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Halloween Jack
October 29, 2007, 15:46
hi there,

i've had problems in the past with seemingly never ending monsters. i had a huge number of spiders once on my case, i got through it, but only just. i just went up against giant white louses (lice?) and i keep going for ages (i killed over 140) but eventually they got me, there seemed to be loads left. the monster memory says they breed explosively. i guess this is the problem.

are there any tactics for killing these guys. i can't imagine how i could fought it better so i'm hoping there's some trick to it. i was level 8 and only on level 5.

any ideas?

Seany C
October 29, 2007, 15:52
hi there,

i've had problems in the past with seemingly never ending monsters. i had a huge number of spiders once on my case, i got through it, but only just. i just went up against giant white louses (lice?) and i keep going for ages (i killed over 140) but eventually they got me, there seemed to be loads left. the monster memory says they breed explosively. i guess this is the problem.

are there any tactics for killing these guys. i can't imagine how i could fought it better so i'm hoping there's some trick to it. i was level 8 and only on level 5.

any ideas?

The simple answer, particularly at low CLs, is to run once they get out of control. If they are in an open space and appear to be breeding faster than you can kill them then it's time to get out of there - back to the stairs or recall/TL off the level.

For spellcasters (or a Warrior with wands/rods), a cloud spell like Stinking Cloud can kill lice off pretty effectively if you have enough charges.
Better still, FAA (and O?) has a Druid spell that effectively kills off any monster in LOS with less than X HPs (not many, usually around 6-12, but it's enough to kill off lice and urchins)...

Halloween Jack
October 29, 2007, 16:03
ah thanks. they were way out of control, breeding in a large room. i fired off a stinking cloud and used rod (or wand) of wonder which gave me a couple of AoEs but they just kept coming. oh well, i know now. i'll run next time.

cheers

Mondkalb
October 29, 2007, 16:29
Don't ever forget about them! They are just a warning of things to come. ;)
There are some really nasty breeders deep down in the dungeon.

Most of them should be killed immediately, if possible.

Psi
October 29, 2007, 16:31
Remember as well, that lice can't open doors.

Halloween Jack
October 29, 2007, 17:43
i see. good tip.

takkaria
November 1, 2007, 01:34
i can't imagine how i could fought it better so i'm hoping there's some trick to it. i was level 8 and only on level 5.

Breeders are there to teach you two somewhat related but very important lessons: sometimes, running is the best option; and that not all creatures are worth fighting.

Someone else here said "run when they get out of control" -- I'd say run before they get out of control, and shut doors behind you as you go. If you don't kill them off within a few turns of waking up, then the time you waste trying to kill them is better spent doing other things. The reward for killing louses is quantity is, to pun, lousy.

Mondkalb
November 1, 2007, 07:00
Breeders also can show up in vaults and greater vaults. Until then, you should be able to handle them, but they can nevertheless spread over the vault if not killed or removed soon.
Ball spells are one method, but unfotunately you might don't want to use them in a vault as they could destroy stuff on the ground you are desperately looking for.
Better ways: banish them or teleport away if only one or few in a row, haste yourself and try to kill them asap, use sleep spell/staff/wand/rod to calm them down until you reach them (this can be dangerous though, they may be woken up by breathing monsters behind them). (The loss of a few hitpoints is not the main problem, but some breeders can blind, confuse or poison you.)

ShinX3
November 5, 2007, 03:37
If you meet a unique that likes to summon these guys are YOUR FRIENDS. Often they can't hurt you.. and they take up space.

... still annoying as heck tho.

TreeFrog
November 5, 2007, 07:33
I've picked up angband for the first time recently having played Moria and Omega in the past.

Looking at the breeding monsters thread - I started with a dwarf priest.

He was on Level 1, and encountered white worm mass in a room. I found I could just run through them, back and forth, back and forth, gaining levels as I went. I'd reached character level 7 before I got bored.

Is this cheating? A bug? Hm. Anyway, it seems that breeders can be useful to a starting character.

tigen
November 5, 2007, 08:03
Heh, yeah that's known as farming. It's not cheating. But it's kind of tedious and probably not the most efficient route in terms of turn count. The experience you get from killing white worm masses (and other weak creatures) goes down significantly as you gain levels, and they drop no loot for your time. In the long run the loot in Angband is far more important than your experience level.

Many aspects of Angband fall into this category of cheesiness/tedium vs. risk. If you play as conservatively as possible you can make progress with almost no risk of dying. The Borg (an AI player for Angband) is the ultimate example. Sometimes people use the turn count used by a character to judge how well it was played.

takkaria
November 5, 2007, 10:53
He was on Level 1, and encountered white worm mass in a room. I found I could just run through them, back and forth, back and forth, gaining levels as I went. I'd reached character level 7 before I got bored.

Yeah, but do you really want to play the game like that? It's just not fun.

TreeFrog
November 5, 2007, 11:44
It wasn't that fun, no.

It did however give me an early boost to character level, more spells etc. I don't think I'll be doing it again with this character but I still think it was useful in the very early game. Especially with a spellcaster - well, priest anyway.