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z118
January 17, 2008, 03:57
Are there any "bad" artifacts that a player might ever want to actually use? On a recent trip down I hit a nice vault and found both the Whip of Gothmog and the Blade of Chaos Doomcaller.

Some of the cursed artifacts are kind of a mystery to me as I can't imagine anyone accidentally using them; it seems to me by the time you get to the point where you might find them you would be ID'ing everything anyway. So are they just sort of a novelty?

I wish there was a 9th building on the town level - a museum where you could donate the noteworthy stuff you have found that you can't use or don't need to sell. Maybe have it so that once you donated the item it would stay on display and you couldn't get it back. I like finding these odd items and it kind of pains me to just leave them lying on the dungeon floor somewhere.

Djabanete
January 17, 2008, 06:29
Are there any "bad" artifacts that a player might ever want to actually use? On a recent trip down I hit a nice vault and found both the Whip of Gothmog and the Blade of Chaos Doomcaller.

Some of the cursed artifacts are kind of a mystery to me as I can't imagine anyone accidentally using them; it seems to me by the time you get to the point where you might find them you would be ID'ing everything anyway. So are they just sort of a novelty?

In Vanilla at least, the bad artifacts are just that - bad. Doomcaller is *almost* good enough to use, but I find the huge AC penalty to be too serious a drawback. The problem is that there are plenty of weapons out there that also deal massive damage and that don't have enormous drawbacks, and they are found at the same depth. I always thought Doomcaller looked cool but it just doesn't cut it.

I agree, it's a shame to have to leave that kind of thing behind... but you know you're never gonna use it, so what's the point in lugging it around? I complained about that in this thread (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=293&).


I wish there was a 9th building on the town level - a museum where you could donate the noteworthy stuff you have found that you can't use or don't need to sell. Maybe have it so that once you donated the item it would stay on display and you couldn't get it back. I like finding these odd items and it kind of pains me to just leave them lying on the dungeon floor somewhere.

Some variants have a Museum exactly as you describe. Vanilla doesn't have one.

Paffa
January 17, 2008, 22:09
Are there any "bad" artifacts that a player might ever want to actually use?

One word: Calris. :cool:

Djabanete
January 18, 2008, 02:17
One word: Calris. :cool:

It's the only one though.

Mondkalb
January 18, 2008, 07:32
Three words ;):
The One Ring.

AR_chie
January 18, 2008, 07:56
One word: Calris. :cool:

- Chainsword
- in earlier versions also Terror Mask

Djabanete
January 19, 2008, 01:03
Three words ;):
The One Ring.

"Cannot be removed" is hardly a drawback when applied to an item you'd never want to remove anyway...and aggravation is somewhat inconsequential if you're as super-powered as that. The XP drain is negligible.

I see your point, but c'mon, we're talking about items with *actual* drawbacks ;)

Nick
January 19, 2008, 01:18
I see your point, but c'mon, we're talking about items with *actual* drawbacks ;)


Having just had a look, only Mormegil is really useless (although Camlost and Beruthiel are close). Most of the cursed arts are unlikely to be useful, but I wouldn't call them useless.

HallucinationMushroom
January 19, 2008, 02:09
The Spear of Melkor is cursed but has tempting resistances. Another one that comes to mind is Wormtongue's soft leather boots, though they aren't cursed but have penalties to hit and damage... *shudder*. The Iron Crown of Morgoth is good too, but that sort of falls under the same category as the one ring.

Mondkalb
January 19, 2008, 05:50
Having just had a look, only Mormegil is really useless (although Camlost and Beruthiel are close). Most of the cursed arts are unlikely to be useful, but I wouldn't call them useless.

I just found Mormegil yesterday. BAAAHH! It was a drop from errr - can't remember, some unique I think. Who needs that? ^^

Pete Mack
February 14, 2008, 00:46
I have used or at least kept all of the following at one point or another:
- Whip of Gothmog: (used) fire immunity before finding Narya can be very useful; with Narya available, it's useless.
- Calris: (used) One of the best weapons in the game.
- Doomcaller: (used) (not cursed in V.) Another of the best weapons in the game. It is fantastic vs Azriel. The -50 AC doesn't matter much once you are already near AC 200. If you are playing a Mage-school spellcaster, the Shield spell nullifies it.
- Spear of Melkor: it's ok, but it's rare and a little light in damage.
- One Ring: never found it. :(
- Gorlim: melee (+8,+8). I've tried to use it, but I've never been able to use a helmet without any resists or stat bonuses.

I've never bothered keeping any of the others. -5 CON, melee(-8,-8), etc are just too awful.

aeneas
February 14, 2008, 09:51
In Vanilla at least, the bad artifacts are just that - bad. Doomcaller is *almost* good enough to use,

Doomcaller is definitely good enough to use- it's pretty great actually. By the time you find it your AC is usually high enough that you can afford to lose the 50. Against most things, killing power > AC, within reason. Aggravation is the bigger problem. If you are too deep to survive with constant aggravation it still makes for one hell of a swap.

Taha
February 8, 2010, 21:27
I've used the Boots of Wormtongue as a mage before, for a good 30+ dlvls, which is about as long as any early gear lasts. The +3 int, speed, stealth and dexterity override the loss of damage for a low level mage.
With some of these, its all about what character you are and when you find it. The speed alone can make it worthwhile for even non mage characters; being at -1 speed is killer, +3 helps early. Better than a ring of escaping as your only speed source.
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emulord
February 9, 2010, 21:16
I really wish Mormegil was at least somewhat useful. Even after enchanting it, and even though the -10 speed could be nullified by another speed ring, the combo of needing to enchant / aggro / loss of ring slot isnt ever worth it.

shawnosullivan
February 10, 2010, 17:18
mormegil can be the basically best weapon in the game in ToME, even with its ancient foul curse. i think once curses are reworked in V, we'll see some cool late-game uber power artifacts with interestingly nasty drawbacks.