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bonzo
May 30, 2008, 15:56
Some variants have been purposefully created in order to offer more challenge to the *band player, while others have achieved this by accident.

What variant do you find most difficult/challenging? Not necessarily difficult in the sense of reaching the end game and/or winning, but in just staying alive.

Some that come to mind are NPP, Entro, Heng, and maybe Z. I originally thought Un was a bit easier than those, but after playing it a few more times I might have to add it to this list.

Psi
May 30, 2008, 16:10
Of the variants you've mentioned, I've only played NPP - and I'd have to disagree on that one. The quests seem to keep your XP and equipment improving at a rate that keeps you slightly over-powered for the level you are on.

The toughest variant I've played is probably Oangband.

Bandobras
May 30, 2008, 19:14
I originally thought Un was a bit easier than those, but after playing it a few more times I might have to add it to this list.

We are working on that. :p (DL 100 monsters on DL60, semi-persistent dungeon and an extended deadly endgame in 0.6.3)

bonzo
May 30, 2008, 21:59
Of the variants you've mentioned, I've only played NPP - and I'd have to disagree on that one. The quests seem to keep your XP and equipment improving at a rate that keeps you slightly over-powered for the level you are on.

I see your point there. Quests do help you get a good head start, if you can actually complete them. However, some of the quests later on are downright nasty. Guess I should say NPP can be difficult if you want it to be.




We are working on that. (DL 100 monsters on DL60, semi-persistent dungeon and an extended deadly endgame in 0.6.3)

Hey, no complaints here. More difficult = more fun...at least in my book.

will_asher
May 31, 2008, 00:31
more difficult does not equal more fun in my book. If I spend more time rolling characters and adventuring on the first few dungeon levels than I spend playing the main part of the game then it's not that fun.
I intended to make DaJAngband as close to the same skill level as vanilla as I could, but I kept thinking of changes which made sense and added flavor but also made the game slightly harder and those add up. oh well. I guess most people who are better at the game than I am won't mind that at all, and it's still pretty close to the same skill level as V.

HallucinationMushroom
May 31, 2008, 01:15
Of the variants I've played I'd say Oangband is the most challenging. Just thinking about Oangband makes me feel like somebody tied a millstone around my neck and now I must march up a steep steep hill. Man I'm tired now.

Poop Loops
May 31, 2008, 03:42
SAngband. I can't get past a few levels because XP gain slows to a halt very fast and you start with mediocre skills, especially as a mage. You start with 15% fail rate for Magic Missile. It doesn't go away quickly, either.

Atriel
June 5, 2008, 23:37
Ahn

I think that [FA] is way harder than [O], Even thou there are
some broken stuff in [O] (like unlight, lack of consumables, etc)

Iīve won [O] 1.10 twice (in a row! lucky) last month,
pala with EMagic, SMastery and Athletics and agravating
Warrior wearing Calris (6-blow) with SMastery, Athletics,
Regen and Fury. Couldnīt bring dumps because i tend to play
in my jobīs terminal...
I think there is a level of understanding of [O]/[FA] gameplay
that allows one to dive (not as deep as one would dive in [V])
and donīt die... and know what to do depending on what one
finds. One mustnīt be mega-gung-ho as one is playing [V] or etc...
PSI seems to be beyond this level, playing stealthy
characters in [FA] as an example. I suck at stealth... and prefer to
carry tons of stuff in the inv for every situation and lots of tele,
stone to mud, earthquake, etc

Then, i didnīt experiment a lot with FA because i find it too painful
to walk in those mountains and i like V-style dungeons... My
chars died sorta fast, only reached lvl 2x three times...

Some FA spoilers would be cool!

Hm
Iīd say that EntroBand/Hengband are slighty harder than O/FA.

Elliott
June 10, 2008, 15:55
To me, it depends on what you mean by "stay alive". Assuming a fairly generic character and play-style, Steamband's early-middle game can be absolutely brutal. You can run into poison breathing mobs with large escorts WAY before you'll have poison resist, and your only hope of survival is to see them first and run fast. By the end game, however, your power ramps up so quickly that the final boss is pretty anticlimactic.

