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Nazghul August 3, 2013 17:32

Random Question
Because I am a curious kind of guy, I started wondering, after my first couple instances of YASD (for those who don't know what that acronym means, it stands for Yet Another Stupid Death... instances where you SHOULD have seen the Reaper coming and headed him off at the pass, but didn't)... IS there such a thing as a truly unavoidable death on D1? Could it really happen?

I started thinking about it. Well, what would count as truly unavoidable? First, it would have to be a situation where none of the early game panic buttons were working. This means that SoPD, SoWoR, PoS and all those would have to be effectively useless as a means of escape. Granted, SoWoR is kinda useless as a TRUE panic button due to the delay anyway, but even then, you can often hedge if you are a good player until it actually triggers, even in desperate circumstances. So, it would have to be a situation where you were blind or confused (can't read scrolls), and where you were movement restricted somehow, or facing enemies that are faster than you would be using the PoS.

Second, it couldn't be something that you could have seen coming. If it's something you could have avoided preemptively, it wasn't, by definition, unavoidable. While this condition is highly unlikely ever to be met, it IS possible that you could have a situation where no method of detection was available to you at the start of the game, so technically, it's still doable.

Last but not least, it would have to be a situation where, if actually caught in it, death would be nearly instant. If you can buy yourself even a little time chugging healing potions, you can often think your way out of something that would kill you if you had even a few less turns to maneuver.

I still don't think it can happen. However, depending on how teleport trap works, it might. It would require a combination of many unlucky factors, but it could. When a character gets teleported, do they automatically get the first move, like they do when they come up or down stairs? If so, then I can't think of a single truly unavoidable death. But if NOT, then I have already come up with one; a situation where even the most skilled player would be utterly helpless.

Derakon August 3, 2013 19:44

Assuming you aren't willing to actively search for traps, I believe a spiked pit trap is capable of killing level-1 mages outright. So they have a small chance of just up and dying any time they step onto a new tile, up until they get access to a trap detection spell.

Otherwise, I think the chance on level 1 of generating out-of-depth monsters is not actually zero, just very small, which means that potentially you could get some nasty monster that can one-shot you. A baby dragon, say. Awake, down a darkened corridor, so you couldn't even see it coming. But the odds of that must surely be even lower than the odds of hitting a spiked pit trap.

Monkey Face August 3, 2013 19:58

I believe that teleport and confusion are the only traps at 50' in recent versions.

MattB August 3, 2013 20:01


Originally Posted by Monkey Face (Post 83165)
I believe that teleport and confusion are the only traps at 50' in recent versions.

Mind you, a confusion trap would be lethal to a clvl1 mage if he was running away from Fang.

Timo Pietilš August 3, 2013 20:27


Originally Posted by MattB (Post 83166)
Mind you, a confusion trap would be lethal to a clvl1 mage if he was running away from Fang.

And teleport if it teleports him right next to Fang. Traps are supposed to be dangerous, problem with traps is that they are more like random event than expected thing that is too dangerous to ignore and too easy to avoid at higher levels.

Nazghul August 3, 2013 20:45

Active searching with mages is almost out of the question; takes too much time, and they already have to waste so many turns resting because of the mana issue at early levels, LOL. Even if a TP trap dropped you right next to Grip or Fang, say, you could still pop away... unless, of course, you DON'T get the first move. Even then, I believe the dogs only have the same base speed you do, don't they?

MattB August 3, 2013 20:51


Originally Posted by Nazghul (Post 83168)
I believe the dogs only have the same base speed you do, don't they?

'Fraid not. Both are quick. Phase is unlikely to help you escape unless you're lucky enough to land in a parallel corridor or on the other side of a pile of rubble. Not good odds.:)

Monkey Face August 3, 2013 20:53

I believe (but not 100% sure) that when you teleport, enemies get the first move. Also, Grip and Fang definitely move at twice your base speed. So teleport trap and then landing next to BOTH of them could be instadeath for level 1 character of almost any race/class combo.

MattB August 3, 2013 21:00

There was a debate on here about dlvl1 instadeath you might find interesting (although I seem to recall it got slightly acrimonious:mad:).

By the way, a quick tip for anyone that hasn't already worked this out (I've only just done so). I've found the search function on this forum to be almost unusable. However I've just realised that going into Google and prefacing your search with "angband forum" usually works a treat!:)

Nazghul August 3, 2013 22:53

After you teleport enemies automatically get first move? WOW. that means that there really ARE a few unavoidable deaths in the game. There are lots of situations... common ones... where enemies going first would get you killed. The dogs seldom give me any trouble (though they DO tend to eat a disproportionate number of my mages), but both at once? Honestly don't know how I would fare, there. Thanks for the link, MattB. I'll take a look.

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