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-   -   [Announce] PosChengband 1.0.0 (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=5848)

chris January 13, 2013 17:04

[Announce] PosChengband 1.0.0
 
1 Attachment(s)
The first official version of PosChengband has been released. You can download windows binaries and source code here.

So, what is it? First and foremost it is a Chengband derivative, though with rather extensive changes. Enough to warrant it being a completely new variant in my opinion. Most races and classes have been altered in at least minor ways and quite a few classes were completely redesigned. Dual wielding has been completely redesigned. There is a new resistance system. Player hitpoint evolution has changed and ... I've made too many changes to remember them all at the moment!

But the big change is the addition of Posband style monster races. Have you ever wanted to play as a Gelatinous Cube? As a Dragon? As a Phase Spider? If you are like me, then the answer is a resounding Yes! At the moment I've added 10 new monster races (Angel, Beholder, Demon, Dragon, Giant, Hound, Jelly, Lich, Spider and Xorn) and a few more will be coming shortly. Like Posband, each monster race (excepting Xorn) has a boss monster which will drop a special racial artifact.

Pav, would it be possible to allow ladder posts for this variant? I've redone the character dump to clean things up a bit and I'm trying to attach a sample. Thanks!!

Chris

Arendil January 13, 2013 19:56

Yay! That was sorta unexpected...you've got some really cool ideas here. I'll give it a shot.
As far as reworking goes how about changing 1-18/*** scale to something like 1-40? Or showing numerical values of skills in character dump?

Roch January 13, 2013 20:16

Played a quick xorn that died an ignominious death at the hands of an ewok in the warg quest. Plays fine through that point, thanks Chris!

pav January 13, 2013 20:18

The Ladder now accepts PosChengband dumps.

Nick January 13, 2013 20:24

Wow, you are utterly bananas - and I say that with the deepest admiration. Is it ready for a competition?

chris January 13, 2013 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by pav (Post 76323)
The Ladder now accepts PosChengband dumps.

Thanks, Pav!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 76324)
Wow, you are utterly bananas - and I say that with the deepest admiration. Is it ready for a competition?

At the risk of encountering embarrassing software bugs, sure :)

emulord January 13, 2013 21:58

I just found scrolls called "wascally wabbit".

ekolis January 14, 2013 01:07

PosChengband? Genius! Now I can play as a Metal Slime! (Err, "metal babble"...)

ekolis January 14, 2013 01:39

Hmm, I can't find the Possessor class anywhere... :(

chris January 14, 2013 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekolis (Post 76331)
Hmm, I can't find the Possessor class anywhere... :(

Sorry, no Possessor class. Actually, judging from the Posband ladder it was actually player monster races that were popular.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arendil (Post 76320)
As far as reworking goes how about changing 1-18/*** scale to something like 1-40? Or showing numerical values of skills in character dump?

I'm OK with the 3 to 40 stats but will probably hold off until 2.0. For skills, I'm not sure how much a numerical value will mean to the player since you really need to grok the code to understand what, say, a 237 Fighting skill actually means.

Arjen January 14, 2013 09:17

... So thats where you went. Already noticed that you weren't posting a lot anymore. I was fearing you dropped the best variant of Angband and retired to somewhere in RL.

But, you actually combined my two most favorite variants into 1! *faints* Where is the download of my new top one variant?? Need to spam the ladder with some mutating stuff! *inhales* *exhales*

Arjen January 14, 2013 09:24

Can I use this tread to spam things I notice?

Like, where can I see my attacks? Got the answer to this one :) Thx

*edit*

Ahh, chardumps still show. :)

*edit2*
but not correct as you see the amount of blows you have. Which is in my case (dragon) 1, but I do claw and bite as attacks which so wouldn't it be 2 blows?

*edit3*
Is it normal for a normal speed orc to have 8 hits in a round? Mauhur just wacked my ass this way. Didn't saw it coming that he would do over 75% of my total life in one round.

*edit4*
the game drops multiple spellbooks which can be extreemly munchin when you start to find the dungeonbooks, easy way to make insane amounts of cash. Ofcourse I don't knwo if the 3rd and 4th books also drops in packs. Noticed the dungeonbooks drop with just 1 at a time

*edit5*
Shouldn't the weapon/shield slot be 'left hand/right hand'? You hold your weapons/shield with your hand and not with your arm.

*edit6*
Just noticed that i missed a Sabertooth tiger twice. That's pretty normal, but I also noticed the sabertooth tiger died at blow 1 and after he died I actually attacked (missed) him 2 more times... I think it's a bit cruel to attack a dead opponent. I'm a Master Lich with no weapon equiped.

*edit7*
equiping/unequiping stuff as crossbowmaster makes the game crash.

*edit8*
Maybe the rewards from the bandit and warg quests should be a little bit more focused on the monster. As floating eyeball I still got a sword and a shield. With which hands am I going to wield those. ;)

Arendil January 14, 2013 12:35

Arjen,

Under '~" you have knowledge menu with detailed info about attacks. Still, would be nice to have it in the character screen.

getter77 January 14, 2013 13:05

Looks quite promising indeed.

chris January 14, 2013 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arjen (Post 76341)
equiping/unequiping stuff as crossbowmaster makes the game crash.

This is a nasty bug, and I must confess to not having played any sort of shooting class since forever. A fix has been uploaded here. While I was at it, I fixed a couple other minor bugs, added support for information on shooting and changed the character display to give options to view 'w'eapons or 'b'ows.

The other issue I've heard mentioned are the 'x' characters for unkown grids. That is actually the way Hengband displays them but I guess I must have poked the view_unsafe_grids option to default on at some point. I changed the default back to off for this option but you may need to turn it off manually for existing savefiles if it bothers you (It is on the Map Screen Options page).

Quote:

but not correct as you see the amount of blows you have. Which is in my case (dragon) 1, but I do claw and bite as attacks which so wouldn't it be 2 blows?
Dragons have two different kinds of innate attacks, and the blows displayed are only for the attack in question. Eventually, you can get 4 blows with your claws and 2 with your bite for a total of 6.

Quote:

Is it normal for a normal speed orc to have 8 hits in a round? Mauhur just wacked my ass this way. Didn't saw it coming that he would do over 75% of my total life in one round.
Yup! That's just a double move by Mauhur which is nothing unusual.

Quote:

the game drops multiple spellbooks which can be extreemly munchin when you start to find the dungeonbooks, easy way to make insane amounts of cash. Ofcourse I don't knwo if the 3rd and 4th books also drops in packs
Only first and second books will stack in 1.0.0. I changed this to just first spellbooks in 1.0.1. Another bug was that stat potions in the Black Market would stack (only relevant if you are extremely rich) but alas, that too has been fixed :)

Quote:

Just noticed that i missed a Sabertooth tiger twice. That's pretty normal, but I also noticed the sabertooth tiger died at blow 1 and after he died I actually attacked (missed) him 2 more times... I think it's a bit cruel to attack a dead opponent. I'm a Master Lich with no weapon equiped.
I tried to fix this but am not sure. I guess I need to play a Lich too?

