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K.I.L.E.R
October 2, 2007, 04:29
Under what conditions would the game be beatable every time?

Reading people's win of the game has so many elements of luck and countering of bad luck that I wonder if it's experience under bad conditions that make a person able to win the game regardless of what the RNG throws at them.

Atriel
October 2, 2007, 06:32
Being able to survive ONE attack of something that can appear at the dlvl
you are(having enough speed not to be doublemoved), being able to DETECT everything beforehand to prepare and buff or flee if too tough.
If one dies taking two similar hits from same target, it is their own fault, not bad luck.
Died to a Drolem? it was due to lack of res poison or lack of detection.
The game seems daunting at first, but as your skill grow you learn that luck elements affect little in survivability during gameplay, and most deaths are due to the player´s fault.
Like, taking another step instead of ?teleport after seeing a dracolich without resnether or trying to melee one more turn that Greater Titan after he summons inertia hounds...
Usually one turn is the difference between life and death. Take your time and do the best choice in that one turn. That one turn might even be two turns before you died, that you could activate that staff of detection.
Using that concept, probably every game is beatable.

Nick
October 2, 2007, 07:10
The game seems daunting at first, but as your skill grow you learn that luck elements affect little in survivability during gameplay, and most deaths are due to the player´s fault.


Maybe. Which of these two was wrong, though?
Character number one (http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=4505) (my best ever O character) stayed too long fighting a Beholder, had it at 1 star and fleeing and got cursed to death.

I remembered this for Character number two (http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=5901) (my best ever FA character), and teleported away from a Beholder, into a room full of Gravity and Inertia Hounds for instadeath.

I guess I should have healed both times, actually, so it was my fault. Decisions can be tricky sometimes, though.

Psi
October 2, 2007, 07:49
Maybe. Which of these two was wrong, though?
Character number one (http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=4505) (my best ever O character) stayed too long fighting a Beholder, had it at 1 star and fleeing and got cursed to death.

I remembered this for Character number two (http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=5901) (my best ever FA character), and teleported away from a Beholder, into a room full of Gravity and Inertia Hounds for instadeath.
I think the lesson to be learnt is don't fight beholders! Seriously though, when you had so many !healing in your inventory there was no need for the first death. With the second one, if you are in trouble, don't teleport - use TL. That *should* be a lot safer and give you a chance to regroup.

Si

Paffa
October 2, 2007, 08:18
Or teleport other :P I prefer it over self-teleportation..

Nick
October 2, 2007, 08:24
I think the lesson to be learnt is don't fight beholders! Seriously though, when you had so many !healing in your inventory there was no need for the first death. With the second one, if you are in trouble, don't teleport - use TL. That *should* be a lot safer and give you a chance to regroup.

The first one was laziness; I knew another curse could kill me, and just kept on pinging away with missiles because I couldn't be bothered thinking what else to do. For the second I was too influenced by the first (I wasn't actually too low on HP before teleporting), and didn't TL because there was stuff on the level I wanted to go back to. So in fact it was greed. Looks like it's the seven deadly sins you have to watch out for - although I can't see how lust is going to be a problem...

Atriel
October 2, 2007, 08:43
Oooo how sad, you died only 1 level away to get Genocide...
heh, i learned the hard way from 3 high level [O] necros to genocyde Z´s, X´s and g´s immediately after entering new levels when reaching clvl 43...
Best O Necro (http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=5982) <=- this one i dunno if it was bad luck, lack of speed or lack of knowledge, and then i remember that i lost like 10 characters to Ungoliant in several variants, 5 or so in [O] and i realize how stupid i am õ_O
This one died exactly like yours, flee with ?teleport falling in a room full of nasties (http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=3239) but then i remember i was sooooo sick of being deep by dlvl 7x for aeons and not finding any source of speed other than the sling and boots of speed +1 spd!!! that i was getting cocky...
Hey Nick, does Ungoliant in [FA] retains its evil nightbreath with paralyze thru FA? I must remember to wear something that give me res fear with my casters :)

Nick
October 2, 2007, 08:57
Hey Nick, does Ungoliant in [FA] retains its evil nightbreath with paralyze thru FA? I must remember to wear something that give me res fear with my casters :)

Yep, she does :)

Mondkalb
October 2, 2007, 09:20
The RNG can be a bastard though. I rely very much on wands/rods of teleport other.
My last (dead ;)) rogue couldn't get one. He was at Clvl 18 or such and still no findings in the dungeon and not one in the magic shoppe or the frelling black market. :mad:

Psi
October 2, 2007, 09:58
Yep, she does :)
I never knew about that! I'd have treated Ungoliant with a bit more respect if I'd known she could paralyse you even with FA - how long does it last?

Psi
October 2, 2007, 11:09
Nearly lost my comp char (http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=7108). Was in a battle with Pazuzu, who summoned greater demons and by the end of the following round I was down to 98HP... I was so tempted to activate Soulkeeper and keep fighting. However if it failed I was dead so I had to chicken out and I TL'd out of the GCV. First thing I did in the new level was activate Soulkeeper - 'it whines, glows and fades...'. Thank goodness I TL'd - hadn't realised it hadn't recharged yet!

TL is your friend. It saves you from yourself as well as your enemies. Never leave home without it.

Paffa
October 2, 2007, 17:09
I've never used Teleport level, even with my winner chars :D I prefer to teleport myself/enemy away, rest and continue battle.

Psi
October 2, 2007, 21:28
Teleporting yourself however can land you in a pack of gravity hounds - at least TL tends to give you a turn to react to your new surroundings. I would always *prefer* to TA - however unless you are a spellcaster with a 0% fail spell there is no guarantee that it will work and that one time it doesn't you may find yourself dead the next turn.

Mondkalb
October 3, 2007, 07:26
Don't wait - teleport away, what you can't handle yet. Teleport away if it is to many on the spot. You can chase down difficult or dangerous foes later and pick them one by one and you can also lure them to anti summon corridors.

For vaults reading a scroll of phase door is enough in most cases. It will always teleport you out of the vault. You should have cleaned the area before entering. Also detecting the area would be a good idea to prevent encountering foes you have teleported away earlier.