PDA

View Full Version : Angband User Manual Wiki


JamesDoyle
November 11, 2007, 18:15
Hi all

I've been playing Angband for quite a while now, and evetually recently got my first completion. I had promised myself that when I had managed that I would attempt to write an up-to-date User manual, pulling together as much of the information that's available in the various help, info and edit files, and filling in gaps and answering questions I had come up with during playing.

A few days ago I discovered this site, and the beginnings of the UserManual wiki; I decided that, as someone else had begun the job, rather than start from scratch I would build on their good work.

I'm currently (re-)writing the pages on character generation, and could do with the following questions being answered:

What are the character's height and weight measured in? I know it doesn't matter, but if there is an answer, I want to put it in.
What are the attributes labelled Status and Maximize?
What is the difference between Fight and Melee?
And a more general one - is there a list somewhere of the various descriptive ratings for the secondary skills such as Stealth: e.g. Fair, Very Good, Legendary, etc..

There'll be more questions as I work my way through the manual but those will do for now; also, if anyone wants to look at the pages and critique my style or point out errors, please do so.

P.S. Two points about the wiki itself - can it include images, and can you do internal links within a page? I can't see mention of such in the HowTo Format page.

ekolis
November 11, 2007, 18:45
Height I believe is measured in inches, while weight is measured in kilotons. Oops, I thought I was playing Space Empires for a moment; I believe it's measured in pounds ;)

Status means "social status" which is rolled randomly (though I think it's affected by race) and determines your character's default description text (you know, like "You are a child of a Serf and are a credit to the family.") It used to also determine how much gold you start with...

Fight includes only bonuses which apply to both melee and ranged combat, while Melee includes melee-specific bonuses as well.

JamesDoyle
November 11, 2007, 19:14
Thanks for that!

Hmm, I thought that inches and pounds were most likely, although some of my characters seem to have very odd height/weight combinations!

Status seems to be on a scale of 0-100, is that right? And presumably not linear, so you're much less likely to be royal.

pav
November 11, 2007, 22:20
Where is that Wiki? It certainly is not part of this website. But I would be happy to link to it.

Faust
November 11, 2007, 23:04
I believe he's talking about the one on Anderw's site http://rephial.org/wiki/UserManual

pav
November 11, 2007, 23:15
Aaah! Then it's official :)

JamesDoyle
November 12, 2007, 09:47
Ha, sorry, I'd clicked through and hadn't noticed the domain name change!

takkaria
November 15, 2007, 12:27
I'm currently (re-)writing the pages on character generation, and could do with the following questions being answered:

Can I just ascertain that you are actually rewriting from scratch? If so, there's a chance to get the licencing for the documentation into a better state than it currently is -- I'd like to have it under something less restrictive than the current licence, which counts as non-GPL-compatible...

BTW, it looks like you're doing a great job. :)

JamesDoyle
November 16, 2007, 16:49
Well, I had started making some notes on how I wanted to organise a User Manual, and then realised that someone had already made a start, so I'm reorganising and rewriting as I go along, so it's mostly from scratch, but partly from Leon Merrick's work.

Some of it is separating out different threads of info; for example, what a new user wants is the flavour and an explanation of what to do, not to be hit with obscure terms like 'ego item' and 'pseudo ID' in the initial sections of the guide, but those things need to be in somewhere for when they encounter them.

Thanks for compliment by the way!

And now, to avoid double-posting, for my next questions...:

Is Stealth modified by DEX and/or INTelligence?
What is the difference or connection between the Fighting attribute and the Fighting/Melee modifiers
Presumably the attribute is by STR and DEX?
Ditto for the Shooting attribute and modifiers DEX modified?
Perception, Searching are these modified by WIS or INTelligence?

Pete Mack
November 16, 2007, 17:46
Well, I had started making some notes on how I wanted to organise a User Manual, and then realised that someone had already made a start, so I'm reorganising and rewriting as I go along, so it's mostly from scratch, but partly from Leon Merrick's work.

Some of it is separating out different threads of info; for example, what a new user wants is the flavour and an explanation of what to do, not to be hit with obscure terms like 'ego item' and 'pseudo ID' in the initial sections of the guide, but those things need to be in somewhere for when they encounter them.

Thanks for compliment by the way!

And now, to avoid double-posting, for my next questions...:

Is Stealth modified by DEX and/or INTelligence?
No. It's only modified by equipment.

What is the difference or connection between the Fighting attribute and the Fighting/Melee modifiers
Modifiers are just equipment and str/dex bonuses. Fighting (and shooting) attributes are a summary of the actual underlying value, including race & class contribution. Note that fighting bonuses are multiplied by 3 when calculating their effect against opponent AC, which means that !Hero, ?Bless, and !Berserk have a bigger effect than you might guess at first. Also, AC is discounted by 25% when calculating hits and misses.