Anyway, thanks for feedback!!

Derakon January 14, 2013 22:01

Hengband's the one that has random energy gains, right? And PosChengband presumably inherited that trait. So at any time you might be double-moved by a monster, or might get a double move against one. Basically it's not safe to assume that you'll have a turn between each monster's turn, even if you're both at normal speed.

Patashu January 15, 2013 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 76358)
Hengband's the one that has random energy gains, right? And PosChengband presumably inherited that trait. So at any time you might be double-moved by a monster, or might get a double move against one. Basically it's not safe to assume that you'll have a turn between each monster's turn, even if you're both at normal speed.

That's even eviller than Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup, which only randomizes the energy for monster movement, not monster attacking/anything else.

Arjen January 15, 2013 06:51

Next bugs found (I bet Ill find more)

As Beholder I went to the sewer at clvl 11 and got drained back by the devilfish to clvl 1. I lost my equipment slot while still being a spectator, after restoring those slots didn't come back. I wasn't wearing rings in them.

Arjen January 15, 2013 12:52

I got an idea for the 'gamble shop'. I kind of miss jewelery gambling. As beholder you can't actually buy a lot except potions and scrolls. My cash is piling up and I can't spend it. ;)

chris January 15, 2013 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arjen (Post 76365)
Next bugs found (I bet Ill find more)

As Beholder I went to the sewer at clvl 11 and got drained back by the devilfish to clvl 1. I lost my equipment slot while still being a spectator, after restoring those slots didn't come back. I wasn't wearing rings in them.

I fixed this for the next release but I think a workaround is to restore your life, save and exit the game, and then restart. Can you recall if your slots came back eventually? Surely you didn't play with no rings until L25!

Xorns are similarly susceptible. (FYI, the bug is using player level to determine the equipment template rather than the current monster form).

Arjen January 15, 2013 16:00

I tried the reloading and it worked.

Arjen January 16, 2013 07:27

In the recharge shop of Zul both recharge options says "recharge item", but the second one should be "recharge all items". The other towns have the right description.

*edit*

Being an Air Hound sort of sucks... A lot of monsters resist poison which renders your second melee attack rather useless. I don't like pure elemental damage as melee attacks. You should made them being branded by said element so you will always at least do base damage.

Next character I hope I get another form who can actually kill kobolds/trolls/orcs/undead/ect. ;)

MrBims January 16, 2013 22:00

Every time I try to play a Snotling [anything], I end up dying to some 50' creature like a Newt getting chain attacks on me as I 'tremble' in fear. While humorous in the schadenfreude of it, I have to ask, is there anything I'm doing wrong or not doing that I should be doing, or are Snotlings just a really difficult or joke race? I like the idea of having garbage stats but fast level gain.

Arjen January 17, 2013 06:28

Snotlings are just hard to play. I can't play with them.

As to poschangband: I was walking around in town, visiting the Alchemy Shop where 3 ?oArtifact Creation caught my eye (haha, little pun as Im playing Beholder). But in the 5 3 of those scrolls! And only 280k a piece. Too bad I had like... 20k as I was level 18. Just letting you know, 3 is a crowd.

Arjen January 17, 2013 08:37

Found a major bug at the Arena, I went in to fight the mithril golem. A townsman entered with me because he was next to me when I entered. Inside I killed him to have him out of the way. "Victorious! You're on your way to becoming Champion." The golem is still alive... I checked if I could leave, it worked. (Didn't want it to do it this way, but I wanted to be sure I could leave the Arena for a complete bugreport).

Would be bad if you 'killed' all the monsters this way.

chris January 17, 2013 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBims (Post 76408)
Every time I try to play a Snotling [anything], I end up dying to some 50' creature like a Newt getting chain attacks on me as I 'tremble' in fear. While humorous in the schadenfreude of it, I have to ask, is there anything I'm doing wrong or not doing that I should be doing, or are Snotlings just a really difficult or joke race? I like the idea of having garbage stats but fast level gain.

Try playing a Snotling Armageddon High Mage and don't let anything touch you!

chris January 17, 2013 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arjen (Post 76417)
Found a major bug at the Arena, I went in to fight the mithril golem. A townsman entered with me because he was next to me when I entered. Inside I killed him to have him out of the way. "Victorious! You're on your way to becoming Champion." The golem is still alive... I checked if I could leave, it worked. (Didn't want it to do it this way, but I wanted to be sure I could leave the Arena for a complete bugreport).

Would be bad if you 'killed' all the monsters this way.

Good catch. I fixed this for next release.

Quote:

I was walking around in town, visiting the Alchemy Shop where 3 ?oArtifact Creation caught my eye (haha, little pun as Im playing Beholder). But in the 5 3 of those scrolls! And only 280k a piece. Too bad I had like... 20k as I was level 18. Just letting you know, 3 is a crowd.
Yes, the Alchemy shop will stock them but as of 1.0.1, they should no longer stack. The thing is, shop stocking now uses the same object allocation code as generating objects in the dungeon, so you need to get really (*really*) lucky to find one! Its the same odds as finding one in the dungeon on DL20.

Quote:

Being an Air Hound sort of sucks... A lot of monsters resist poison which renders your second melee attack rather useless. I don't like pure elemental damage as melee attacks. You should made them being branded by said element so you will always at least do base damage.
For next release I think I will just remove the branding altogether. I don't want them to have extra damage since you will lose this next time you evolve and be disappointed!

Thanks for all the playtesting/feedback!!

MrBims January 17, 2013 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris (Post 76419)
Try playing a Snotling Armageddon High Mage and don't let anything touch you!

Actually already thought of that, died at Level 15 to some unique humanoid 500' down. Was greedy of me, he might have been able to get further if I had farmed shallower levels more. Its probably the one of the only ways to play a Snotling and not die to fear immediately.

Arjen January 18, 2013 16:15

Hmm, I can't post a screenshot. It gives an error:

Quote:

Unsupported variant!!!
Please fill in your email!
I don't get the second one either, as I'm logged in.

Arjen January 18, 2013 17:00

Just killed Ares, he didn't drop his hat...

chris January 18, 2013 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arjen (Post 76446)
Just killed Ares, he didn't drop his hat...

Olympians no longer drop 100%. They are also a bit easier than in Chengband (but Ares is no pushover!!).

Arjen January 18, 2013 17:10

Ares is when you have a 300-400 damage darkness storm and resist teleport. ;) But too bad, I wanted to check if I could get a blow from it.

Found the Ring of Destruction with all it's brands, but those don't work... 9d9 brand all eye was just a dream. ;) But the malus on that ring are bad too.

(Nice job on the new artifacts, I like the magic based lamps too). Now if only monsters who drop {good} could drop more jewelry.

