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Zero
January 20, 2008, 03:27
Gameplay question:

I haven't made humans before, and they're annoying at the beginning because they don't get see invisible or infravision.

What's the best way to get see invisible, or at least some permanent infravision, on a human? Wait for a Ring of See Invisible on the black market? Or maybe sell wands and staves until you have enough to buy *Slay* Undead, Defender, or Westernesse?

Right now, I try to get a !Detect Invisible ASAP, then use ?Detect Invisible to see where I'll need to use it.

d1sc0nnected
January 20, 2008, 06:25
Usually I just run around until I hit and kill any early level ghosts, as they are most often an annoyance rather than a threat. By the time I get to levels where I need it, I have usually found a =see invis or something..

Djabanete
January 20, 2008, 08:00
Priests and Paladins get a Detect Evil spell which reveals ghosts.

The first ghost that is at all dangerous is the Moaning Spirit, which appears at depth 12 and drains Dexterity. Lost Souls appear earlier and they can drain Wisdom, but only Priests and Paladins care about that and they have the aforementioned spell to help them avoid that. So basically the question is how to deal with Moaning Spirits... I suggest Staves of Detect Evil/Invisible or Potions of Detect Invisible. Scrolls aren't too useful since they're one-shot.

Non-ghost invisible creatures aren't much of a problem. If they "crawl on you", they're centipedes; if they "claw you" and "bite you", they're hounds; and if they "release spores at you", they're clear mushroom patches, which breed explosively. None of these can pass through walls and thus are easier to dispatch than ghosts.

For a long time I played nothing but human warriors, so I got used to avoiding invisible nasties. Even the nasty ghosts tend to move eratically, so you can usually just run away.

EDIT: Obviously, See Invisible is a huge early game priority, so buy those Rings of SI, headgear of Seeing, etc.

Zero
January 21, 2008, 00:31
Smeagol aggravates me to no end, especially since he takes the very thing I need to deal with him--gold so I can buy something with see invisible. And Slimer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slimer#Slimer)'s habit of eating my food presents possible starvation problems.

Djabanete
January 21, 2008, 02:00
If you drop your food, the ghost can't get at it. So any one ghost should only be able to eat one ration (enough to alert you to its presence). That shouldn't cause you to starve.

Green glutton ghosts don't pick up objects so you'll be fine even if you need to walk off your square to kill the ghost.

Zero
January 21, 2008, 02:27
My level 25 Human Ranger just took out a lesser vault on DL16 without free action or see invisible (new character nickname: Balls of Steel). I now don't need see invisible as much because my RANGER can cast the LEVEL TWENTY-FIVE spell Detect Invisible.

Here is a list of the things I have found, without finding ANYTHING that gives see invisible:

Iron Helm of Intelligence [5,+7] (+2) {DL16 Lesser Vault}
Small Leather Shield of Elvenkind [2,+3](+1 stealth) {Resist Shards, Black Market}
Wand of Teleport Other (9 charges) {DL16 Lesser Vault}
Long Bow of Power (x3) (+9,+14) {Black Market}
RING OF SPEED (+5) {floor, DL10}

Ridiculous? I think so.

[EDIT] Do not mess with the RNG. Ever. I just died to a Moaning Spirit, partly because I didn't realize the dex loss was accompanied by actual damage. Nothing else around, already read the ?WoR, !Healing in inventory, and I sat there hitting 5 because I didn't realize I was taking damage.

[Angband 3.0.9 Character Dump]

Name Ranger Self RB CB EB Best
Sex Male Age 18 STR: 17 +0 +2 +0 18/10
Race Human Height 68 INT: 10 +0 +2 +2 14
Class Ranger Weight 164 WIS: 10 +0 +0 +0 10
Title Tracker Status 16 Dex: 17 +0 +1 +0 18 4
HP -1/160 Maximize Y CON: 13 +0 +1 +0 14
SP 4/26 CHR: 10 +0 +1 +0 11

Level 25 Armor [7,+7] Saving Throw Superb
Cur Exp 18147 Fight (-1,+10) Stealth Good
Max Exp 18147 Melee (+8,+16) Fighting Superb
Adv Exp 22750 Shoot (+8,+14) Shooting Heroic
MaxDepth Lev 16 Blows 1/turn Disarming Very Good
Turns 1035847 Shots 2/turn Magic Device Superb
Gold 20205 Infra 10 ft Perception Fair
Burden 44.3 lbs Speed 5 Searching Fair

You are one of several children of a Serf. You are a credit to the
family. You have green eyes, curly blond hair, and an average
complexion.


abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
Acid:........+.... Blind:.............
Elec:........+.... Confu:.............
Fire:........+.... Sound:.............
Cold:........+.... Shard:........+....
Pois:............. Nexus:.............
Fear:............. Nethr:.............
Lite:............. Chaos:.............
Dark:............. Disen:.............

abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
S.Dig:............. Stea.:........+....
Feath:............. Sear.:.............
PLite:............. Infra:....+........
Regen:............. Tunn.:.............
Telep:............. Speed:...+.........
Invis:............. Blows:.............
FrAct:............. Shots:.............
HLife:............. Might:.............


