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-   -   I'm back! (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=11026)

hyperdex December 28, 2021 17:23

I'm back!
 
It seems like every few years I get the Angband bug again. Knowing that I would have a few days off for the holidays, I downloaded 4.2.3, applied my (informational) patch, created a warrior, and started playing. I managed to get one to level 50 before YASDing to a Great Storm Wyrm while lacking sound resistance, and have another crusing through stat gain at the moment. I have a few observations/questions...

First, well done to the team! I really enjoy the tweaks that have been made to make the game more fun. I love the little speed tweaks that have made formerly uninteresting artifacts worthy of consideration. I like the rune system for identification.

I also would like to comment upon just how easy it was to compile for a mac -- literally a single command (from the right directory). I don't know what it took to get it to this point, but kudos!

I was mildly disappointed to see that the checkerboard vaults apparently are no more. I (begrudgingly) agree with the decision. With reliable speed and TOther, GCVs are completely unbalanced. I exploited this during my previous wins, and now I cannot.

Here are some questions...

With the new rune system, is the only way to identify magic devices/consumables to use them properly or to sell them in town? I'm just wondering if I am missing something. With that in mind have the really bad potions (Death, *Detonations*, I think) been removed so that quaffing an unidentified potion is not going to be an instadeath as long as the player is in a safe-ish place? I have taken to reading all new scrolls on sight -- aside from the occasional premature Deep Descent it seems to be working for me.

I had the following situation. At some point I noticed a Star on the ground but had to leave the level without actually stepping on it or getting it. The Star did not show up in my known artifacts, nor did it ever show up again in that game, but later I did get the Arkenstone. Was the Star lost or would it (eventually) have shown up again?

What is the best way of using the stat gain/loss potions? If one of my stats is lagging behind the others I will quaff that stat's potion to even things out, and once one or more stats are maxxed and one has extra gain potions for that stat, then the gain/loss potions are at worst a break even and have a decent (at least 1/4) chance of being convertable into a stat gain. Does anyone here have any advice?

Finally, I tend to start with warriors as they are relatively easy to get pretty deep. It's fun to see the new items/features/monsters! What are some good/fun spell casters that I should try next? I am eager to see the new magic system in use.

Dave

hyperdex December 28, 2021 17:53

One more observation. I actually love playing with sound! I had never compiled with sound before, but it really adds quite a bit to the atmosphere!

Raerick December 28, 2021 18:30

Yes you can only identify consumables by use or selling/giving to a shop. There are no absolutely deadly consumables. The worst are; a temporary stat drain (mushroom of debility), summon monsters/undead (scroll or staff version), potion of salt water (if you have no immediate food options), or temporary ailment (blindness, slow, poison, etc.) I definitely wouldn't read or use un-IDed scrolls staves without being on stairs until the summoning versions have been identified (though staves of summoning don't seem to be an immediate worry with a new game.)

Whether undiscovered artifacts are gone or not is a birth option, but I think if you stood over the thing it might be gone regardless. Not sure though.

There are other potions that increase a stat without a swap and they start coming into depth about 10 levels deeper from the swap versions. I tend to drink the swaps until they are identified, take a chance on a couple of the ones I need after identification, and then just set them to ignore when the better ones come into depth. Really the game is usually generous enough that you can have all stats internally maxed (barring what is needed by equipment) by DL 80. It can be a bit trickier if you play with no recall and forced descent, but not by much. Playing ironman can make other consumables be an issue though unless you have cold/fire/acid immunity or take to stashing the end game consumables in safe places before picking them up prior to leaving the floor (don't do this if falling through a trap door or being hit with teleport level are realistic scenarios though.)

I like Druids. I killed Morgoth with the first Druid I tried (4.2.3) The transformation spells were only marginally useful for me (pukleman and eagleform in particular being useful), but they have decent damage spells and useful utility spells. My first few attempts at Necromancer ended in early deaths, so I haven't given them enough of a spin to comment.

hyperdex December 28, 2021 20:11

I am definitely playing with birth_lose_arts=no and I never stepped on the Star thus identifying it. I had used a !Enlightenment on the level and it appeared as an unidentified Star on my object list. I found the fact that it never appeared again but the Arkenstone did as suggestive but not conclusive. (I vaguely recall something about the artifact lights being generated in order, but I could easily be mistaken.)

backwardsEric December 28, 2021 20:45

A permanently lost artifact is supposed to get an entry in the player's history: you can check that in game with '~' followed by 'r'; the history is also included when you do a character dump to a file from the character sheet.

Pete Mack December 28, 2021 21:42

Oh man--checkerboard vault will really be missed. Never mind that it is unbalanced: it always gjves a moment of real excitement to see one.

Nick December 28, 2021 21:54

Checkerboard vaults are still there - I actually don't think any vault has ever been removed, but lots have been added.

I would recommend at least trying the Necromancer (avoid lit squares) and Blackguard (safer to attack than to rest).

hyperdex December 28, 2021 23:02

I'm sorry -- I was looking for a name like "Checkerboard" and didn't realize that they are simply called "Huge'. My bad.

(I am glad they are still around for now.)

Bogatyr December 30, 2021 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 156772)
Checkerboard vaults are still there - I actually don't think any vault has ever been removed, but lots have been added.

I would recommend at least trying the Necromancer (avoid lit squares) and Blackguard (safer to attack than to rest).

Haven't groked Blackguard yet. Tried one, fought as much as I could as often as I could without resting, but always had 0 mana...

