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View Full Version : [Feature Request] Storekeeper ID modifications


pesachyonah
January 31, 2008, 19:29
I mentioned these offhand in a different post about selling cursed items, but perhaps this is a better place.

I have two minor realism gripes about how V stores handle un-ID'd items. I don't mind that storekeepers have unlimited access to ID, but I think this should be followed more towards its logical conclusion. Two small examples:

1) A storekeeper should never let an item cross his counter un-ID'd. Period. No real person with that kind of access to potentially competitive information would not take advantage. Therefore, a player with an un-ID'd item should have three choices, and three choices only:
A) pay the store directly with $$$ to ID the item, ala NPP;
B) walk away sulking;
C) sell the item to the storekeeper for a percentage of the item's post-ID price: the storekeeper ID's the item just sold in exchange for a share of the item's post-ID value, instead of IDing for a flat fee. This is for when the player doesn't have enough $$ to buy the service outright and doesn't want to leave sulking.
Of course, the storekeeper's share would vary depending on what kind of item needed Id-ing when sold. For example, Mushrooms most likely suck, so a sensible storekeeper would insist on an 80% share of an un-ID'd shroom. That share might be 50% for scrolls, 40% for rings, 25% for weapons, etc... Exact numbers to be determined...
For items that are guaranteed to be good, in particular all un-ID'd rods and anything with a {good} or better pseudo-ID, the ID price should be twice the item's vanilla value (or in the case of rods, twice the value of a rod of trap detection, which is the worst the item could be), deducted instantaneously from the proceeds of the sale. (This may seem to be a really good deal for the player most of the time, but the shopkeeper also stands to make a hefty profit reselling the object to an abstracted off-screen third party...)
I hope I didn't make this sound more complicated than it actually is.

2) Storekeepers should never buy un-ID'd ammo one at a time. If you want to sell un-ID'd ammo, you have to sell the entire quiver/sack. Otherwise, the player could gain 30-40 per shot if the ammo's magical, but the shopkeeper would only avoid paying 1-2 per shot if they're cursed.

Just my .2

z118
February 1, 2008, 13:34
I like the idea of being able to pay a storekeeper to ID an item. This makes good sense; since they seem to have unlimited access to this ability anyway, why not make money off of it? It would also eliminate the annoyance of coming back to town and finding no ID scrolls or staves for sale.

I do tend to think however that it actually works to the storekeepers' advantage to buy items un ID'ed. Granted they get the short end of the stick on most early versions of all items (except weapons and armor), but on the other hand they get consistent great deals on wands and staves with unknown charges. They also do fine on weapons and armor unless you happen to sell one that is cursed that you haven't gotten a feeling on yet.

konijn_
February 1, 2008, 14:39
<SNIP>

A) pay the store directly with $$$ to ID the item, ala NPP;

If you need more id than what Vanilla gives you, then you worry too much about id'ing everything ;) Live on the wild side ! You wont loose artifacts anyway.

B) walk away sulking;

;) Sulking because the player couldnt wait for a staff of identify ? ;)

C) sell the item to the storekeeper for a percentage of the item's post-ID price: the storekeeper ID's the item just sold in exchange for a share of the item's post-ID value, instead of IDing for a flat fee. This is for when the player doesn't have enough $$ to buy the service outright and doesn't want to leave sulking.

Meh. In my opinion, the player already does too many trips to town. This would encourage players to use up even more scrolls of recall and selling off all the time instead of spending times in the dungeon.

2) Storekeepers should never buy un-ID'd ammo one at a time. If you want to sell un-ID'd ammo, you have to sell the entire quiver/sack. Otherwise, the player could gain 30-40 per shot if the ammo's magical, but the shopkeeper would only avoid paying 1-2 per shot if they're cursed.

I fail to see how that is realistic, does the shopkeeper have X ray eyes ?
What would be more realistic is that maybe the shopkeeper remembers the last 10 unid'd ammo's you sold. If the player sells a stack of identified ammo that is of the same type that was sold before unid'd, we could increase the 'insult counter' of haggling. Eventually ending with the shop closing its door for those cheatin' adventurers if the player is really pushing it.

Just my .2

Thank you for your 2 cents, I might sound overly negative. But your idea generated my counter-idea which I would very much like to implement.

Oh, I also feel that shops should buy known broken and cursed stuff and junk it as a service to the player.

Cheers,
T.

pesachyonah
February 1, 2008, 15:08
I do tend to think however that it actually works to the storekeepers' advantage to buy items un ID'ed. Granted they get the short end of the stick on most early versions of all items (except weapons and armor), but on the other hand they get consistent great deals on wands and staves with unknown charges. They also do fine on weapons and armor unless you happen to sell one that is cursed that you haven't gotten a feeling on yet.

Are you suggesting that storekeepers eat the possibility of buying cursed or crap items un-ID'd for the privilege of buying good and great stuff unID'd later? A couple of problems with that:

1) If I were the player, and I knew that something I was carrying was a good wand/staff with unspecified charges or a pseudo-id'd thing with {good} or better, I would insist upon it being ID'd before sale. The player's got the upper hand in this situation, and he should be able to use it.

2) All this assumes that players still bring un-ID'd stuff to market after the early stages of the game. Frankly, unless you're a warrior or a priest/paladin with really *lousy* luck who doesn't find Godly Insights until well later than normal, that scenario is unlikely. And even then, ID scrolls *are* cheap. So, where's the storekeeper's benefit in the bargain now?

Of course, as Konijn points out very intelligently, quibbling about storekeeper psychology and purchasing habits may well be counterproductive if you believe that the game puts too much emphasis on scumming for gold. And he's got a point--unlike NPP where there are actually things and services a player can buy that are fabulously expensive, a player in V rarely ever needs more than 100K, since speed items just don't show up in the black market very often.

- PY