[Last Messages]

> You are too afraid to attack it!
> It wails at you.
> You stand your ground!
> It touches you.
> You feel very clumsy.
> It wails at you.
> You stand your ground!
> It touches you.
> There is a wall in the way!
> It wails at you.
> It touches you.
> It wails at you.
> You stand your ground!
> It touches you.
> You die.


[Character Equipment]

a) a Rapier of Slay Troll (1d6) (+9,+6)
It slays trolls.
b) a Long Bow of Power (x3) (+9,+14)
c) a Ring of Damage (+8)
d) a Ring of Speed (+5)
It increases your speed by 5.
e) an Amulet of Infravision (+1)
It increases your infravision by 1.
f) a Lantern (10666 turns)
It usually provides light of radius 2. It cannot be harmed by fire.

g) (nothing)
h) (nothing)
i) a Small Leather Shield of Elvenkind [2,+3] (+1 to stealth)
It increases your stealth by 1. It provides resistance to acid,
lightning, fire, cold, and shards. It cannot be harmed by the
elements.
j) an Iron Helm of Intelligence [5,+7] (+2)
It increases your intelligence by 2. It sustains your intelligence.

k) (nothing)
l) (nothing)


[Character Inventory]

a) a Book of Magic Spells [Magic for Beginners] {@m1@b1}
b) a Book of Magic Spells [Conjurings and Tricks] {@m2@b2}
c) a Book of Magic Spells [Incantations and Illusions] {@m3@b3}
d) 3 Potions of Detect Invisible
e) a Potion of Healing
f) 3 Scrolls of Word of Recall
g) a Wand of Teleport Other (9 charges)
h) a Staff of Teleportation (8 charges)


[Home Inventory]

a) a Potion of Restore Mana
b) a Wand of Heal Monster (13 charges)
c) a Ring of Strength (+3)
It increases your strength by 3. It sustains your strength.


[Options]

Adult: Maximize effect of race/class bonuses : yes (adult_maximize)
Adult: Randomize some of the artifacts (beta): no (adult_randarts)
Adult: Auto-scum for good levels : yes (adult_autoscum)
Adult: Restrict the use of stairs/recall : no (adult_ironman)
Adult: Restrict the use of stores/home : no (adult_no_stores)
Adult: Restrict creation of artifacts : no (adult_no_artifacts)
Adult: Don't stack objects on the floor : no (adult_no_stacking)
Adult: Preserve artifacts when leaving level : no (adult_no_preserve)
Adult: Don't generate connected stairs : yes (adult_no_stairs)
Adult: Monsters chase current location : yes (adult_ai_sound)
Adult: Monsters chase recent locations : yes (adult_ai_smell)
Adult: Monsters act smarter in groups : yes (adult_ai_packs)
Adult: Monsters learn from their mistakes : no (adult_ai_learn)
Adult: Monsters exploit players weaknesses : no (adult_ai_cheat)
Adult: Monsters behave more intelligently (broken): no (adult_ai_smart)
Score: Peek into object creation : no (score_peek)
Score: Peek into monster creation : no (score_hear)
Score: Peek into dungeon creation : no (score_room)
Score: Peek into something else : no (score_xtra)
Score: Know complete monster info : no (score_know)
Score: Allow player to avoid death : no (score_live)

will_asher
January 21, 2008, 03:56
Here is a list of the things I have found:

Iron Helm of Intelligence [5,+7] (+2) {DL16 Lesser Vault}
Small Leather Shield of Elvenkind [2,+3](+1 stealth) {Resist Shards, Black Market}
Wand of Teleport Other (9 charges) {DL16 Lesser Vault}
Long Bow of Power (x3) (+9,+14) {Black Market}
RING OF SPEED (+5) {floor, DL10}

Ridiculous? I think so.

[EDIT] Do not mess with the RNG. Ever. I just died to a Moaning Spirit, partly because I didn't realize the dex loss was accompanied by actual damage. Nothing else around, already read the ?WoR, !Healing in inventory, and I sat there hitting 5 because I didn't realize I was taking damage.

