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-   -   gain one, lose one stat potions (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=4861)

bulian September 3, 2011 18:25

gain one, lose one stat potions
 
I've recently modified how I use these potions with effective results.

I realized at some point that gains above 18 are somewhat random and typically > "10". So, if Con is at 17 and the player drinks 2 !Toughness, the first potion will bring him to 18 and the second potion may bring him somewhere between 18/10 and 18/30. Let's say the first brings the player to 18/25. Drinking another !Toughness again results in a random gain.

If the player then drinks another +1-1 potion and CON is reduced, CON only drops by "10" to 18/15. Were CON at 17, it would drop to 16. So getting a character stat above 18 is good and results in semi +3-1 type behavior. Whether this is desired or not is beyond me.

Anyway, most classes care about a few stats; the simplest is warriors who care about STR/DEX/CON. Drinking brawn and losing DEX can be a wash. On the other hand if both STR and DEX are 16, drinking 3 brawn in a row followed by 3-4 nimbleness, there is a reasonable probability that both STR and DEX end up at or above 18. So, I've started waiting until I have enough potions to get all important stats > 18 and then drinking all the +1-1 potions at once. It's worked quite nicely the few times I've tried it. Should one stat be dominant (*cough cough* strength) I'll drink !brawn as I find them unless one stat gets too low.

fizzix September 4, 2011 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulian (Post 59522)
I realized at some point that gains above 18 are somewhat random and typically > "10". So, if Con is at 17 and the player drinks 2 !Toughness, the first potion will bring him to 18 and the second potion may bring him somewhere between 18/10 and 18/30. Let's say the first brings the player to 18/25. Drinking another !Toughness again results in a random gain.

This is a known issue. It can be mitigate somewhat by removing the random gain and replacing it with +10 after 18. There's still some problems as certain values (say 18/50 dex) are more useful than others. The random gain after 18 was put in to add some flavor. However, I'm not so certain it's worth it.

UglySquirrell September 4, 2011 20:31

I really like the random gain at 18. + usually I try and get my 2 main stats just above 18 then wait for stat potions. Makes the uninteresting, peaceful first 20 levels a little more interesting.

UglySquirrell September 4, 2011 21:03

Actually, I think it would be fun if unidentified regular stat potions, gave you a random boost 1-3 points. One of the variants I used to play did this. Of course they had potions of death, and explosions too :D

Timo Pietilš September 4, 2011 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by fizzix (Post 59552)
This is a known issue. It can be mitigate somewhat by removing the random gain and replacing it with +10 after 18.

It actually was like that for a while. People didn't like it, and it got reversed to what it was originally. I think main reason for that was to speed up the stat-gaining process. That random gain does have quite big impact on how many potions you really need to get to near-maxed stats.

fizzix September 5, 2011 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš (Post 59566)
It actually was like that for a while. People didn't like it, and it got reversed to what it was originally. I think main reason for that was to speed up the stat-gaining process. That random gain does have quite big impact on how many potions you really need to get to near-maxed stats.

I'd rather have some mechanic in that you gain +2 points up to 18/20 or 18/30 and then +10 after that. I dunno. It annoys me, but only slightly.

UglySquirrell September 5, 2011 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by fizzix (Post 59576)
I'd rather have some mechanic in that you gain +2 points up to 18/20 or 18/30 and then +10 after that. I dunno. It annoys me, but only slightly.

This would make more sense, I think. Other than carrying cappacity, stat raising before 18+ is reaallly boring and you see almost no gain. Hengband had a pretty cool system, at level 2 and then fixed levels after, you would get a random stat gain, I'm pretty sure it was 1or 2 points. It also allowed you to choose Wich stat to raise every 10 levels or so. I always found the games played a lot more smoothly, never had to slow down at stat gain depth. And leveling up was more rewarding early on.

Timo Pietilš September 5, 2011 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by fizzix (Post 59576)
I'd rather have some mechanic in that you gain +2 points up to 18/20 or 18/30 and then +10 after that. I dunno. It annoys me, but only slightly.

I don't have problem with random gain after 18, I have more problem it not being the case before it. IMO we should move to 3-40 (or maybe even 0-40) stat-system, and include fractional stats even before 18. (18 + 22 from "fractions" = 40).

Also time attacks at least used to have huge impact on stats before 18 but not after (bug, IMO).

d_m September 5, 2011 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš (Post 59588)
I don't have problem with random gain after 18, I have more problem it not being the case before it. IMO we should move to 3-40 (or maybe even 0-40) stat-system, and include fractional stats even before 18. (18 + 22 from "fractions" = 40).

Also time attacks at least used to have huge impact on stats before 18 but not after (bug, IMO).

I would also like to linearize the stats, although I can't say I have thought through all the implications carefully. I think most of the devs feel this way.

Narvius September 5, 2011 09:16

Which begs the questions: Why are they the way the are right now?
Probably historical reasons, but still, it's interesting to know why exactly.


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