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Ian
October 22, 2007, 03:59
I am on my 10th preist now and evil eyes are the death of me every time I get by one I just die. I get:

*** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> You resist the effects!
> The Floating eye gazes at you.
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> The Floating eye gazes at you.
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> You resist the effects!
> The Floating eye gazes at you.
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> You resist the effects!
> The Floating eye gazes at you.
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> You resist the effects!
> The Floating eye gazes at you.
> You die.

Problem is I my resist the effects but it doesn't get me a chance to move or attack it. This is only the save file cut of the messages it goes on for pages when you go back in the messages after death, nothing like a slow death for a lvl 10 priest. As far as I know I have all normal setting set as if i just downloaded it new.

Big Al
October 22, 2007, 04:24
Floating eyes have a special attack that can paralyze you. For low-level characters, this is pretty much a near guaranteed death. The simple solution to this is, don't attack them in the first place. A common mistake that a lot of new players make is that they think that they should attack everything. If you run into something that can paralyze you, then avoid them! For floating eyes, you can attack them from a distance (with bow&arrow and/or spells), or just leave them alone. Luckily, Floating Eyes can only paralyze you when you're standing right beside them.

Later on in the game (at depths of ~1000 feet) you can find rings of Free Action (and other kinds of equipment too), which provide resistance to paralysis. Also a high wisdom will help the chances of resisting paralysis.

(The paralysis lasts several turns, which is why, even if you resist the effects once, you'll probably be still be paralyzed from the previous turn(s).)

Magnate
October 22, 2007, 09:32
If you could scroll back through those messages you would find one that said "You are paralyzed!" (Ignore the american spelling, you get the gist.)

There will also have been the word "paralyzed!" in red at the bottom of the main window (status bar).

That's why you couldn't move or attack. As Al says, the key to this is to avoid paralyzers (don't worry, they're quite rare) and find a source of Free Action (ring, boots, whatever).

Good luck,

CC

andrewdoull
October 22, 2007, 09:36
Its worth pointing out that floating eyes are so bad at hitting that a few (e.g. 10 or so) points of AC should be enough to save you against them.

Daven_26d1
October 22, 2007, 11:23
You didn't resist them all. Here:


> The Floating eye gazes at you.
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> The Floating eye gazes at you.


it gets you. No resist see? As mentioned, you were already paralyzed by this point, so no message was echoed. Think of that hit like a "top-up".

As Andrew mentioned, wear more armour. It shouldn't be hitting that often,
I don't remember ever losing a priest to floating eyes.

Cloak, boots & gloves all cost next to nothing, and along with phase door scrolls, are the first things you should buy. :)

Ian
October 22, 2007, 12:14
You didn't resist them all. Here:



it gets you. No resist see? As mentioned, you were already paralyzed by this point, so no message was echoed. Think of that hit like a "top-up".

As Andrew mentioned, wear more armour. It shouldn't be hitting that often,
I don't remember ever losing a priest to floating eyes.

Cloak, boots & gloves all cost next to nothing, and along with phase door scrolls, are the first things you should buy. :)

But resisting 1 should be enough to let me do another action right?

You resist the effects!
> The Floating eye gazes at you.
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> The Floating eye gazes at you.
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> You resist the effects!
> The Floating eye gazes at you.

I did resist some and based on another death I just had where I was lvl 7 priest again I resisted 32 times and never got a chance to do a thing. In version 3.0.6 after I had a lvl 5 character evil eyes were a joke even without free action. They would stop you a few times but they would never lock you down forever without a chance to do something. Based on this if I had a lvl 40 character, without free action, I could still die to an evil eye because I get no chance to do anything once this txt starts going even if I resist. I guess if I have enough ac I can watch for hours as these messages go by but its not doing any damage.

