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zaimoni
November 6, 2007, 03:19
(Terse version of RGRA post, please pardon the double posting)

Zaiband is a V3.0.6 fork. Download from http://www.zaimoni.com/zaiband/ .

User-visible changes in Zaiband 3.0.7:
- trap generation is somewhat more intelligent.
- autoinscriptions that block actions only work once, no matter how many of them there are. !* is still cumulative with action-specific blocks.
- projection paths (arrows, bolt spells, etc.) have been adjusted. Knight-move ambush still works, but the hockey puck corridor won't. The easier trick shots are automatically handled. There probably are a few bugs where invisible squares can be hit by careful choice of position targeting, but I haven't checked for them carefully.
- the reasonable bolt and summons checks in monster AI have been disconnected from the smart_monsters option. [They, at least, are working.]
- discounts have been eliminated.
- player noise is now generated when the player does something. A single central check is made, and if the player made noise it is applied to
all monsters that should be affected. Aggravation, being more mystical, happens when the monster is processed.
- options eliminated
** forced true: fresh_before, allow_quantity, expand_list
** forced false: fresh_after, stack_force_costs

andrewdoull
November 6, 2007, 04:34
(Terse version of RGRA post, please pardon the double posting)

Zaiband is a V3.0.6 fork. Download from http://www.zaimoni.com/zaiband/ .


Why? Not to criticise, I just want to understand your reasoning behind a fork off of V. It sounds like a lot of what you are doing has been handled elsewhere e.g. NPPAngband, Sangband etc.

Andrew

zaimoni
November 6, 2007, 05:03
I like the motivation behind the 4GAI, but think a reimplementation from first principles would be "better".

andrewdoull
November 6, 2007, 06:52
I like the motivation behind the 4GAI, but think a reimplementation from first principles would be "better".

I'm not a huge fan of re-inventing the wheel myself...

Will you be re-merging your changes back into Angband or continuing to maintain a separate fork?

(And that way madness lies...)

In fact, I'll make an extended plea for anyone considering to fork off Angband again - by far the overwhelming response to why people weren't playing Unangband was that there are too many other variants out there. It didn't help that Un doesn't have a clear 'mandate', like NPP, Steam, Hellband etc, but in general, I don't see happiness for anyone else trying to fish from the same pool. Ironband, which Antoine is working on, I see more as a 'call to the heretics playing Crawl, etc.' to come home... but it's the exception that proves the rule - he's a smart enough developer to do 'short and sweet' projects, not the unending coding efforts that UnAngband, FA, NPP etc. fall prey to.

And Angband itself is in need of lots of coding love; even if it's just a matter of merging the UI improvements from other variants back in. And for the love of Leon, don't be afraid of changing the game. People can always drop back to an older version for 'classic' Angband. Witness Timo's efforts playing frog-knows.

Come to mention it, I'll also post this back on rgra. It might be better to discuss there.

zaimoni
November 6, 2007, 08:32
I'm not a huge fan of re-inventing the wheel myself...

Will you be re-merging your changes back into Angband or continuing to maintain a separate fork?Both.

Subject to language differences, I'd like to propose merging changes back in when they go along V's lines anyway. (E.g., I think that the intelligent spell selection changes I'm planning for Zaiband 3.0.8 should be merged back into V...to the extent they don't make V too difficult, anyway.)

Other changes, probably too drastic for me to propose merging in. Although I'll leave that decision to AS. E.g., I doubt that automated trick shots are a minor change. And "viewability=projectability" is definitely a large change, even if Eddie considers it a bugfix approach. (Note that I rewrote the projection algorithm to symmetrize diagonals and cardinal directions, I'm not sure what the true 4GAI variants have done here).

Original planning for Zaiband was back in Jan. 2004.