Pete Mack December 30, 2021 14:52

Getting mana is easy: just pick a fight with someone weaker. Blackguard uses spells often, to aggravate awake monsters, and to stun in battle. He also uses spells to get more than one blow starting CL 20. (Though Whirlwind attack agajnst a single enemy does seem pretty silly.)

Grotug December 30, 2021 15:26

Welcome back! I love playing with sound, too. I play a lot of Rangers; not for the spells, but because unbreakable ammo is fun, and extra shots with character level ups for all launchers (not just bows) is also fun. Iron shots and pebbles don't break anymore and I think they are immune to acid as well. I still think they should have a breakability of 1 or 2 percent, while bolts should be further reduced to 10% and arrows to 15% (and/or mithril ammo should be twice as durable as non mithril ammo).

I am terrible at new Angband, though. So many early deaths; enemies are much more dangerous than they used to be. Congrats on your win; do you understand how movement speed works? I find Warriors harder to play in latest version of Angband as compared to 4.1.3 and earlier.

hyperdex December 30, 2021 16:21

Thanks for the tips! I look forward to trying some of the new classes once my current character (almost inevitably) YASDs.

To be clear, I have yet to win with 4.2.3. My last win was 4.1.2 and I had a couple of older wins where I have lost the records.

Currently I have a dwarven warrior at level 50 puttering around the 60s looking for uniques to kill and vaults to plunder. Telepathy and the monster list in a term window is really useful for tracking down most of the uniques. Aglarang is a nice powerful weapon with which I have won the game before, so I am happy there. My AC is terrible mostly because I need to stick with Himring for rPoison. I lack rSound (like my previous char) so I am avoiding great wyrms of thunder and the like. I would like to reorganize, but my hands are a little tied.

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=24818

Bogatyr December 30, 2021 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Mack (Post 156781)
Getting mana is easy: just pick a fight with someone weaker. Blackguard uses spells often, to aggravate awake monsters, and to stun in battle. He also uses spells to get more than one blow starting CL 20. (Though Whirlwind attack agajnst a single enemy does seem pretty silly.)

I'll have to try again. I fought all the time, and between every fight my mana always dropped to zero. Maybe I didn't try long enough or deep enough...

Pete Mack December 30, 2021 18:55

I agree that starting blackguard is a serious slog.

Hounded December 30, 2021 21:36

I'd have to say Blackguard is arguably my favorite class now. With mana you need to get out of the "horde it for when I need it" mindset and instead use it as soon as it's available. I conduct myself in what feels like a perpetual headlong rush from one victim to the next before my mana all converts to HP.

Summoning curses can actually be nice for them as an occasional skeleton (or whatever) popping up is a nice mana boost if you're down to nothing. Rings of open wounds or anything with aggravation also complement the class nicely.

Pete Mack December 30, 2021 21:56

Hounded-
That swap of horde/hoard *really* through me for a loop! I was expecting tactics for fighting trolls.

Hounded December 31, 2021 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Mack (Post 156800)
Hounded-
That swap of horde/hoard *really* through me for a loop! I was expecting tactics for fighting trolls.

LOL Blasted android assistant. Made all the more entertaining for my own obsessive tendencies around the use of the language. Irony is beautiful.

Pete Mack December 31, 2021 16:17

D'oh! And in the same message, i misspelled threw!

Bogatyr January 4, 2022 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hounded (Post 156799)
I'd have to say Blackguard is arguably my favorite class now. With mana you need to get out of the "horde it for when I need it" mindset and instead use it as soon as it's available. I conduct myself in what feels like a perpetual headlong rush from one victim to the next before my mana all converts to HP.

Summoning curses can actually be nice for them as an occasional skeleton (or whatever) popping up is a nice mana boost if you're down to nothing. Rings of open wounds or anything with aggravation also complement the class nicely.

I finally got a (Dwarf, pretty good race for a BG) blackguard off the ground. It would help if there were some sort of "mechanics FAQ" for all the classes. E.g., I wasn't aware previously that a BG casting heals some HP.

Blackguard is definitely fun and a big change from my usual style of super-stealthy pick-n-choose-fights low-HP mages.

p.s. Hold Monster has a whole new meaning with BG: "Where you going, buddy?! Hahaha!"

sffp January 5, 2022 20:41

Make sure you stun a lot
It is your friend.
I was having trouble with Morgoth as a BG - until I realized that stun worked on him too!

Pete Mack January 5, 2022 23:44

What sffp said. Also, use aggro spell pretty much all the time after DL ~40, or whenever monsters are liable to do more damage with spells than melee. Combined with stun, the monster is helpless.

Bogatyr January 6, 2022 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Mack (Post 156862)
What sffp said. Also, use aggro spell pretty much all the time after DL ~40, or whenever monsters are liable to do more damage with spells than melee. Combined with stun, the monster is helpless.

You mean "Relentless Taunting?"
I like that BG gets multiple swings with very heavy weapons from the various attack rituals.

Hounded January 6, 2022 15:37

Maim Foe for the stunning then Leap or Whirlwind for damage and HP regen. Repeat as needed. :)

Pete Mack January 6, 2022 19:16

Bogatyr--yes. It has the same effect as aggro without waking monsters up. It is crazy powerful vs spellcasters.

malcontent January 6, 2022 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Mack (Post 156872)
Bogatyr--yes. It has the same effect as aggro without waking monsters up. It is crazy powerful vs spellcasters.

My understanding is that normal aggro does not inhibit monsters from ranged attacks - that is a unique advantage to Relentless Taunting.


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