For late game, I haven't played all variants, but "The Mad Chemist" from Entroband probably qualifies as the nastiest end-boss because of his special AFC ability. You have to not only be enormously powerful, but also really understand what that ability can do and how to work around it.

I remember the first time I had a character try the Chemist (a fairly powerful life/craft beastman priest, I think). The character had pounded the Serpent into the ground fairly comfortably, yet I'm not sure he even managed to get a single star off the Chemist before being turned into a smear.

Personally, I actually find Vanilla to be the most difficult version to stay alive in, and I don't think I've ever gotten a character over about level 35-40 or out of stat-gain depth. I'm simply too used to the bells and whistles of the other versions, I guess. The stripped down grind of Vanilla wears my attention down, my mind wanders and POOF its time to reroll again. For some reason, I feel like Vanilla sticks me in situations that are both impossible to survive or escape and impossible to see coming, far more often than other variants. Perhaps I need to stair-scum more.

Djabanete
June 11, 2008, 03:51
For some reason, I feel like Vanilla sticks me in situations that are both impossible to survive or escape and impossible to see coming, far more often than other variants. Perhaps I need to stair-scum more.

Really? That's exactly how I feel about Entro :D

Atriel
July 24, 2008, 15:53
The stripped down grind of Vanilla wears my attention down, my mind wanders and POOF its time to reroll again.

You said it all.

I used to say that Attention was the third and most important resource in Starcraft, before Mineral and Gas... and then lost my bnet HARDCORE lvl 85 barb zerker leveling in arreat summit in DII, while watching the TV.

Elliott
August 11, 2008, 15:41
Ouch! Level 85 HC with a Barb was pretty good. Just one Oblivion Knight casting... Iron Maiden, was it? Or curse of thorns or something in mid-whirlwind and POOF, you're dead.

I played HC bowazons mostly, with lots of knockback and slowing gear for bonus survivability. My best effort was 78 or 79. I still curse that extra-fast, lightning enchanted named mob. Lag spike as it came on the screen and I was dead just about the time I was able to react. Still sad about it.

RogerN
August 11, 2008, 22:30
SAngband. I can't get past a few levels because XP gain slows to a halt very fast and you start with mediocre skills, especially as a mage. You start with 15% fail rate for Magic Missile. It doesn't go away quickly, either.

SAngband is brutal to early mages, but physical combat skills are pretty good. The best way to ensure survival is to put your first 15-20 points into wrestling or karate. Don't worry about spells until you can fight off basic threats (weaker orcs, novice warriors, etc...) without them.

Atriel
August 17, 2008, 19:19
SAngband is brutal to early mages, but physical combat skills are pretty good. The best way to ensure survival is to put your first 15-20 points into wrestling or karate. Don't worry about spells until you can fight off basic threats (weaker orcs, novice warriors, etc...) without them.

Also, Sang penalizes you a *LOT* if you spread and put too many skills early on... I find the best way to go is to pump only a few skills in the start, putting only 1 or 2 points in the other skills to avoid the penalties, and go this way: focus on the 2 or 3 main skills, then leave all others at (power level -9). BTW i never play with more than 10 skills.

Atriel
August 18, 2008, 09:22
Ouch! Level 85 HC with a Barb was pretty good. Just one Oblivion Knight casting... Iron Maiden, was it? Or curse of thorns or something in mid-whirlwind and POOF, you're dead.

I played HC bowazons mostly, with lots of knockback and slowing gear for bonus survivability. My best effort was 78 or 79. I still curse that extra-fast, lightning enchanted named mob. Lag spike as it came on the screen and I was dead just about the time I was able to react. Still sad about it.

Actually, Iron Maiden didn't affect me at all :) Berzerk transforms all damage into magic damage... and Oblivion Knights would always cast it over the mana curse thanks to 2800 life non-tweaked :) And Howl + Taunt + Zerk kick ass!!! I was actually scared of fire enchanted monsters, using dual javelins with dual throw to hit them. But then I died in like, 5 seconds, catapults + wandering unique mech (tresh socket?) heh...