Darin January 20, 2013 20:50

For the comp I managed to compile v1.0.3 for the Mac (X11 only, Intel only). But the inventory percentages look, well, a bit off, so I don't know what other interesting numbers there may be, or if it is a cosmetic problem or something worse. I was able to play through a game with no obvious problems, though.

big_inventory_percentage

chris January 20, 2013 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darin (Post 76501)
For the comp I managed to compile v1.0.3 for the Mac (X11 only, Intel only). But the inventory percentages look, well, a bit off, so I don't know what other interesting numbers there may be, or if it is a cosmetic problem or something worse. I was able to play through a game with no obvious problems, though.

big_inventory_percentage

In cmd3.c on line 55 is the following code:
Code:

sprintf(out_val, "Inventory: carrying %d.%d pounds (%ld%% of capacity). Command: ",
  (int)(p_ptr->total_weight / 10),
  (int)(p_ptr->total_weight % 10),
  (p_ptr->total_weight * 100) / weight_limit());

The total_weight field seems correct. But I wonder if the %ld is wrong. The field is really an int and we should probably use %d instead. Could you make this change and recompile?

BTW, I've seen a lot of %ld and casting things to long throughout the code base. This makes me nervous as a long is 64 bits for 64-bit compiles while an int is still just 32 bits.

Also, if you get a Mac makefile working, could you email me a copy (perhaps with instructions). I've had interest in a mac compile for Chengband before but could never oblige as I don't have access to a mac. My email address is ckousky at gmail dot com.

Thanks!

Darin January 21, 2013 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris (Post 76505)
In cmd3.c on line 55 is the following code:
Code:

sprintf(out_val, "Inventory: carrying %d.%d pounds (%ld%% of capacity). Command: ",
  (int)(p_ptr->total_weight / 10),
  (int)(p_ptr->total_weight % 10),
  (p_ptr->total_weight * 100) / weight_limit());

The total_weight field seems correct. But I wonder if the %ld is wrong. The field is really an int and we should probably use %d instead. Could you make this change and recompile?

BTW, I've seen a lot of %ld and casting things to long throughout the code base. This makes me nervous as a long is 64 bits for 64-bit compiles while an int is still just 32 bits.

Also, if you get a Mac makefile working, could you email me a copy (perhaps with instructions). I've had interest in a mac compile for Chengband before but could never oblige as I don't have access to a mac. My email address is ckousky at gmail dot com.

Thanks!

Yup, that fixed it. I actually didn't get the mac makefile working, since I have never gotten any of the mac makefiles for variants of earlier Angband versions to work with recent Mac OS X versions. I used the makefile.linux, and even then I had to get rid of the GCU code. So as far as I can tell one would need an Intel mac with X11 or XQuartz to use the binary I made. And as with the Halls of Mist binary, one will have to rename the save file to something like "501.<username>".

Qyx January 21, 2013 05:18

On starting the game, looked for help with selecting a race... got "Cannot open 'races.txt'..." Noticed the actual file in /lib is 'Races.txt'...

chris January 21, 2013 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qyx (Post 76517)
On starting the game, looked for help with selecting a race... got "Cannot open 'races.txt'..." Noticed the actual file in /lib is 'Races.txt'...

Thanks for the catch. It works OK on windows (case preserving) but not on linux (case sensitive). It will be fixed in the next release I push, but I'm generally waiting for game crash bugs to push new releases. In the meantime, you can rename the file as 'races.txt' and it should work for you. (Note: The helpfiles for Warlocks and Weaponmasters still need to be written).

AnonymousHero January 21, 2013 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris (Post 76505)
BTW, I've seen a lot of %ld and casting things to long throughout the code base. This makes me nervous as a long is 64 bits for 64-bit compiles while an int is still just 32 bits.

Yeah, this is really an annoying part of the C89 standard printf(). The only really portable way to get this working properly (without always casting) on 32 and 64 bit is to use format string defines, so something like:

Code:

#ifdef ON_64_BIT_PLATFORM
#define FMTs32 "%d"
#define FMTu32 "%u"
#else
#define FMTs32 "%ld"
#define FMTu32 "%lu"
#endif

and then use them as follows:

Code:

    int32_t foo = 123;
    printf("something " FMTs32 " something something.", x);

(note that int32_t is also C99.)

The only other way is simply using "int" everywhere, but that may not be sufficient on all compilers/platforms.

Qyx January 28, 2013 19:52

Maybe a dumb question... is there an easy way to avoid destroying scrolls of summons?

Qyx January 29, 2013 03:48

Minor bug (or perhaps not, but seems like it might be):

Confusion affecting target after already slain:

>>You have slain the Novice rogue.
>>Your Claw stops glowing.
>>The Novice rogue appears confused.

chris January 29, 2013 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qyx (Post 76744)
Maybe a dumb question... is there an easy way to avoid destroying scrolls of summons?

Do you mean Scrolls of Summon Monster? An easy way is to open up your pickup preferences file (Press '_') and simply type
Code:

summon monster
on a blank line.

chris January 29, 2013 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qyx (Post 76764)
Minor bug (or perhaps not, but seems like it might be):

Confusion affecting target after already slain:

>>You have slain the Novice rogue.
>>Your Claw stops glowing.
>>The Novice rogue appears confused.

That's a bug ... It will be fixed for next release.

Qyx January 29, 2013 17:39

Thanks, I did use that method, but wasn't sure if it had implications since I'd been using the "easy autopicker settings" til then.

Also, just noticed, had a thief (Bullroarer) steal some money, but when I killed it, it didn't drop the money. Is that intended?

chris January 29, 2013 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qyx (Post 76797)
Thanks, I did use that method, but wasn't sure if it had implications since I'd been using the "easy autopicker settings" til then.

Also, just noticed, had a thief (Bullroarer) steal some money, but when I killed it, it didn't drop the money. Is that intended?

Yes, you lose any stolen gold permanently. However, stolen objects can be retrieved by killing the thief.

emulord January 29, 2013 23:03

So theres been a change I want to request for every variant with "personality".
Reduce munchkin bonuses by at least half. It doesn't allow newbies to learn how to play the game since the stats are so out of alignment with a regular character's stats. The only way to make it remotely fair is to have a pathetic race/class combination like yeek tourist or such. +2/+3 every stat and more hit dice and good skills is plenty.

AnonymousHero January 30, 2013 05:31

It appears that there's a bug with WEIRD_MIND in 1.0.3. (Compiled on 64-bit Linux from source.)

The description off the old Chengband wiki says it grants RES_CONF, but it doesn't any longer (apparently). However, the character sheet shows a "+" in the "@" column even though the percentage is "0%".

I don't know if the removal of RES_CONF was intentional (it does seem to make the Weird Mind ability pretty useless), but there's some inconsistency here that should probably be fixed.

emulord January 30, 2013 22:52

For races with evolution, it helps to add more intermediate steps.
The joy of evolution is awesome, and its one of my favorite pieces of PosBand.
Aka, Jellies where they only gain like 1 equipment slot per evolution, but more steps.
Or Demons that slowly get worse stealth and better stats/resists over several evolutions. This might make endgame easier, but that is okay because being doublemoved by endgame uniques already makes endgame extremely dangerous.

chris January 31, 2013 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by emulord (Post 76848)
For races with evolution, it helps to add more intermediate steps.
The joy of evolution is awesome, and its one of my favorite pieces of PosBand.
Aka, Jellies where they only gain like 1 equipment slot per evolution, but more steps.
Or Demons that slowly get worse stealth and better stats/resists over several evolutions. This might make endgame easier, but that is okay because being doublemoved by endgame uniques already makes endgame extremely dangerous.