Presumably the attribute is by STR and DEX?
Yes.

Ditto for the Shooting attribute and modifiers DEX modified?
Yes. Strength helps too.

Perception, Searching are these modified by WIS or INTelligence?
No. Just by equipment.

JamesDoyle
November 18, 2007, 22:26
Thanks Pete. Interesting, I would have thought perception and searching in particular would be improved by appropriate character stats. I'm learning as I go!

JamesDoyle
November 19, 2007, 14:01
When using the system to generate a character name, where does it grab the syllables from? They look to me like they are elvish elements, possibly from the artifacts; I can't find a file containing them, am I missing it or is it hardcoded somewhere?

takkaria
November 19, 2007, 14:37
When using the system to generate a character name, where does it grab the syllables from? They look to me like they are elvish elements, possibly from the artifacts; I can't find a file containing them, am I missing it or is it hardcoded somewhere?

Hardcoded. For the complete list, see:
http://dev.rephial.org/trac/browser/trunk/src/randname.c

JamesDoyle
November 20, 2007, 21:48
Some of my questions here are due to changes from 3.0.6, the version I've been using :)

It seems the General Store no longer buys from characters; is that true?

The General Store had Word of Recall scrolls when i started a 3.0.9 character - is this a standard item in the GS now? And does that store buy scrolls now?

Is the 'space key to see 2nd page of store inventory' now redundant?

This is much older really, but is there any significance to the colours item names are displayed in? For example, helms, shields, etc., are all brown, and the connection is clear, but staves, ammunition and food are also in brown. Similarly, grey is body armour, but also spikes and digging tools.


And two meta-questions and one comment if Andrew reads this -
can the wiki have sublinks I.e. anchors within a page, not just links to a page)?
is it possible to include images (qwhich would make explanations a lot easier in some parts of the manual
The HowToFormat page refers to being able to do red text, but it doesn't work; it seems to rely on a CSS which isn't present

Big Al
November 20, 2007, 23:13
Some of my questions here are due to changes from 3.0.6, the version I've been using :)

It seems the General Store no longer buys from characters; is that true?True

The General Store had Word of Recall scrolls when i started a 3.0.9 character - is this a standard item in the GS now? And does that store buy scrolls now?The General Store now *always* stocks the same selection of items. (No more recalling to the town and finding no WoR or arrows or oil, etc...) Every time the store restocks, it always makes sure that there's every item.

Is the 'space key to see 2nd page of store inventory' now redundant?If you have a small screen and a big store inventory, the space key still scrolls you down a screen's-height-worth of inventory items (though you could do it slightly longer with arrow keys, etc.).

This is much older really, but is there any significance to the colours item names are displayed in? For example, helms, shields, etc., are all brown, and the connection is clear, but staves, ammunition and food are also in brown. Similarly, grey is body armour, but also spikes and digging tools.There's only sixteen colours in angband and there are more than sixteen different types of items, so there's some duplicate colours. There's no real significance other than grouping certain types of objects together.

JamesDoyle
December 9, 2007, 20:55
Another batch of questions! I'm still mainly playing in 3.0.6, and have been accumulating info while playing that, so if any of this (or what I've added to the wiki) is modified or irrelevant or simpy wrong for 3.0.9, please let me know!

Do characters still get a default weapon? My many game starts in 3.0.9 while checking on character generation seem to have resulted in characters with a varying start weapon. Or have I got confused?

Why does my character (Dunadan Ranger) have knowledge of Swords, Polearms and Hafted Weapons of *Slay Evil* and Slay Troll from the start?

Is it still possible to have 0 HP?

Can sustained characteristics ever be affected? i.e. is it immunity or resistance

What are the breakpoint percentages for the colours of the monster health status?

What is the criterion for a monster becoming afraid due to damage (is it losing a certain amount of HP in one combat turn)?

Are there other wounds besides: Graze; Light Cut; Bad Cut; Nasty Cut; Severe Cut? And if so, where do they come?

When using the mouse for movement, what are the rules for how far away you can click and successfully move?

Think that's all for now!

Thanks

zaimoni
December 10, 2007, 02:12
Is it still possible to have 0 HP?Yes.
Can sustained characteristics ever be affected? i.e. is it immunity or resistanceYes. There is no such thing as resist Time in V.
What are the breakpoint percentages for the colours of the monster health status?Assuming that no status has overridden the colors: 10%, 25%, 60%, 100%.
What is the criterion for a monster becoming afraid due to damage (is it losing a certain amount of HP in one combat turn)?At 10% of max hp, or 50% of current hp in one hit (4 in 5). The "damage cures monster fear" check is made first.
Are there other wounds besides: Graze; Light Cut; Bad Cut; Nasty Cut; Severe Cut? And if so, where do they come?Deep gash and Mortal Wound are even more impressive cuts, with thresholds 200 and 1000 respectively. Mortal wound performs as advertised (0 physical regeneration, including all of hp, stun counter, and cut counter).When using the mouse for movement, what are the rules for how far away you can click and successfully move?Radius 50, path length 250, pathfinding algorithm actually understands what you indicated.

takkaria
December 10, 2007, 19:37
What are the breakpoint percentages for the colours of the monster health status?