Ian
October 22, 2007, 12:20
Floating eyes have a special attack that can paralyze you. For low-level characters, this is pretty much a near guaranteed death. The simple solution to this is, don't attack them in the first place. A common mistake that a lot of new players make is that they think that they should attack everything. If you run into something that can paralyze you, then avoid them! For floating eyes, you can attack them from a distance (with bow&arrow and/or spells), or just leave them alone. Luckily, Floating Eyes can only paralyze you when you're standing right beside them.

Later on in the game (at depths of ~1000 feet) you can find rings of Free Action (and other kinds of equipment too), which provide resistance to paralysis. Also a high wisdom will help the chances of resisting paralysis.

(The paralysis lasts several turns, which is why, even if you resist the effects once, you'll probably be still be paralyzed from the previous turn(s).)

I understand this but when I died I went back through the messages and it went back 2 to 3 pages at most some with x7, x5, x9, so I was paralyzed for alot of turns without comming out. So if you are paralyzed just how long does it last? It seem forever now in this version where an evil eye in 3.0.6 was only realy a threat to paralyze when other monsters were arround.

Daven_26d1
October 22, 2007, 13:14
But resisting 1 should be enough to let me do another action right?


Nope. Its like poison, every turn you take the effect of the status (damage or not being able to move) and the number of "points" if you like is reduced.

So, as I said, the eye is "topping-up" your remaining turns of paralysis, ie increasing the number of turns you have to miss. Until that count is zero, you don't move.

To reiterate:
either wear more armour or stop engaging eyes in melee.

EDIT - sounds like takkaria made eyes more dangerous. 'bout time.

zaimoni
October 22, 2007, 16:28
So if you are paralyzed just how long does it last? It seem forever now in this version where an evil eye in 3.0.6 was only realy a threat to paralyze when other monsters were around.In both V3.0.6 and V.3.0.9, the paralyze attack inflicts a minimum of 4 normal-speed turns of paralysis, and a maximum of 3+(monster level) normal-speed turns of paralysis.

I don't see any changes in the C source (either timeout code or attack code) that would cause an increase in paralytic efficiency.

Big Al
October 22, 2007, 19:53
Note that there are two separate monsters, floating eyes and evil eyes, the former is found at 50' and can melee-paralyse, the latter is found at 900' and can paralyse from a distance and attack to lower experience. I assume that you're talking about the floating eyes even though you called them evil eyes.

Daven_26d1
October 22, 2007, 20:44
I assume that you're talking about the floating eyes even though you called them evil eyes.


> The Floating eye gazes at you.
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> The Floating eye gazes at you.


Chose not to clarify this earlier, so I didn't spoil anything, but yeah, I guess he means floating eyes. =)

Ian
October 22, 2007, 22:37
In both V3.0.6 and V.3.0.9, the paralyze attack inflicts a minimum of 4 normal-speed turns of paralysis, and a maximum of 3+(monster level) normal-speed turns of paralysis.

I don't see any changes in the C source (either timeout code or attack code) that would cause an increase in paralytic efficiency.

Ok my bad on calling them evil eyes, I guess they were evil to me and eyes. Ok floating eyes in 3.0.6 never dirrectly killed any of my early characters. I mean a level 10 and 7 priest plus a few other priests that lvl just never saved even once to get away, just instant killed?

What damage does a floating eye do and take my little bit of AC plus health at that level, plus good resist chance, plus floating eyes chance to miss and how many turn about does that run? Alot and you would think 1 of my priest so far would have had a fraction of a chance in all the turns to maybe be able to react and move away.

Possible reason I didnt think of is I usualy run into them going down a hall way and they surprise me, using the quick move stopping at doors and the like. Could the program just keep saying im tring to move down the hall way, but not noticing the blocking eye thus every time I do save or come out of paralyze i just auto move again?

Daven_26d1
October 22, 2007, 22:46
No. If you move into the eye, you'll attack and if you move into a wall you won't waste a turn. I can't think what else you mean, and I presume by "auto-move" you mean "running" and you won't keep on trying to run in this situation.

