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-   -   Stealth hunter help (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=8488)

vulsuck August 2, 2017 18:49

Stealth hunter help
 
I've been scouring the web for info on Sil (and watching Debo's helpful videos) but I've never been this deep before and I could use some advice.

I've been doing pretty well with my perception/stealth/archer build, but I'm concerned that I'm spreading myself too thin. Song of silence and the perception abilities have served me really well, but I don't know where to go from here. Should I pump song for better song of silence? Do I need song of sharpness for the throne room? I'm assuming more stealth and archery would be good in general.

Code:

  [Sil 1.3.0 Character Dump]

 Name  Carth        Age      803      Str  2
 Sex    Male          Height  6'8      Dex  7 =  4  +1      +2
 Race  Noldor        Weight  167      Con  4
 House  Finarfin                        Gra  4

 Game Turn  19,447  Melee  (+16,1d8)  Melee      16 =  0  +7  +1  +8
 Exp Pool    1,566  Bows  (+23,2d8)  Archery    23 = 15  +7      +1
 Total Exp  47,666  Armor [+19,6-15]  Evasion    19 = 11  +7  +1
 Burden      122.1                      Stealth    18 = 11  +7
 Max Burden  144.0  Health    38:41  Perception  16 =  9  +4  +2  +1
 Depth        900'  Voice      41:41  Will        9 =  5  +4
 Min Depth    750'                      Smithing    6 =  2  +4
 Light Radius    2                      Song        7 =  3  +4

 You are one of several children of a bard from the house of Finarfin.
 You have light grey eyes, wavy golden hair, and a fair complexion.






  [Equipment]

a) The Shortsword of Amrod (+1,1d7) [+1] <+2> 1.5 lb
  It improves your stealth and perception by 2.  It grants you
  freedom of movement.  It cannot be harmed by the elements. 
b) a Longbow of Nargothrond (+0,2d6) 3.0 lb
  It slays dragons and raukar.  It can shoot arrows 20 squares
  (with your current strength).
c) a Marble Ring of Evasion [+1]
d) a Golden Ring of Dexterity <+1>
  It increases your dexterity by 1.  It sustains your dexterity.
 
e) an Obsidian Amulet of Constitution <+0>
  It increases your constitution by 0.  It sustains your
  constitution. 
f) a Brass Lantern (5599 turns)
g) Studded Leather of Stealth [-2,1d5] <+1>
  It improves your stealth by 1. 
h) a Cloak of Protection [+1,1d1]
  It cannot be harmed by the elements. 
i) a Round Shield of Deflection [+1,1d3]
  It cannot be harmed by the elements. 
j) a Helm of Clarity [-1,1d3]
  It provides resistance to confusion, stunning, and
  hallucination. 
k) a Set of Gauntlets [+0,1d1]
l) a Pair of Greaves of Free Action [+0,1d2]
  It grants you freedom of movement. 
m) 54 Arrows
  They can be shot 20 squares (with your current strength and bow).
n) 35 Arrows (Poisoned)
  They are branded with venom.  They can be shot 20 squares
  (with your current strength and bow).


  [Inventory]

a) 8 Thorny Herbs of Rage
b) a Dark Green Herb of Healing
c) a Grey Herb of Restoration
d) 4 Fragments of Lembas
e) 7 Flasks of oil
f) a Clear Potion of Miruvor
g) 11 Murky Brown Potions of Orcish Liquor
h) 2 Golden Potions of Clarity
i) 6 Grey Potions of Healing
j) 3 Copper Speckled Potions of True Sight
k) 6 Vermilion Potions of Slow Poison
l) 4 Dark Blue Potions of Quickness
m) a Crimson Potion of Strength
n) a Silver Staff of Freedom (used 1 time)
o) a Twisted Staff of Sanctity (4 charges)
p) an Ivory Staff of Understanding (7 charges)
q) a Bloodstone Ring of Frost
  It provides resistance to fire. 
r) a Dragon Tooth Amulet of Grace <+0>
  It increases your grace by 0.  It sustains your grace. 
s) a Shadow Cloak of Warmth [+3] <+2>
  It improves your stealth by 2.  It provides resistance to
  cold.  It creates an unnatural darkness. 
t) a Mattock of Belegost (-5,5d3) <+3> 14.0 lb
  It improves your tunneling by 3.  It requires both hands to
  wield it properly. 
u) 24 Arrows of Piercing {piercing}
  They cut easily through armour.  They can be shot 20 squares
  (with your current strength and bow).
v) 55 Arrows (+3)
  They can be shot 20 squares (with your current strength and bow).
w) 64 Arrows
  They can be shot 20 squares (with your current strength and bow).


