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Sky August 27, 2019 09:00

uh ... bug report?
So, it was my understanding that monster memory works like this:
you see a new monster, you shoot the monster with a fireball, the monster resists, the memory gets updated.

And, by extension that all elements exist as potential resists/ does not resist flags. So if i breathe shards on Ulfang and he doesnt resist them, the monster memory would get updated with "does not resist shards".

But, i have noticed lately that (on 4.1.2) monster memories do not get updated; when i look at the m.m. i get things like " X does not resist Acid" but then i attack them with a not-listed element and the m.m. does not change.

I just shot a patriarch with Explosion and the m.m. does not tell me if he does or doesnt resist shards. Sure, i can read it from the messages, but, should it not work as i described?

Oraticus August 27, 2019 13:33

I posted the same thing in the Angband 4.2.0 thread, so you're definitely not the only one experiencing this!

Nick March 17, 2020 04:48

OK, not a bug.

There are some elements which are only resisted by monsters which breathe them - shards is one of these. These do not get a specific note in the monster memory, and do not need it because (e.g.) shards breath implies shards resistance and vice versa.

Then there are elements which monsters can resist even when they don't breathe them; these include fire, poison, disenchantment, water and others. These do get a note in the monster memory, because you can't tell by their breath.

quarague March 17, 2020 08:47

So it is currently working as intended but it seems there is still room for improvement. If I breath shards at a monster I get to find out whether it can breath shards back at me or not. Granted there are not many situations where this might be relevant but maybe this can still be put into the monster memory somehow. Additionally the fact breather <=> resistant for some higher elements is another fact that an experienced player might know but that is very hard to find out just from playing the game.

Nick March 17, 2020 10:53

I see your point, but I also don't want to crowd the monster memory with a whole bunch of less important information that obscures the relevant stuff. So in this case, telling the player a monster doesn't resist shards gives almost no information because hardly any monsters do (only shards breathers), and adding it to the lore just makes it harder to read and makes the player more likely to miss the information that is more likely to be unexpected.

Pete Mack March 17, 2020 13:22

I'm with Nick. We already have lore junked up with "is not affected by rock remover" and "not vulnerable to bright light".

Ugramoth March 23, 2020 06:58

If reducing clutter from monster memory is desired, is it necessary to mention 'does resist cold' for undead? They always do, don't they?
For demons, I think there are few ice-based exceptions that don't resist fire...

moosferatu March 23, 2020 12:14

As a new player, my eyes glaze over when trying to parse a long monster memory. I'm sure this would be no small change, but I think it might help if the information was presented with a little more structure along the lines of gear descriptions.

Adam March 23, 2020 17:15

I don't have a problem with the current look, but finding the information more easily the monster resistances could also be represented as a fix list in a new line as acid / elec / fire / cold / pois / etc where the font color of each element would show the information (green - hurt by, cyan - does not resist, grey - no info, orange - resists, red - immune).

Hounded March 23, 2020 21:23

A table or chart of some description at the end of the memory blurb? That way you only bother to dig into it when you really need to know about a specific resistance.

Nick March 24, 2020 20:51


Originally Posted by Hounded (Post 143828)
A table or chart of some description at the end of the memory blurb? That way you only bother to dig into it when you really need to know about a specific resistance.

This is an idea that's been proposed before (for example here), but never implemented. I'll try to keep it in mind.

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