Demons definitely need more steps, but in all cases, I am limited by the content of the bestiary since each form currently requires a corresponding monster to exist. Adding more steps would require adding more monsters as well (Which might be OK). Also, Hengband has the concept of monster evolution (monster pets gain experience and evolve into higher forms) so for the most part, I tried to stay true to what the game already offered. But there is really no strong reason to do this, and I did deviate in several cases (Hounds and Jellies come to mind).

Some monster races already have fairly good evolution. For example, Angels evolve as Angel -> Archangel (L10) -> Cherub (L20) -> Seraph (L30) -> Archon (L40) -> Planetar (L45) -> Solar (L50). Other good examples are elemental dragons that have 5 forms (4 evolutions). But I guess the races with only 1 or 2 evolutions could use some work. I do find that the early evolutions can blur by since leveling to 30 can be done fairly quickly. But early weak racial forms can provide a bit of satisfaction once you overcome them.

I should also point out that for most monster races some things improve gradually with level as well. For example, any race with innate melee attacks will have their attacks improve using a level based formula. Dragon breaths do damage based on level (and hp). Giant boulders do damage based on level. And number of innate blows are calculated based on player stats rather than automatically granted based upon the corresponding monster. Also, demons get speed bonuses as well as some resistance bonuses based on level in addition to evolution in order to compensate for their lack of monster forms.

I'll try to come up with some more intermediate steps for the sparse monster races, but I'd be OK with at least 4 forms apiece. Thoughts?

chris January 31, 2013 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by emulord (Post 76810)
So theres been a change I want to request for every variant with "personality".
Reduce munchkin bonuses by at least half. It doesn't allow newbies to learn how to play the game since the stats are so out of alignment with a regular character's stats. The only way to make it remotely fair is to have a pathetic race/class combination like yeek tourist or such. +2/+3 every stat and more hit dice and good skills is plenty.

Good idea. I went with +3 to all stats and about half the current skills bonus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonymousHero (Post 76815)
It appears that there's a bug with WEIRD_MIND in 1.0.3. (Compiled on 64-bit Linux from source.)

The description off the old Chengband wiki says it grants RES_CONF, but it doesn't any longer (apparently). However, the character sheet shows a "+" in the "@" column even though the percentage is "0%".

I don't know if the removal of RES_CONF was intentional (it does seem to make the Weird Mind ability pretty useless), but there's some inconsistency here that should probably be fixed.

Chengband spoilers will only mislead you for PosChengband as their have been literally hundreds of changes. Personally, I'm not a fan of spoilers and would rather the help files give enough info so that the player can make informed choices without giving everything away. But I'm still working on getting the help files into shape and promise to have that finished by 1.1.0. So my apologies in the meantime!

For Wierd Mind, the confusion resistance still showing up in the player dump is a bug which I fixed for next release (1.0.4). The talent grants immunity to the Eldritch Horror and immunity to hallucination, but no longer grants resistance to confusion or stuns. As for whether that is useful or not, well, it depends how much you hate the Eldritch Horror :) Also note that immunity to hallucination is rather useful in my opinion. If you only have a single source of chaos resistance you can still be made to hallucinate if you fail a saving throw (about 9%). Hallucination can be quite fatal later on in the game.

Thanks for the feedback!
Chris

AnonymousHero January 31, 2013 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris (Post 76875)
Chengband spoilers will only mislead you for PosChengband as their have been literally hundreds of changes. Personally, I'm not a fan of spoilers and would rather the help files give enough info so that the player can make informed choices without giving everything away. But I'm still working on getting the help files into shape and promise to have that finished by 1.1.0. So my apologies in the meantime!

Fair enough.


Quote:

Originally Posted by chris (Post 76875)
For Wierd Mind, the confusion resistance still showing up in the player dump is a bug which I fixed for next release (1.0.4). The talent grants immunity to the Eldritch Horror and immunity to hallucination, but no longer grants resistance to confusion or stuns. As for whether that is useful or not, well, it depends how much you hate the Eldritch Horror :) Also note that immunity to hallucination is rather useful in my opinion. If you only have a single source of chaos resistance you can still be made to hallucinate if you fail a saving throw (about 9%). Hallucination can be quite fatal later on in the game.

Fair enough about the changes -- it was just the inconsistency that I thought was a bug.

I haven't really played any characters to the end game, so I'll take your word that it might still be useful. Will two sources of RES_CHAOS prevent Hallucination completely?

Qyx February 1, 2013 03:12

Not sure if I missed it, but don't see any way to turn off the buyout button, or force it to prompt. Didn't see anywhere in the options to remap the key either.

Does such an option exist?

chris February 1, 2013 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qyx (Post 76893)
Not sure if I missed it, but don't see any way to turn off the buyout button, or force it to prompt. Didn't see anywhere in the options to remap the key either.

Does such an option exist?

No, but I can add a prompt for next release if desired. I assume you accidentally pressed 'b' and spent a bunch of gold?

Qyx February 3, 2013 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris (Post 76905)
No, but I can add a prompt for next release if desired. I assume you accidentally pressed 'b' and spent a bunch of gold?

Exactly. A couple of times... (one would think you'd only make that mistake once, but some of us don't really learn from our mistakes! And of course, I only made the mistake when I had huge amounts saved up as well!)

How are the daily wanted monsters generated? I've had the same target ("horse") for several game days now.

Djabanete February 4, 2013 18:45

It's keyed to whatever films Chris has recently watched; in this case, The Godfather.

chris February 5, 2013 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qyx (Post 76925)
How are the daily wanted monsters generated? I've had the same target ("horse") for several game days now.

Daily wanted monsters are chosen randomly based on the maximum dungeon level you have visited. They are chosen at midnight each day, which is skipped if you rest over night in the Inn, I think. Also, it is possible to choose the same monster as before, though I think this would be unlikely.

kingvictory2003 February 6, 2013 07:15

Hey Chris, just reporting a major bug here in my latest character, a club weaponmaster. Every weapon I wield is reported as "Just lifting" on the equipment screen, and as you can see in the dump, I get 1 blow per round with Totila at near-max strength, and max dex. I wonder if it had anything with me using combat expertise briefly or trade blows? Not sure what triggered it.

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=13972

chris February 6, 2013 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingvictory2003 (Post 76976)
Hey Chris, just reporting a major bug here in my latest character, a club weaponmaster. Every weapon I wield is reported as "Just lifting" on the equipment screen, and as you can see in the dump, I get 1 blow per round with Totila at near-max strength, and max dex. I wonder if it had anything with me using combat expertise briefly or trade blows? Not sure what triggered it.

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=13972

Yeah, I found that one as well. Restarting the game gives a temporary fix, but I guess I'll just push 1.0.4. I keep telling myself to wait until I clean up the help files ... someday.

So, you can get 1.0.4 here.

