sethos

December 13, 2011, 02:31

Please forgive me for the length of the post below. I started working on this and couldn't put it down, so please let me know what your thoughts are.

I'd like to propose a major overhaul to how blows are calculated, that will most certailnly be unpopular, but would likely provide a good balance and also help to make heavy weapons far more useful for warrior types early on (and even a bit more useful @ endgame).

Blow calculations:

these should use five factors: strength / dexterity / weapon weight / Character level / extra blows (Items).

Really, the primary difference here is the use of clvl in the calculations. Should a level 1 fighter be able to swing ANY weapon 6 times? I don't think so. But as that fighter gains experience, he becomes more effective with his weapons, and can begin to get in extra swings against his foes.

I would recommend using only one set of formulas, that would place the normal maximum for blows @ 5. Warriors would have an inherent class benefit of +1 blows, and mage types currently limited to four blows would have an inherent class penalty of -1 blows, and weapons with +blows would also modify this number. (a warrior with a +2blows weapon would have a maximum of 8 blows.)

Here are my proposed formulas (which could later be tweaked, of course)

Clvl:

Your real maximum number of blows should be multiplied by a combination of (Clvl*.1+.50) and a modifier based on your dex to give you your actual number of blows (before weapon weight is factored).

Dexterity:

Okay, Here's a rant, because I'm a little grey on exactly what this should be:

Not sure exactly, but 10 dex should mean that even 8 maximum blows would be reduced to only 1 (.125 or thereabouts) and 40 (MAX) dex should be helpful as your character levels up, but less so @ maximum level. So, some formula or set of values where 10 gives a minimum result of .125 and 40 (18/***) gives a result of 1.25 or greater. a result of "1" should be around the 18/150 mark (between 32 and 34, I'd think) lets call this DexMod. here is where I'd start, though I think it's probably too harsh on the low side and a little too generous at the top:

dex 1-5 = dex*.01 (5 = .05)

dex 6-10 = (dex-5)*.015+.05 (10 = .125)

dex 11-15 = (dex-10)*.02+.125 (15 = .225)

dex 16-20 = (dex-15)*.03+.225 (20 or 18/20 = .375) warrior gets 2.2 blows @ clvl 50

dex 21-25 = (dex-20)*.04+.375 (25 or 18/70 = .575) warrior gets 3.4 blows @ clvl 50

dex 26-40 = (dex-25)*.05+.575 (30 or 18/120 = .825) warrior gets 4.9 blows @ clvl 50

(35 or 18/170 = 1.075) warrior gets 6 blows @ clvl 44

(40 or 18/*** = 1.325) warrior gets 6 blows @ clvl 25

Maximum weapon weight should be as follows:

Str 1-10 max weight = str*.5 lbs (min 3 str @ clvl 1 could still use a whip @ 1.2 lbs.) ( str 10 = 5 lbs.)

Str 11-20 (18/20) max weight = (str-10)*1+5 lbs. (str 18/20 = 15 lbs)

Str (18/30) 21-30 (18/120) = (str-20)*1.5+15 lbs. (Str 18/120 = 30 lbs)

str (18/130) 31-40 (18/***) = (str-30)*2+30 lbs. (max str could wield weapons up to 50 lbs, and still get max # of blows)

if weapon weight exceeds max weight, you get a str penalty to blows: Max weight / weapon weight) example: max strength would have a max weight of 50, grond weighs in @ 100 lbs, so 50/100 = .5 that would mean that yours blows are multiplied by .5 (or halved, for you non-numbers folks.) otherwise, this number would be 1. for my purposes, lets call this number StrMod

FORMULA HERE*****

All of these factors combined could look like this:

MaxBlows*DexMod*(clvl*.01+.5) = Blows (Rounded Down to the nearest tenth of a blow)

This number should be checked and adjusted to these constraints: Minimum = 1, maximum = maxblows

then, run it through the strength check:

Blows*StrMod = RealBlows (if the result here is less than 1, the weapon is currently unwieldable.

what do you think about this? The results of it would be very dramatic, so perhaps this idea could be toned down a bit, while still being useful.

Effectively, NO ONE would get more than 1.1~1.2 blows at the start of the game, and most characters will not get over 2 blows until they managed to get to statgain or stack some +dex items and/or a weapon with +blows in the early game. Rogues would be the first to get their extra blows, just before warriors (albeit with lighter weapons than warriors.) and starting "Strong" characters could wield most any weapon they can find, while "weak" characters would be unable to wield most of the really heavy weapons at the start of the game, and might only get 1-2 blows with a very heavy weapon near endgame. By the time warriors get extra blows, they SHOULD be able to use just about any weapon they please and still get their maximum # of swings. endgame changes would be that a max strength character would be able to get maximum blows with any weapon under 50 lbs (read: mace of disruption), and dex over 18/160 would cease to be useful for extra blows @Clvl50. This would be a large starting penalty to warrior types that would disappear as they level up/hit statgain, with an endgame reward for them near the endgame (1 more blow with heavy weapons, in most cases).

Please: let me know what you think about this, or let me know if it's unclear. I'd also love to see what str/dex/level combinations would grant certain numbers of blows, and Just don't have the patience to calculate it out beyond what I did to try to hone in my numbers. and, of course, someone might be able to come up with a more effecient formula that would net (nearly or exactly) the same results.

Extremes:

Wielding Grond would take a minimum strength @ lvl 50 for 1 blow of 18/90 for mage types, 18/40 for warriors, and 18/60 for others. stat gain would put a hobbit mage @ 18/30 strength after statgain with no +str items. I think that works out just fine, with very weak characters unable to wield very heavy weapons, even @ endgame.

