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View Full Version : [YACD] [V3.1.1] HE Ranger: What to carry?


Pete Mack
January 10, 2010, 06:41
I'm trying for 500K turn win.
I've got a big stack of useful staves & swaps, so my inventory is completely full of stuff I want to carry.

Any suggestions on what to drop?
http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=9784

* Staff of Dispel Evil, but it really cuts turncount on troll pits.
* Azhagal swap for IM_Fire is another possibility.
* MB3, and do without Sat. Hunger, Detect Invis and STM. (ID spell is worthless, and I have ESP as primary swap.)
* !Heroism (Saving throw is 83%, pretty good, but I'm still only Heroic in melee (where I do a lot of damage--archery is very weak.)

Magnate
January 10, 2010, 09:00
I'm trying for 500K turn win.
I've got a big stack of useful staves & swaps, so my inventory is completely full of stuff I want to carry.

Any suggestions on what to drop?
http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=9784

* Staff of Dispel Evil, but it really cuts turncount on troll pits.
* Azhagal swap for IM_Fire is another possibility.
* MB3, and do without Sat. Hunger, Detect Invis and STM. (ID spell is worthless, and I have ESP as primary swap.)
* !Heroism (Saving throw is 83%, pretty good, but I'm still only Heroic in melee (where I do a lot of damage--archery is very weak.)I would drop MB3 and the staff, and keep Azaghal and !hero.

Also, what do you use MB2 for? My rangers don't carry it, IIRC.

Pete Mack
January 10, 2010, 09:44
I commute by teleportation, rather a lot. (It's the only spell I use in MB2.)

Detect objects [nothing]
Teleport Self
Detect objects [something good]
Detect doors, monsters, Magic Map
go pick it up, and fight any useful targets.
NOTE: not recommended with bad stealth or aggravation, or when lots of dangerous monsters are already awake.

I don't think it's possible to win in <500K turns without this trick.

PS: I surely wouldn't mind if an alternate spell were added to Mordy's. That would really help a lot.

fizzix
January 10, 2010, 15:08
What are you carrying Raal's for? Do you ever use it?

If you're going for turncount be a bit wary about chucking MB3. Having to recall because of food can be annoying. Even if you bring a scroll or two of satisfy hunger down, it'll be the first thing you chuck when inventory fills up. I'd keep MB3 and ditch the scrolls of recharging. Use one on your empty staff first. How often are you recharging stuff in the dungeon?

I'd drop the rods of TO at home. If you manage to get 4 or 5 then chuck the wands and use the rods instead. Don't waste an inventory slot carrying both around.

I think you're going to need at least a swap for Regen.

Remuz
January 11, 2010, 09:22
Please allow one newbish question. :)

What motivated your choice of high-elf? Sure, there are great advantages to that class, but wouldn't the XP penalty complicate your objective of winning under 500k turns?

Magnate
January 11, 2010, 18:48
Please allow one newbish question. :)

What motivated your choice of high-elf? Sure, there are great advantages to that class, but wouldn't the XP penalty complicate your objective of winning under 500k turns?Generally not. The XP penalty simply means you're approx 2 experience levels behind where a human would be (and only one behind another fairly high xp class, like a hobbit). Later in the game it's all about stats, and the difference between something like 37 and 39 is pretty trivial - not enough hp, sp or failure to matter.

fizzix
January 11, 2010, 19:11
Generally not. The XP penalty simply means you're approx 2 experience levels behind where a human would be (and only one behind another fairly high xp class, like a hobbit). Later in the game it's all about stats, and the difference between something like 37 and 39 is pretty trivial - not enough hp, sp or failure to matter.

This is very true (and IMO a bad thing).

Magnate
January 11, 2010, 19:40
This is very true (and IMO a bad thing).Bad how? You mean that the XP penalty is not enough of a true penalty? But those high-xp classes are intended to be "easier", so gimping them in some real way would defeat the point of them. Or you mean that the difference is no negligible at high levels? That's a much bigger deal (at least for me), but has much more complex solutions: making a lot more things depend on clev is moving a long way down the spectrum from V to O. Clev has never been a big deal in V, it's mainly just a few hp and a small reduction in failure rates. Even those are mainly dealt with by CON and spell stat.

Nick
January 11, 2010, 20:02
I commute by teleportation, rather a lot.