Some of the changes include:
* Munchkin personality is less of a munchkin
* Touch of Confusion no longer confuses a dead foe for innate attacks.
* Cunning Strike (Clubmaster) now always has a chance to stun.
* Knockback is now 2 sqaures for each hit (Polearm master).
* Fleet of Foot is marginally improved (Still not as good as Chengband, though).
* Monster races get permanent heroism after slaying their boss.
* Armageddon damage amounts dialed down for Inertia and Disintegration breaths.
* Kamikaze Warrior's weaponmastery now works.
* Invulnerability and Berserk Rage now give total immunity to fear.
* Weird Mind no longer lies in the player dump (i.e., you don't get resist confusion).
* Jellies are now invulnerable to hunger based attacks.
* Player is far less likely to be insta-knocked out by monster criticals (i.e., going from no stun status to knocked out from a single blow).
* New Demigod Talent: Black Marketeer.
* When choosing a demigod talent, there is now a browse feature. The descriptions should be accurate. You won't get any powers that aren't at least hinted at in the descriptions.
* Added a prompt for the store buyout option. You are only prompted if "Disturb Minor" is turned on, though.
* Demigod parentage descriptions should now be accurate. You won't get any powers that aren't at least hinted at in the descriptions.
* Ego items of Power Throwing now enhance Club Toss and Dagger Toss.
* Jellies can now get up to 7 blows. They get a more favorable multiplier for calculating number of blows since they cannot use two "hands" to wield weapons.
* Demigods always get their family artifact from slaying their parent.
* Fixed bug with wielding heavy weapons described above.

chris February 8, 2013 23:48

1.0.5 is available here

* Added new class: The Mystic. (Available under the Martial Arts birth option).
* Monks and Forcetrainers now get their correct number of blows.
* Monks and Forcetrainers now get the two-handed martial arts bonus.
* Maulers should be working now

Darin February 9, 2013 02:06

I just downloaded the source for 1.0.5, and mystic.c seems to be missing.

chris February 9, 2013 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darin (Post 77097)
I just downloaded the source for 1.0.5, and mystic.c seems to be missing.

Oops .. I uploaded a new poscheng-105-src.zip file that includes mystic.c. It has the same file name so hopefully your browser cache does not get confused.

I also booted into linux and checked a compile. Seems to work OK.

Darin February 9, 2013 03:59

I downloaded and compiled and it works fine now. Thanks!

AnonymousHero February 9, 2013 08:35

I was contemplating patching some of the printf/64bit-related stuff and noticed that there's a lot of "#ifdef JP" preprocessor stuff which complicates things... @Chris: Are you actually intending to support JP or would it be OK to just remove it?

chris February 9, 2013 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonymousHero (Post 77102)
I was contemplating patching some of the printf/64bit-related stuff and noticed that there's a lot of "#ifdef JP" preprocessor stuff which complicates things... @Chris: Are you actually intending to support JP or would it be OK to just remove it?

I've begun removing the Japanese support since, as you noticed, it really messes up the code base.

Also, I did roll thru the code base replacing %ld with %d when used with 32 bit variables. When using %ld with longs, I changed it to %d with ints. Clearly the code was old enough that it was written at a time when ints where 16-bits so that a 32-bit variable required %ld. Now ints are 32-bits and %ld requires a 64-bit variable for 64-bit compiles. If you find things that are incorrect in the 1.0.5 codebase, can you let me know? Thanks.

AnonymousHero February 9, 2013 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris (Post 77106)
I've begun removing the Japanese support since, as you noticed, it really messes up the code base.

Also, I did roll thru the code base replacing %ld with %d when used with 32 bit variables. When using %ld with longs, I changed it to %d with ints. Clearly the code was old enough that it was written at a time when ints where 16-bits so that a 32-bit variable required %ld. Now ints are 32-bits and %ld requires a 64-bit variable for 64-bit compiles. If you find things that are incorrect in the 1.0.5 codebase, can you let me know? Thanks.

There are definitely issues with format strings. (The basic issue is essentially impossible to fix without the use of format string macros if you want to be able to compile on both 32-bit and 64-bit.)

Do you have a repository (git, hg, whatever) somewhere which we can submit patches against?

chris February 9, 2013 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonymousHero (Post 76531)
Yeah, this is really an annoying part of the C89 standard printf(). The only really portable way to get this working properly (without always casting) on 32 and 64 bit is to use format string defines, so something like:

Code:

#ifdef ON_64_BIT_PLATFORM
#define FMTs32 "%d"
#define FMTu32 "%u"
#else
#define FMTs32 "%ld"
#define FMTu32 "%lu"
#endif

and then use them as follows:

Code:

    int32_t foo = 123;
    printf("something " FMTs32 " something something.", x);

(note that int32_t is also C99.)

The only other way is simply using "int" everywhere, but that may not be sufficient on all compilers/platforms.

But isn't this incorrect?
Code:

    int32_t foo = 123;
    printf("%d", foo);

works just fine for both 32 bit and 64 bit compiles. Or am I missing something?

AnonymousHero February 9, 2013 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris (Post 77116)
But isn't this incorrect?
Code:

    int32_t foo = 123;
    printf("%d", foo);

works just fine for both 32 bit and 64 bit compiles. Or am I missing something?

I haven't look at the actual code yet, but there seems to be overflow when displaying negative numbers in the stat display (both for EXP and HP).

Even if it may work in practice, "%d" is not guaranteed to work for int32_t, only "int". You need to use

[code]
printf(PRId32, foo);
[code]

to be compliant with the standard.

chris February 9, 2013 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonymousHero (Post 77118)
I haven't look at the actual code yet, but there seems to be overflow when displaying negative numbers in the stat display (both for EXP and HP).

Even if it may work in practice, "%d" is not guaranteed to work for int32_t, only "int". You need to use

[code]
printf(PRId32, foo);
[code]

to be compliant with the standard.

Agreed. I was just pointing out that using "%ld" on an known 32 bit int was unnecessary for 32 bit compiles and that the current printf code will work for both compiles, while is obviously bound to break in the future, and is also obviously not the ideal solution.

I'm not sure about the XP, HP issue. Can you post a screen dump? The code is not using printf for these fields, but rather Angband's hand-coded printf substitute: format.

AnonymousHero February 9, 2013 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris (Post 77121)
I'm not sure about the XP, HP issue. Can you post a screen dump? The code is not using printf for these fields, but rather Angband's hand-coded printf substitute: format.

Don't have a screenshot at hand, but it should be pretty easy to recreate on a 64-bit compile: Enable the "exp_need" option and level up. This causes a very long number to be displayed -- in fact it "spills" into the column which is supposed to be the gap between stats and the dungeon/map.

Anyway, I'm sure I can fix these pretty easily myself if you have a repository somewhere that I can base my work on....

chris February 9, 2013 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonymousHero (Post 77122)
Don't have a screenshot at hand, but it should be pretty easy to recreate on a 64-bit compile: Enable the "exp_need" option and level up. This causes a very long number to be displayed -- in fact it "spills" into the column which is supposed to be the gap between stats and the dungeon/map.