That kind of info shouldn't really be in the game manual, just because it might become interface-dependent in future. Other than that, cheers for all the work!

JamesDoyle
December 10, 2007, 22:06
Useful to know, thanks, Andrew.

I hadn't intended it to be first line information as it's out of context for flavour-based instructions, but had thought about putting it in as a secondary page. But I'll hold off on that.

And thanks, Zaimoni, ,for the input. Re mouse movement - 50 and 250 what?

zaimoni
December 11, 2007, 00:49
And thanks, Zaimoni, ,for the input. Re mouse movement - 50 and 250 what?Distance is from the V distance function ((delta-y)+(delta-x))/2, where /2 is an integer division.

That is, the pathfinder won't even try to navigate all the way across the map.

If no running-legal path can get there in 250 moves, it won't try to move you. [Note that this means the pathfinder won't cut corners, as that option has been removed from recent V and forced false.]

JamesDoyle
January 30, 2008, 23:14
OK, I'm back - it's been a while, as Christmas and various other things got in the way, plus I've been playing the current version a bit to get a feel for how to write the upcoming sections, and also hopefully either answer some questions myself or find out they've been rendered irrelevant by changes to the game.

So, here goes:

Is there a list somewhere of items that are always in stock? If it's not obviously available to players/characters, then I don't need to refer to it in the Manual, but point me to it if it's there.

I know what PLite does, but what is it short for? And while we're on PLite, the Phial of Galadriel doesn't flag this attribute on the status screen, but surely it should (this confused be greatly when trying to understand PLite)?

A question on overall approach to writing the Manual: so far, I've been trying very hard to separate the player from the character, so when I say 'You' I mean the player. This means, obviously, that it is at times quite unwieldy/inelegant as I hav to keep saying 'Your character will' or 'He or she will'. What do people feel - should this separation be maintained, or would you prefer to see the two merged so I would refer to 'You' throughout?

I've come across the new (to me) flag 'Amnesiac'. This went away after a while and my character regained knowledge of what he was carrying, although the cause of the Amnesia (Angamaite, IIRC) used to cause permanent memory loss. Is Amnesia always temporary now, or was I lucky? And can it still be partial (my characters often retained memory of some artifacts through this), or is it a tradeoff that it's now temporary but total.

On object knowledge, my characters seem to start with some knowledge of ego items. Note that I don't mean retained knowledge from previous generations in the save file, but even when starting a blank character the first time I used 3.0.9, he/she knew about two or three ego items. Is this a feature now, or is it a bug?

Talking of bugs (which should probably go elsewhere, I know, but I'm on a roll) I noticed that picking up batches of unidentified bolts, they merged into a single item in the inventory. This has always happened with pebbles, in my experience, but bolts used to be like arrows, and each unidentified batch was separate until known to be the same (arrows still do this). I noticed that at one point I did get a separate batch in the inventory, which turned out to be enchanted - the merged batches were of course all 0,0. I suspect this isn't supposed to happen...

That's all my questions, but playing and writing the manual has spurred me on to identify some feature requests and enhancements I'd like to propose. I'll post these elsewhere, as requested by Andrew

takkaria
January 31, 2008, 00:24
Is there a list somewhere of items that are always in stock? If it's not obviously available to players/characters, then I don't need to refer to it in the Manual, but point me to it if it's there.

http://dev.rephial.org/trac/browser/trunk/src/store.c#L1319

I know what PLite does, but what is it short for? And while we're on PLite, the Phial of Galadriel doesn't flag this attribute on the status screen, but surely it should (this confused be greatly when trying to understand PLite)?

"player light", I believe. Gladriel should flag it up, yeah, and Eddie's patched version fixes this -- I should be importing that before the next release.

A question on overall approach to writing the Manual: so far, I've been trying very hard to separate the player from the character, so when I say 'You' I mean the player. This means, obviously, that it is at times quite unwieldy/inelegant as I hav to keep saying 'Your character will' or 'He or she will'. What do people feel - should this separation be maintained, or would you prefer to see the two merged so I would refer to 'You' throughout?

I think the game has been pretty loose with this in the past, and I can't see that changing -- even the source confuses the player with the character. People understand what you mean, so just use whatever feels most comfortable.