I'd like to propose a major overhaul to how blows are calculated, that will most certailnly be unpopular, but would likely provide a good balance and also help to make heavy weapons far more useful for warrior types early on (and even a bit more useful @ endgame).

Blow calculations:

these should use five factors: strength / dexterity / weapon weight / Character level / extra blows (Items).

Really, the primary difference here is the use of clvl in the calculations. Should a level 1 fighter be able to swing ANY weapon 6 times? I don't think so. But as that fighter gains experience, he becomes more effective with his weapons, and can begin to get in extra swings against his foes.

I would recommend using only one set of formulas, that would place the normal maximum for blows @ 5. Warriors would have an inherent class benefit of +1 blows, and mage types currently limited to four blows would have an inherent class penalty of -1 blows, and weapons with +blows would also modify this number. (a warrior with a +2blows weapon would have a maximum of 8 blows.)

Here are my proposed formulas (which could later be tweaked, of course)

Clvl:

Your real maximum number of blows should be multiplied by a combination of (Clvl*.1+.50) and a modifier based on your dex to give you your actual number of blows (before weapon weight is factored).

Dexterity:

Okay, Here's a rant, because I'm a little grey on exactly what this should be:

Not sure exactly, but 10 dex should mean that even 8 maximum blows would be reduced to only 1 (.125 or thereabouts) and 40 (MAX) dex should be helpful as your character levels up, but less so @ maximum level. So, some formula or set of values where 10 gives a minimum result of .125 and 40 (18/***) gives a result of 1.25 or greater. a result of "1" should be around the 18/150 mark (between 32 and 34, I'd think) lets call this DexMod. here is where I'd start, though I think it's probably too harsh on the low side and a little too generous at the top:

dex 1-5 = dex*.01 (5 = .05)

dex 6-10 = (dex-5)*.015+.05 (10 = .125)

dex 11-15 = (dex-10)*.02+.125 (15 = .225)

dex 16-20 = (dex-15)*.03+.225 (20 or 18/20 = .375) warrior gets 2.2 blows @ clvl 50

dex 21-25 = (dex-20)*.04+.375 (25 or 18/70 = .575) warrior gets 3.4 blows @ clvl 50

dex 26-40 = (dex-25)*.05+.575 (30 or 18/120 = .825) warrior gets 4.9 blows @ clvl 50

(35 or 18/170 = 1.075) warrior gets 6 blows @ clvl 44

(40 or 18/*** = 1.325) warrior gets 6 blows @ clvl 25

Maximum weapon weight should be as follows:

Str 1-10 max weight = str*.5 lbs (min 3 str @ clvl 1 could still use a whip @ 1.2 lbs.) ( str 10 = 5 lbs.)

Str 11-20 (18/20) max weight = (str-10)*1+5 lbs. (str 18/20 = 15 lbs)

Str (18/30) 21-30 (18/120) = (str-20)*1.5+15 lbs. (Str 18/120 = 30 lbs)

str (18/130) 31-40 (18/***) = (str-30)*2+30 lbs. (max str could wield weapons up to 50 lbs, and still get max # of blows)

if weapon weight exceeds max weight, you get a str penalty to blows: Max weight / weapon weight) example: max strength would have a max weight of 50, grond weighs in @ 100 lbs, so 50/100 = .5 that would mean that yours blows are multiplied by .5 (or halved, for you non-numbers folks.) otherwise, this number would be 1. for my purposes, lets call this number StrMod

FORMULA HERE*****

All of these factors combined could look like this:

MaxBlows*DexMod*(clvl*.01+.5) = Blows (Rounded Down to the nearest tenth of a blow)

This number should be checked and adjusted to these constraints: Minimum = 1, maximum = maxblows

then, run it through the strength check:

Blows*StrMod = RealBlows (if the result here is less than 1, the weapon is currently unwieldable.

what do you think about this? The results of it would be very dramatic, so perhaps this idea could be toned down a bit, while still being useful.

Effectively, NO ONE would get more than 1.1~1.2 blows at the start of the game, and most characters will not get over 2 blows until they managed to get to statgain or stack some +dex items and/or a weapon with +blows in the early game. Rogues would be the first to get their extra blows, just before warriors (albeit with lighter weapons than warriors.) and starting "Strong" characters could wield most any weapon they can find, while "weak" characters would be unable to wield most of the really heavy weapons at the start of the game, and might only get 1-2 blows with a very heavy weapon near endgame. By the time warriors get extra blows, they SHOULD be able to use just about any weapon they please and still get their maximum # of swings. endgame changes would be that a max strength character would be able to get maximum blows with any weapon under 50 lbs (read: mace of disruption), and dex over 18/160 would cease to be useful for extra blows @Clvl50. This would be a large starting penalty to warrior types that would disappear as they level up/hit statgain, with an endgame reward for them near the endgame (1 more blow with heavy weapons, in most cases).

Please: let me know what you think about this, or let me know if it's unclear. I'd also love to see what str/dex/level combinations would grant certain numbers of blows, and Just don't have the patience to calculate it out beyond what I did to try to hone in my numbers. and, of course, someone might be able to come up with a more effecient formula that would net (nearly or exactly) the same results.

Extremes:

Wielding Grond would take a minimum strength @ lvl 50 for 1 blow of 18/90 for mage types, 18/40 for warriors, and 18/60 for others. stat gain would put a hobbit mage @ 18/30 strength after statgain with no +str items. I think that works out just fine, with very weak characters unable to wield very heavy weapons, even @ endgame.