Anyway, I'm sure I can fix these pretty easily myself if you have a repository somewhere that I can base my work on....

Oh, OK. I thought you meant the experience field on the character dump. The one you are referring to is
Code:

static void prt_exp(void)
in xtra1.c and it looks like I missed this one! (I know why now ... I searched globally for %ld and this one has %8ld ... sigh):
Code:

(void)sprintf(out_val, "%8ld", exp_requirement(p_ptr->lev) - p_ptr->exp);
If you replace the ld with d in this routine, you should work. exp_requirement returns an int and p_ptr->exp is a s32b (which is also an int).

I guess I'll do another regexp search through the code to see what else I find. There are a lot of printf's in the code (thousands!) and it would take a long time to change them all. Are you sure you want to do this?

Aside: I looked thru the format() code and it ultimately ends up calling sprintf and otherwise seems to be OK.

EDIT: There are ~4,100 format strings in the code base. Also, one needs to be able to handle fixed width fields. There are an awful lot of "%4d" and the like ...

chris February 9, 2013 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonymousHero (Post 77122)
Anyway, I'm sure I can fix these pretty easily myself if you have a repository somewhere that I can base my work on....

I think I have them all this time. I uploaded (1.0.6) source code here. The only changes should be changes to format strings for 64-bit compiles so I did not upload a Windows binary. Next release will be 1.0.7.

I don't have a repository on the web at the moment and am resisting putting one up. I used Google Code in the past and its amazing how often it is down and how fantastically slow it can get. If people are interested in long term collaboration on features and what not, I can put one up.

AnonymousHero February 9, 2013 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris (Post 77123)
EDIT: There are ~4,100 format strings in the code base. Also, one needs to be able to handle fixed width fields. There are an awful lot of "%4d" and the like ...

Yay C! :D

(Filler for anti-spam filter.)

AnonymousHero February 10, 2013 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris (Post 77125)
I don't have a repository on the web at the moment and am resisting putting one up. I used Google Code in the past and its amazing how often it is down and how fantastically slow it can get. If people are interested in long term collaboration on features and what not, I can put one up.

I'm guessing you used Subversion?

If so, I'd really recommend that you use git instead. When using git you don't really need the repository servers to be up all the time (or even much of the time for that matter). Having said that, I think github.com is pretty dang reliable. There's also bitbucket.org. (You can even have the code hosted in both places -- git makes this pretty easy too.)

chris February 11, 2013 17:58

1.0.7 is available in the usual place:

* Fixed a nasty bug for Shadow-Fairy light vulnerability. Thanks to r@ss.com for pointing this out.
* Added Hydras as a player monster race just so this release would have some heft. Hydras can get up to 5 helmet and amulet equipment slots, and up to 11 attacks per round. Getting enough speed for the endgame might be problematic, though. The boss is The Lernean Hydra and the reward was suggested by Djabanete a long time ago.

chris February 13, 2013 23:57

1.0.8 is available here

* Capture Balls should now be working. Note: Capture Balls go in your shield slot, so if you play a monster race that cannot use shields, then you cannot use Capture Balls either.

* Rebalanced the Hydra monster race.

* Added a new monster race: The Leprechaun. Leprechauns start the game with a pot of gold, possess the luck of the Irish, are fast and stealthy. Many of their powers are influenced by how much gold they have on hand. But they are rather small and weak. If the leprechaun does not wield a normal weapon, then they have low damage innate attacks that pilfer items and gold from their foes.

buzzkill February 16, 2013 15:59

1 Attachment(s)
Ah, they're after me lucky charms. Sounds awesome!

Djabanete February 20, 2013 05:51

Does anyone (especially Chris) know if there's a way to edit my autosquelch preferences from outside the game? I find the in-game interface a bit cumbersome; I wouldn't complain about it if I didn't download new versions so often. Ideally there would be a text file somewhere in the file structure?

(For all I know this already exists.)
Thanks!

@Chris: I'm very much gratified that you have me on the credits screen, but now that there is no longer space
for the "great ideas by..." clause (which was already generous!), I seem to appear on the same footing as many
vastly more essential people (developers of Moria, Hengband, Posband, etc.) Since my contributions have been
so minor, especially compared with the efforts you've put into this project, I don't think that I really belong on the credits screen anymore :)

I do appreciate the thoughtfulness though.

Edit: Great UI changes in character setup and character sheet. But what does it mean when "The Large brown snake appears weakened"? I'm playing a Wild Talent with Vampiric Drain. (Who's already dead, by the way. Must purchase a sling next time.)

chris February 20, 2013 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djabanete (Post 77396)
Does anyone (especially Chris) know if there's a way to edit my autosquelch preferences from outside the game? I find the in-game interface a bit cumbersome; I wouldn't complain about it if I didn't download new versions so often. Ideally there would be a text file somewhere in the file structure?

The global pickup preference file is in lib/pref/pickpref.prf. You can edit this file once and it will be used as the basis for all *future* characters. This file is distributed in the zipfiles so if you don't like what I am sending, build your own version but keep it off to the side someplace to copy back after installing.

When you press '_' to invoke the in game editor, lib/pref/pickpref.prf is copied to lib/user/pickpref-PLAYER.prf where PLAYER is your current character's name. This is the file that is actually read and processed by the game so is the file you must edit for *current* characters.

You may edit this file outside the game, but I'm not sure what happens if you do this while the game is currently running. I usually stop the game, hand edit lib/user/pickpref-PLAYER.prf in Notepad or whatever, and then restart the game.

Quote:

@Chris: I'm very much gratified that you have me on the credits screen, but now that there is no longer space
for the "great ideas by..." clause (which was already generous!), I seem to appear on the same footing as many
vastly more essential people (developers of Moria, Hengband, Posband, etc.) Since my contributions have been
so minor, especially compared with the efforts you've put into this project, I don't think that I really belong on the credits screen anymore :)
I think you helped out quite a bit on Chengband. If it weren't for you, we'd all be wielding rand-art phials of pizza! I can take you off if you like, but I think you certainly belong on the credits. And everyone should realize that Chengband was built on the mountain of efforts by other developers on other variants, all the way back to Moria. What I have added has been small by this measure as well :)

Quote:

Edit: Great UI changes in character setup and character sheet. But what does it mean when "The Large brown snake appears weakened"? I'm playing a Wild Talent with Vampiric Drain. (Who's already dead, by the way. Must purchase a sling next time.)
Drain Life lowers a monsters max hitpoints. So, if you let that large brown snake regenerate, it would never regenerate all the way back to full health. Most of the time, this side effect of drain life is meaningless, but it is important for fighting battles of attrition versus monsters you couldn't otherwise kill. It is the only way to kill Demeter in Chengband, for example. Its also important when it happens to your mount if you are playing a Beastmaster or Cavalry.

Djabanete February 20, 2013 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris (Post 77408)
in Notepad or whatever

Revelation! I didn't know I could edit that stuff using Notepad. That's just what I was hoping for.