The eyes are really just traps that catch you out if you aren't paying attention; also be aware that it can be dangerous to run into unexplored corridors if you cut the corners...

andrewdoull
October 23, 2007, 00:11
What damage does a floating eye do and take my little bit of AC plus health at that level, plus good resist chance, plus floating eyes chance to miss and how many turn about does that run? Alot and you would think 1 of my priest so far would have had a fraction of a chance in all the turns to maybe be able to react and move away.

A floating eye does no damage to you unless you are paralyzed, in which case it does 1 hp.

This is to prevent you sitting for an infinite length of time getting gazed at and suffer the indignity of starving to death.

Andrew

Magnate
October 23, 2007, 10:14
Ok my bad on calling them evil eyes, I guess they were evil to me and eyes. Ok floating eyes in 3.0.6 never dirrectly killed any of my early characters. I mean a level 10 and 7 priest plus a few other priests that lvl just never saved even once to get away, just instant killed?
Ian, you're not quite getting it. It doesn't matter how many times you save (and your priests probably both saved quite often), if you are still paralysed by a previously failed save. Don't forget that each failed save paralyses you for FOUR turns, not just one. So once you're paralysed, you have to save four times *in a row*, because the first three will be part of the existing paralysis, and only the fourth will actually let you move again.

Is that any clearer? This is why people are telling you not to fight floating eyes by standing next to them. By all means chuck rocks at them or fire arrows at them, but don't stand next to them. It's really not difficult.
Possible reason I didnt think of is I usualy run into them going down a hall way and they surprise me, using the quick move stopping at doors and the like. Could the program just keep saying im tring to move down the hall way, but not noticing the blocking eye thus every time I do save or come out of paralyze i just auto move again?
No, I'm pretty confident that this isn't happening. You are simply continually paralysed, because you never make four saves in a row. If your priest has a 60% chance of saving (I have no idea what the real figure is, but bear with me), then making four saves in a row is only 13% likely. (EDIT: it's actually even worse than this, because when you fail a second save another four turns of paralysis are added to however many you have remaining, rather than just re-setting the counter to four - so you can end up needing 8 ... 12 ... 16 consecutive saves ....)

You shouldn't run into them, because the running code should always stop you as soon as a monster comes into view. The only possible issue is if you are using the run_cut_corners option, which is unwise because you can step round a corner and be right next to a monster.

CC

Seany C
October 23, 2007, 12:41
Is that any clearer? This is why people are telling you not to fight floating eyes by standing next to them. By all means chuck rocks at them or fire arrows at them, but don't stand next to them. It's really not difficult.


Simple(ish) solution: buy a sling and a bunch of rounded pebbles/iron shots - once you see an eye,'f'ire these from a minimum of 2 squares away until the eye is one big dead mush of conjuctivitis. At the risk of sounding spoily, once you get into double figures for CL, you should have a spell that can do damage from a distance so you won't need to use the sling/pebble method.

Also, as someone said earlier, once your AC is above 15 or so, you'd be quite unlucky to get 'hit' (i.e. "gazed at") by the eye before you splat it with your mace/whip/blunt object of choice...

Big Al
October 23, 2007, 16:32
You shouldn't run into them, because the running code should always stop you as soon as a monster comes into view. The only possible issue is if you are using the run_cut_corners option, which is unwise because you can step round a corner and be right next to a monster.

New in 3.0.9 is torches have radius-2 light if they have over 2500(or is it 3000?) fuel, so always try to keep torches fueled up at least that much - that way, you'll see the monsters before you're right next to them.

Magnate
October 24, 2007, 10:11
New in 3.0.9 is torches have radius-2 light if they have over 2500(or is it 3000?) fuel, so always try to keep torches fueled up at least that much - that way, you'll see the monsters before you're right next to them.
Thanks for the reminder - I'd forgotten that you could also run into them if your light source is only radius 1, even without run_cut_corners on. But I don't think I've ever played with a light source of radius 1, so I neglected to mention it!

CC