I started crying when I read this (not quote-literally, but close). Of all the frustrating stories I've heard, this one might be the worst cause I can relate. I so hate it when I mess up badly and have absolutly nothing to blame it one but my own stupidity. and I have a very flatulent brain..

EDIT: of course I meant to say "not quite literally" but I decided not to fix it cause the messup looks funny. It's good to laugh at yourself..

Mondkalb
January 21, 2008, 10:03
@Zero
Somewhere in the otions menu (=) you can set the warning level for hitpoint loss. I prefer 20% or so - you get a warning + nerving sound alert if your char's hitpoints drop below.

zaimoni
January 21, 2008, 15:25
My default preference for hp warning is 70%. I really do want to notice if @ can die in one more turn without immediate evasive action, and 50% just isn't high enough. I'd temporarily set it lower only if I had taken the time to calculate the actual maximum damage rate (which is almost never).

However, I'm not certain that would have addressed Zero's problem. He knew he was getting hit, he just miscalculated how fast the damage was accumulating.

(Watching hp wouldn't be enough; V's design preference for CRPG over wargame means the critical information for calculating maximum damage rate is intentionally hidden by the monster memory until you don't really need it anymore.

OTOH, was the Moaning Spirit in a wall? Contrary to some misinformation I put on RGRA, in V walls immunize passwall monsters to LoS spells as well as ball spells, bolt spells, and physical missiles. Leaving melee as the only option, which fear takes out.

Fortunately, in V the Moaning Spirit won't *stay* in the wall if you walk away from it.)

Zero
January 21, 2008, 16:04
I started crying when I read this (not quote-literally, but close). Of all the frustrating stories I've heard, this one might be the worst cause I can relate.

This is without a doubt not only the most astonishingly stupid character death I've ever experienced, but also worse than any other I've ever heard of. Just looking back on my character dump, I notice that I had three !Detect Invisible in inventory that I was saving to deal with exactly this kind of problem. I had already killed Smeagol, so I don't know why I decided to flee the level instead of popping one of the three potions I had. I had a ring of speed from DL10 and I sat there and let myself get moaned to death. Unbelievable.

I used to set HP warning to 50%, but stopped using it in favor of the new (to me) @-coloring. Another monster knocked me into dark red and I ran away to ?WoR in an already cleared room. Since there were no monsters around except the Moaning Spirit, I thought I'd be safe from damage. Like I said, I didn't realize the dex loss was accompanied by actual damage. If I had the HP warning set, I would have realized my HP was dropping.

Pete Mack
February 13, 2008, 01:52
This is without a doubt not only the most astonishingly stupid character death I've ever experienced, but also worse than any other I've ever heard of. Just looking back on my character dump, I notice that I had three !Detect Invisible in inventory that I was saving to deal with exactly this kind of problem. I had already killed Smeagol, so I don't know why I decided to flee the level instead of popping one of the three potions I had. I had a ring of speed from DL10 and I sat there and let myself get moaned to death. Unbelievable.

I used to set HP warning to 50%, but stopped using it in favor of the new (to me) @-coloring. Another monster knocked me into dark red and I ran away to ?WoR in an already cleared room. Since there were no monsters around except the Moaning Spirit, I thought I'd be safe from damage. Like I said, I didn't realize the dex loss was accompanied by actual damage. If I had the HP warning set, I would have realized my HP was dropping.

Losing that RoSpeed(+5) is really a bummer.

I really just wanted to mention that there is one other good source of See Invisible that is often overlooked: a Bow (or Sling) of the Nazgul. You really don't want to drop {worthless} missile weapons. Instead, remove the curse and eventually enchant them up to be just like a regular bow, but with SI (and drain EXP, but nobody cares about that.) If you are stuck with a sling, or you have a good ego bow, you may need to use a swap.

aeneas
February 14, 2008, 10:00
(new character nickname: Balls of Steel). OK.. too much Duke Nuke'em, or too much youtube? ;)

[EDIT] Do not mess with the RNG. Ever. I just died to a Moaning Spirit, partly because I didn't realize the dex loss was accompanied by actual damage.

So don't do that... I don't see what that has to do with the RNG. The first thing you hit that you _absolutely_, _positively_ must have SI for is Dreads. They will rip you up in a hurry if you have no SI or ESP.

Garrie
February 19, 2008, 13:14
So don't do that... I don't see what that has to do with the RNG. The first thing you hit that you _absolutely_, _positively_ must have SI for is Dreads. They will rip you up in a hurry if you have no SI or ESP.


I gotta strongly agree with this, Dreads are my most common cause of dying at a stage when I should have SI but just DON'T!!
Garrie.