be enough to simply use more interesting color words - for instance, there are many colored molds and mushrooms. Perhaps the grey mold could be ashen instead?

Ultimately, there are more changes I would love to see to the monsters:
- eradicate icky things and centipedes
- use 'i' for insects - perhaps including a centipede or two, but with more variety in general
- use 'c' for cattle, perhaps (e.g., horses, bulls, etc). Or something else.


In DaJAngband icky things have been removed. There are only two types of centipedes replacing all those colored ones in vanilla that are mostly the same as each other. There are also less types of molds (the grey mold was removed) There aren't any cattle, but there are a couple similar things which use the "q" symbol: rothes from Nethack which are like noctural oxen, and The Boar of Everholt which is from from Tolkien's works.
plus "- other wackier changes I won't mention here." Feel free to suggest your wackier ideas, I might just use them.

As soon as I finish the monster descriptions, I will be releasing a (very slightly) new version of DaJAngband which has the ability to sell to shops as a birth option, so you can choose to keep it or go without. The current version uses Eddie's patch as is, so you can't sell to shops.

takkaria
February 5, 2008, 12:22
You sound like a prime candidate to try DaJAngband. Its gameplay is almost the same as vanilla Angband (except for the changes I took from Eddie G's patch), but I went over the monster list, making a lot of changes with the primary intent of adding flavor and removing monsters that had no flavor (icky things and yeeks) or monsters which didn't belong in a game like Angband (angels).

I will be looking at a monster list refresh for V by 3.2.0. The related bug on the bugtracker is #443 (http://dev.rephial.org/trac/ticket/443). (Feel free to link to anything which might be useful in doing this in the comments bit.)

will_asher
February 5, 2008, 14:51
I will be looking at a monster list refresh for V by 3.2.0. The related bug on the bugtracker is #443 (http://dev.rephial.org/trac/ticket/443). (Feel free to link to anything which might be useful in doing this in the comments bit.)

I'm honored to have a "bug" report largely based on my suggestions with links and everything. (Hey, one of them links back to this thread which links back there, you could go in a neverending loop creating an endless number of windows by clinking on that link and the link to this thread over and over..)
I guess DaJAngband could have some impact even though no one plays it but me. Hopefully, within the next week I'll will have the monster descriptions finished and will post DaJAngband 1.0.03. I been working on those monster descriptions a lot more in the past few days (although tonight I've been reading Penance).