  [Notes]

Carth of the Noldor
Entered Angband on 1 Aug 2017

  Turn    Depth  Note

      0    50 ft  (Focused attack)
      0    50 ft  (Concentration)
    762    100 ft  (Weaponsmith)
    822    100 ft  Made a Longbow (+0,2d5)  2.0 lb
    883    100 ft  Made a Mattock (-5,5d2) <+2>  11.0 lb
    893    100 ft  Made 24 Arrows  2.4 lb
  1,226    150 ft  (Precision)
  2,066    200 ft  Encountered Gorgol, the Butcher
  2,079    200 ft  Slew Gorgol, the Butcher
  2,894    250 ft  (Dodging)
  2,894    250 ft  (Sprinting)
  3,721    250 ft  Fell through a false floor
  5,044    350 ft  Found The Shortsword of Amrod
  6,196    350 ft  (Disguise)
  6,730    400 ft  (Flaming Arrows)
  6,788    400 ft  Made 24 Arrows  2.4 lb
  6,798    400 ft  Made 24 Arrows  2.4 lb
  6,808    400 ft  Made 24 Arrows  2.4 lb
  7,708    450 ft  (Dexterity)
  8,366    450 ft  Encountered Othrod, the Orc Lord
  8,559    450 ft  Slew Othrod, the Orc Lord
  9,276    450 ft  Encountered Ulfang the Black
  9,293    450 ft  (Keen Senses)
  9,331    450 ft  Slew Ulfang the Black
 10,348    500 ft  (Inner Light)
 12,311    550 ft  Encountered Duruin, Least of the Balrogs
 12,347    550 ft  Destroyed Duruin, Least of the Balrogs
 12,807    550 ft  Made 24 Arrows  2.4 lb
 12,817    550 ft  Made 24 Arrows  2.4 lb
 12,910    600 ft  (Vanish)
 12,910    600 ft  (Exchange Places)
 13,799    600 ft  (Versatility)
 16,205    650 ft  Made 24 Arrows  2.4 lb
 16,215    650 ft  Made 24 Arrows  2.4 lb
 17,209    700 ft  Made 24 Arrows  2.4 lb
 17,219    700 ft  Made 24 Arrows  2.4 lb
 18,179    800 ft  Fell through a false floor
 18,392    850 ft  Encountered Tevildo, Prince of Cats
 18,397    850 ft  Slew Tevildo, Prince of Cats
 18,472    850 ft  Encountered Umuiyan, the Doorkeeper
 18,474    850 ft  (Song of Silence)
 18,483    850 ft  (Dexterity)
 18,484    850 ft  Slew Umuiyan, the Doorkeeper
 18,665    850 ft  Encountered Oikeroi, Guard of Tevildo
 18,670    850 ft  Slew Oikeroi, Guard of Tevildo
 18,718    850 ft  Found The Greatsword 'Calris'
 19,253    850 ft  (Master Hunter)
 19,447    850 ft  Fell through a false floor



  ['Score' 018080553]


wobbly August 2, 2017 19:07

Fair bit depends on how you want to handle the throne room. Are you planing on fighting Morgoth? Trying to kill him? or are you trying to sneak it?

vulsuck August 2, 2017 21:04

Well, I'm not really sure. I don't think I'd be comfortable in melee combat in the throne room. And I doubt I could take on a horde of guys with my bow, so I guess I'm planning on sneaking.

vulsuck August 3, 2017 04:34

So I died on 950 stupidly because I woke up a vault with Dagorhir and an ancient amethyst serpent and then got caught by a Gwathrauko while running away. In retrospect, maybe I should have gone with more stealth and picked up listen so I'd be able to mitigate my 2 light radius.

Patashu August 3, 2017 04:41

Song of the Trees is worth considering if you're short on light, it can give a large bonus to light radius weighed against tanking your stealth.

wobbly August 3, 2017 08:33

yeah listen would of served you a fair bit better than say Versatility. The extra range alone is a big boost.

ripforareason August 8, 2017 00:33

I would get song of sharpness on every archer. it's too useful to not have. plus if you're going to fight Morgoth, you need Song of Slaying anyway. The downside to getting it is that your stealth abilities will start to seem like a waste of experience. Your character was probably good enough to get at least 1 sil from Morgoth otherwise, though. You probably would have wanted listen on a stealth character, for sure.

I've never been able to "do" stealth myself, it always gets too frustrating when I know I can build a character to just kill everything.

Patashu August 8, 2017 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ripforareason (Post 123128)
I've never been able to "do" stealth myself, it always gets too frustrating when I know I can build a character to just kill everything.

Is this true even for Edain?

I'd love to see the next version of Sil include starting settings or optional challenges (like the switches for ironman, no artifacts, etc) that make different builds optimal for maximizing winrate (harder enemies so stealth is optimal, worse floor trash so smithing is optimal, and so on).

ripforareason August 8, 2017 13:07

Yep, all my Edain 3Sil + V wins were low-stealth melee brawlers. I think I get 6 for Opportunist -> Rapid Attack late in the game, but I usually have heavy enough armor that it doesn't do a whole lot. I thought Hador and Haleth weren't too awful, but Beor was kind of hard. Sometimes you might just randomly die, but this is part and parcel of playing an Edain.

This is equally true of stealth, imo. If you get cornered and are weaker than usual, and you're already an Edain, you are screwed.

taptap August 8, 2017 15:20

fwiw, i never had archers sing song of slaying in the throne room. it can work well, but it isn't required. and with piercing arrows available, i believe it should be possible to do without song of sharpness as well, unless you need it to get at the sils. this is the meanest thing about playing archers, that sometimes you can kill V but can't get at the Sils after the first. i did isolate v in these runs, either by assassinating most ppl around w/ stealth + high perception (older version, may not work now) or by using extreme light and song of elbereth and then go at lonely v with concentration (+ song of sharpness). these are probably not the most effective approaches to do the throne room as archer, but you can play w/ more than one archetype and still win.


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