Quote:

I think you helped out quite a bit on Chengband. If it weren't for you, we'd all be wielding rand-art phials of pizza! I can take you off if you like, but I think you certainly belong on the credits. And everyone should realize that Chengband was built on the mountain of efforts by other developers on other variants, all the way back to Moria. What I have added has been small by this measure as well :)
All right! I spoke not out of a particular desire for anonymity, but just because I figured you'd spent gazillions more hours coding than I ever did suggesting. But if my feedback has been helpful, that's great :)

Quote:

drain life
Cool. Never knew.

Edit:
@Chris: I encountered a bug with the Time-Lord's "Bolt" ability. Sometimes it would work fine, but sometimes it would shoot in a seemingly random direction without asking me which direction I wanted. Like an idiot, I quit and started a new character in that same savefile, in order to hunt down the exact circumstances that produced the bug, without copying the savefile for you to see it. Then I failed completely at reproducing the bug. Somehow, "Bolt" glitched on that one character (even when I stopped and restarted the game), but I can't make it happen again.

Edit2: Ignore the above "bug". I had "repeat old target" on "yes" by mistake. I never use that option and became very confused by it, and I'm sure that's the source of the error. My mistake ;)

Djabanete February 25, 2013 07:48

After playing a bit, here's my braindump. I hope some of it might prove helpful.

[Nitpick] In character dumps: under the Powers section it's "Lvl", but
under the Spells section, it's "Lv". Under Powers, "Desc", but under
Spells, "Effect".

[Nitpick] When not wielding any weapon, pressing "w" from the
character screen gives no response. Perhaps a screen or message
could appear that says "You are not wielding a weapon." (Or
something to that effect.)

[Reaction] Fail rates on scrolls? Seriously, Chris? Oh God. This is
going to be very, very painful. I'm really not sure this is needed, but I
expect you have a rationale. (True, ?Tele has long been an easy get-out-of-jail-free card. But if that bothers you, I prefer the Crawl approach of adding a time lag without making all other scrolls inconvenient to use. Also, I don't even think ?Tele was unbalanced, because you could land in hotter water than where you started.)

[Reaction] Character creation interface overhaul; character dump overhaul; character screen overhaul; dedicated weapons panel: Sweet!!! I really like seeing this kind of improvement. I'm sure it's less fun for you to implement than some other stuff, but it adds a lot to the game. Thanks for doing this. (IMO, even more could be done in this direction, but it's a great improvement already.)

[Reaction/Question] Percentile resists. I like it, although some aspects remain obscure to me. When you're examining an item, how do you know how much resistance it provides?

[Nitpick] When you try to invoke your racial/class powers, powers that are too high-level for you to have yet are displayed and greyed out if they are class powers, but not displayed at all if they are racial powers. Seems weird.

[Question] I don't understand what the "Crits" section of the weapons panel means, or what the bracketed numbers mean.

[Question/Nitpick] How does two-handed wielding work now? When I'm empty-handed and try to wield a cutlass, I can choose my right hand or left. If I choose right, I end up single-wielding, and if I choose left, I end up two-handed wielding. If two-handed wielding still confers a benefit, wouldn't I want to just two-handed wield by default? And if not, isn't left/right a sort of veiled and obscure way to present the choice to the player?

... Everything here is meant in the spirit of constructive critique, of course. Thanks again for all your efforts. PosChengband remains a very fun and deep game with many surprises!

chris February 25, 2013 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djabanete (Post 77499)
After playing a bit, here's my braindump. I hope some of it might prove helpful.

[Nitpick] In character dumps: under the Powers section it's "Lvl", but under the Spells section, it's "Lv". Under Powers, "Desc", but under Spells, "Effect".

[Nitpick] When not wielding any weapon, pressing "w" from the character screen gives no response. Perhaps a screen or message could appear that says "You are not wielding a weapon." (Or something to that effect.)

[Nitpick] When you try to invoke your racial/class powers, powers that are too high-level for you to have yet are displayed and greyed out if they are class powers, but not displayed at all if they are racial powers. Seems weird.

Done, done and done (1.0.9).

Quote:

[Reaction] Fail rates on scrolls? Seriously, Chris? Oh God. This is
going to be very, very painful. I'm really not sure this is needed, but I
expect you have a rationale. (True, ?Tele has long been an easy get-out-of-jail-free card. But if that bothers you, I prefer the Crawl approach of adding a time lag without making all other scrolls inconvenient to use. Also, I don't even think ?Tele was unbalanced, because you could land in hotter water than where you started.)
Well, I've played quite a bit after this change, and the effects are rather small. Its only killed me once (summons RNG wrath!) but that was very early on, and I failed twice in a row. Of course, you might consider bailing sooner than previously for some fights.

As for rationale, my main reason was extreme annoyance that even a mage with a Teleport spell prefers to carry and use scrolls instead. At least until the fail rate goes to 0%. For many classes, this will never happen. So the spells never get used, except perhaps for lazy dungeon exploration late in the game.

As a side note, scrolls of teleportation now have another huge drawback: Reading them takes 50% more energy! Be warned ...

Quote:

[Reaction/Question] Percentile resists. I like it, although some aspects remain obscure to me. When you're examining an item, how do you know how much resistance it provides?
Underneath it all, resistances are still flags. So, objects either have the flag, or they do not. The change is that we now count up the number of sources of resistance and use that count to determine a resistance percent. But there are diminishing returns: 1 source gives 50%, 2 gives 65%, 3 gives 72%, etc (Subject to change in future releases, of course). Also, whenever resistance is applied for damage reduction, we use a normal distribution about the mean value, so you may take more or less damage then you think. Whenever resistances are applied for a saving throw (Confusion, Poison, Disenchantment, Hallucination, etc), we use the stated value as is.

Quote:

[Question] I don't understand what the "Crits" section of the weapons panel means, or what the bracketed numbers mean.
These are critical hits (e.g., "It was a good hit."). Whenever the player scores a critical hit, they get an extra "slay" that stacks on top of other slays. Good hits, for example, give a 2x slay and also add a bit of extra damage on top. *GREAT* hits are 3x slays with a higher plus to damage.

So for example, if your crit line reads: "Crits : 1.13x + 1.01" this means that, after averaging many hits, you get an effective 1.13x extra slay and an effective +1 to damage. Of course, critical blows either happen or they do not, so most strikes will be normal hits (1x slay) while occasionally you get a good (2x slay) or *GREAT* (3x slay) hit.

Bracketed numbers are the effective slay, averaging the effects of criticals and vorpals, and applying any force brand as well. For example, consider:

Code:

Crits  : 1.13x + 1.01       
Normal : 402 (310-495) [1.87x]
Evil  : 542 (355-730) [3.74x]

The weapon is Vorpal Blade which normally has a 2x slay evil. However, the sharpness of vorpal blade gives an extra 1.66x slay (not displayed ... sharp weapons normally give 1.22x but Vorpal Blade is special!) and the criticals give an extra 1.13x slay. So, versus an evil opponent, it does 2 * 1.66 * 1.13 = 3.75 (rounding error?) times whatever is rolled up by the damage dice. Obviously, this is much better than the expected 2x slay from slay evil alone. For non-evil opponents, instead of getting 1 times whatever the damage dice roll, you get 1.66 * 1.13 = 1.87 times whatever the damage dice roll. Could I cast Force Branding, yet another multiplier would be applied (Alas, this character cannot). And of course, these are not per hit multipliers, but statistical averages over a large number of hits.