I've come across the new (to me) flag 'Amnesiac'. This went away after a while and my character regained knowledge of what he was carrying, although the cause of the Amnesia (Angamaite, IIRC) used to cause permanent memory loss. Is Amnesia always temporary now, or was I lucky? And can it still be partial (my characters often retained memory of some artifacts through this), or is it a tradeoff that it's now temporary but total.

It's always temporary, and it no longer causes any permanent memory loss. It cuts in half you chance of casting spells or using rods, wands, or staffs correctly.

On object knowledge, my characters seem to start with some knowledge of ego items. Note that I don't mean retained knowledge from previous generations in the save file, but even when starting a blank character the first time I used 3.0.9, he/she knew about two or three ego items. Is this a feature now, or is it a bug?

If you've been looking around the shops, that explains it. Otherwise, it's a bug.

Talking of bugs (which should probably go elsewhere, I know, but I'm on a roll) I noticed that picking up batches of unidentified bolts, they merged into a single item in the inventory. This has always happened with pebbles, in my experience, but bolts used to be like arrows, and each unidentified batch was separate until known to be the same (arrows still do this). I noticed that at one point I did get a separate batch in the inventory, which turned out to be enchanted - the merged batches were of course all 0,0. I suspect this isn't supposed to happen...

This is completely intentional, if you're playing the nightly builds.

Djabanete
January 31, 2008, 02:06
"player light", I believe.

I figured it was Permanent Light.

takkaria
January 31, 2008, 07:27
I figured it was Permanent Light.

I defer to the gentleman more knowledgeable about these things than I. :)

JamesDoyle
January 31, 2008, 15:12
This is completely intentional, if you're playing the nightly builds.

So bolts are different to arrows now? Or will arrows merge batches in a future update?

It's a bit of a giveaway, now you know that merged batches are almost certainly +0,+0

And if I need to read the code to see what's in stock, I guess it's not common knowledge!

Thanks, Adnrew, very helpful

takkaria
January 31, 2008, 17:32
So bolts are different to arrows now? Or will arrows merge batches in a future update?

All unidentified items that would stack if identified will stack.

It's a bit of a giveaway, now you know that merged batches are almost certainly +0,+0

That's half the point... the other half is so that you don't end up with 3 piles of {average} arrows.

Swede2378
January 31, 2008, 21:18
In the manual it states clearly that certain race/class combinations are not allowed, and when generating a character these combinations are darker in color, but they are still allowed... is there a penalty for choosing, for example, a Dunadin Rogue? Or should this not be allowed at all?

Big Al
February 1, 2008, 18:26
There's no penalty nor anything from preventing the player to play it - it's just a 'for advanced users only' warning. That should probably be changed in the manual.

will_asher
February 1, 2008, 19:12
I think combos like dunadain rogue, high elf priest or paladin, or dwarf ranger should be disabled and not just greyed out. Some combos only available in variants should definetly be disabled: shadow fairy knight, ent mage..

No ent ever should be willing to cast a fire bolt/ball spell (or maybe even use torches).

Djabanete
February 1, 2008, 19:59
I think combos like dunadain rogue, high elf priest or paladin, or dwarf ranger should be disabled and not just greyed out. Some combos only available in variants should definetly be disabled: shadow fairy knight, ent mage..

No ent ever should be willing to cast a fire bolt/ball spell (or maybe even use torches).

Some people might like these combinations. Why spoil their fun?

zaimoni
February 1, 2008, 21:34
There's no penalty nor anything from preventing the player to play it - it's just a 'for advanced users only' warning. That should probably be changed in the manual.Most of the 'for advanced users' warnings are for game mechanics reasons; the graying out is to indicate they're ironman-ish classes. [Try a V dwarf or half-troll mage: theoretical maximum starting intelligence is pathetic.]

Dunadan rogue has no particular game mechanics issues, however; it's just a flavor thing.

Pete Mack
February 7, 2008, 00:25
Most of the 'for advanced users' warnings are for game mechanics reasons; the graying out is to indicate they're ironman-ish classes. [Try a V dwarf or half-troll mage: theoretical maximum starting intelligence is pathetic.]

Dunadan rogue has no particular game mechanics issues, however; it's just a flavor thing.

Actually, V Dwarf Mage isn't too bad. The extra strength and con, along with good device skill, allows you to go pretty far with rods and wands for offense. i've never tried Half-Troll mage, but there are quite a few on the ladder. As for Rogue, High-Elf Rogue is a relatively easy class. I agree, it is grayed out only for flavor, not for any difficulty.

Of the less popular mage races, there are 13 Half-Troll, 14 Half-Orc 17 Dwarf, 15 Kobold, 30 Half-Elf. and 33 Human. That's not a very big difference in popularity.

(In comparison, there are 237 High-Elf, 45 Elf, and 42 Dunadan mages.)