So that's telecommuting, right?

fizzix
January 11, 2010, 20:07
Or you mean that the difference is no negligible at high levels? That's a much bigger deal (at least for me), but has much more complex solutions: making a lot more things depend on clev is moving a long way down the spectrum from V to O. Clev has never been a big deal in V, it's mainly just a few hp and a small reduction in failure rates. Even those are mainly dealt with by CON and spell stat.

This one. Maybe I'd prefer the way that O does it. Even if the HP bonus was a more linear function of CON it'd be better. Changing Con from 15-16 doesn't seem to matter at all, but changing it from 18/170-18/180 can give you 50 or so HP. Same with SP and INT/WIS

With HP it *sometimes* leads to interesting situations. But with SP I think it really reduces gameplay in that there's always some point where suddenly you can cast a bunch of spells, whereas before only a couple were reasonable. Even with HP there's often a breakpoint from 'almost everything can kill me with one breath' to 'nothing can kill me with one breath'

Pete Mack
January 11, 2010, 23:31
So that's telecommuting, right?

Right. And it doesn't work very well when your character is a high level executive.

The teleportation algorithm needs to be fixed, so you don't just bounce back and forth between two or three (dangerous) rooms at either end of the map.

fizzix
January 12, 2010, 03:55
Right. And it doesn't work very well when your character is a high level executive.

The teleportation algorithm needs to be fixed, so you don't just bounce back and forth between two or three (dangerous) rooms at either end of the map.

The problem is that the distance value for SPELL_TELEPORT_SELF is plevel*5 for and plevel*8 for PRAYER_TELEPORT_SELF. The minimum distance for teleport_player is plevel *[5,8]/2

Just change the minimum range cutoff. Instead of using dis/2 use minimum of dis/2 and N (50 or 75 seems reasonable) Especially for priests using teleport self, with a minimum distance of 200 at plevel 50 you are almost bound to go as far away from your current location as possible.

Pete Mack
January 13, 2010, 07:03
Please allow one newbish question. :)

What motivated your choice of high-elf? Sure, there are great advantages to that class, but wouldn't the XP penalty complicate your objective of winning under 500k turns?


Just for the record--you really don't need to be cl 50 to win, especially with an Uber-powerful character like High-elf Ranger. It's much more important to start out strong, because all characters with +CON race bonus are adequately strong at the end.

Here's the corresponding winning post:

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=9784

I used Crown of Might & Amulet of ESP for sustains in the final battle, allowing me to swap in RoDamage as well. Ran out of arrows at 2 stars. (Didn't bother to pick them up, since 114 dam/turn is more than enough to take M in melee.) Prior to that, used Thranduil for +INT, for spell failure rates.

Remuz
January 13, 2010, 20:25
Well, what can I say... congratulations! :)

Pete Mack
January 13, 2010, 20:30
@Remuz -
thanks!

Really, that win was pretty easy. (2 !Heal and 2 !CCW, along with several escapes when M summoned uniques, as most of them were still alive)

Remuz
January 13, 2010, 20:37
As most things (not only roguelike), watching an expert always looks like it is so easy. In reality, it sure isn't. :)
In any case, you made me want to try my hands at rangers. Fear Unnamed the second! (well, this time my toon has a name)

Using so few pots for Morgoth seems a feat to me. Did you use any particular technique, or did you stick to the destruction/teleportother/teleportself to handle summons? What about uniques that you (obviously) did not have time to kill on your way down?

Pete Mack
January 13, 2010, 21:05
Main rule: Create Doors is your friend.

Always create doors prior to M's arrival. It really cuts down on danger from summons, especially in a hallway:


Morgoth summons Special Adversaries! -- more ---
################U###########
###############U############
############UUU#############
+ + +@'PWDDLL+ + + +
###########################


Something like this makes phase door much safer if M summons.
You can ?Phase door with reasonable safety, as the extra door will (usually) block LOS, and also reduce the size of the summons.

You have time to STM or or create more doors or whatever to get out of LOS, and deal with (TO) the summons one at a time.

After that:
Teleport Other as much as possible for summons, especially uniques. Used *Destruction* on M's summons when I teleported back into a place I'd already been.
Also after TO'ing M once.
Used ?Banishment when M summoned Lungorthin and (a lot of) friends, and two other times.
Also, reduced the damage by using knights move tactics, including one cheesy use of STM (hockey stick) prior to M's arrival, for something like 12 free shots. I felt too guilty to do it again.
Also, with Belthronding as a Ranger, you can get off 3 extra shots per ?Phase Door. It adds up pretty fast.