Quote:

[Question/Nitpick] How does two-handed wielding work now? When I'm empty-handed and try to wield a cutlass, I can choose my right hand or left. If I choose right, I end up single-wielding, and if I choose left, I end up two-handed wielding. If two-handed wielding still confers a benefit, wouldn't I want to just two-handed wield by default? And if not, isn't left/right a sort of veiled and obscure way to present the choice to the player?
I cannot reproduce the situation you describe. Whether I wield a cutlass in my left hand (with right hand empty) or wield the cutlass in my right hand (with left hand empty) it displays as "both hands" in the equipment list. As it should. Can you confirm that it is really not working and send me your savefile?

Djabanete February 25, 2013 23:22

Thanks for the responses, especially on the criticals. I'll have to get back to you on the savefile because I'm not on that computer at the moment. But I did want to ask you about the rationale for the 50% -> 65% -> 72% progression. It looks a lot like the Sil progression (1/2 -> 2/3 -> 3/4 -> 4/5 etc or 50% -> 66% -> 75% -> 80% etc), but seems less... streamlined? I'm curious about this.

Edit:
> As for rationale, my main reason was extreme annoyance that even a mage with a Teleport spell prefers to carry and use scrolls instead. At
> least until the fail rate goes to 0%. For many classes, this will never happen. So the spells never get used, except perhaps for lazy dungeon
> exploration late in the game.

Ah, that does make sense. As a cash-strapped novice mage I often cast Teleport instead of reading the scroll when the situation is ugly but non-lethal --- so I find that there's still game depth when ?Tele is failproof --- but then again, my gameplay methods are particularly conducive to being short of cash, whereas in the default game that's less of an issue. I'll definitely play some more and figure out what I think of the new fail rate after more experience.

Edit2: Does the extra energy use on a ?Tele penalize you before or after you teleport? (Relative to before the change, does it increase the likelihood of dying to monsters in the vicinity you're trying to escape, or in the new place you arrive in?)

chris February 26, 2013 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djabanete (Post 77510)
Thanks for the responses, especially on the criticals. I'll have to get back to you on the savefile because I'm not on that computer at the moment. But I did want to ask you about the rationale for the 50% -> 65% -> 72% progression. It looks a lot like the Sil progression (1/2 -> 2/3 -> 3/4 -> 4/5 etc or 50% -> 66% -> 75% -> 80% etc), but seems less... streamlined? I'm curious about this.

Well, I'm not familiar with Sil, so I'll take your word on that. The progression you give is sort of similar to what we have, but gives nearly 10% higher resists in the high end. That might be OK since it is rare to have more than 3 sources of any resist in my experience (perhaps 4 if you can cast Resistance).

Also, I think the element of randomness is very important. Even if you have 72% resistance and are feeling bold, it is still possible (though unlikely) that that Storm Wyrm could breathe for 450. (Of course, it might breathe for 150 as well ... It works both ways). I'm not sure what Sil does in this regard but Angband has always had random resists for the some forms of attack (Nether, Nexus, Chaos, etc).

Quote:

Does the extra energy use on a ?Tele penalize you before or after you teleport?
You read the scroll and teleport as a single action. Then you get charged energy. So the penalty will occur when you land. If you fail the scroll, then you don't pay extra energy.

As an aside, there are a couple of demigod powers that can mitigate this. One gives faster teleportation and another (coming next release) gives quicker reading of scrolls. But I realize not every character will be a demigod :)

Also, using a staff does not incur the penalty so if you are paranoid, you can use those.

Quote:

my gameplay methods are particularly conducive to being short of cash
Yeah, playing with Vanilla town is almost a different game altogether. In normal town mode with Hengband you get virtually infinite quantities of the basics and the game is hard enough that you need this. Chengband tries to restrict town scumming a bit by limiting the restock triggers such that players need to explore the dungeon a bit. PosChengband goes further and drastically reduces the stack size of various town essentials, but added stacks of certain objects in the dungeon. I'd rather players played to find resources rather than shop scummed.

But I'll need your feedback on whether Vanilla town is playable or not. Lack of the town recharging ability is pretty huge and makes devices other than rods rather worthless in my experience.

Djabanete February 26, 2013 04:00

My two-handed wielding "bug" was another false alarm... really sorry about that. It's like you said, selecting either arm gives two-handed wielding >.<

Request: Disable/optionalize dungeon quests in Vanilla Town mode? Quests aren't "Vanilla" --- admittedly, their interference with gameplay is minor (just duck back up the stairs), but there would be some problems if anyone tried that with Preserve Off.

JohnCW9 February 26, 2013 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris (Post 77506)
Done, done and done (1.0.9).



Well, I've played quite a bit after this change, and the effects are rather small. Its only killed me once (summons RNG wrath!) but that was very early on, and I failed twice in a row. Of course, you might consider bailing sooner than previously for some fights.

As for rationale, my main reason was extreme annoyance that even a mage with a Teleport spell prefers to carry and use scrolls instead. At least until the fail rate goes to 0%. For many classes, this will never happen. So the spells never get used, except perhaps for lazy dungeon exploration late in the game.

As a side note, scrolls of teleportation now have another huge drawback: Reading them takes 50% more energy! Be warned ...


?

This change mr (and posinilty others) less likrly to plsy then nefore this change. ( thiugh I have been busy else whree/

Djabanete February 27, 2013 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnCW9 (Post 77529)
This change mr (and posinilty others) less likrly to plsy then nefore this change. ( thiugh I have been busy else whree/

Brother OKURE!

Edit: Question: If Jellies can't read scrolls, how can they ID things in Vanilla Town mode?

Edit2: Question2: With a Weaponsmith, how do I know in advance how far I can enchant my gear, without risking wasting my essences? There's some algorithm based on level that I don't know.

chris February 27, 2013 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djabanete (Post 77535)
Request: Disable/optionalize dungeon quests in Vanilla Town mode? Quests aren't "Vanilla" --- admittedly, their interference with gameplay is minor (just duck back up the stairs), but there would be some problems if anyone tried that with Preserve Off.

Done (1.0.9). Vanilla Town mode now forces the number of random quests to 0 (no option for now).

Quote:

Question: If Jellies can't read scrolls, how can they ID things in Vanilla Town mode?
Jellies need to use staves of perception to identify stuff. If this is not enough, perhaps we could make it so that selling wands/staves to the Magic Shop recharges them as well? Another alternative is to let jellies in on the berserker vanilla town hack which gives a couple of (expensive) black market commands for identify and *identify*. Thoughts?

Quote:

Question2: With a Weaponsmith, how do I know in advance how far I can enchant my gear, without risking wasting my essences? There's some algorithm based on level that I don't know.
Weapons and bows can enchant to 5 + 15L/50. Arrows enchant to 10L/50.

Djabanete February 27, 2013 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris (Post 77544)
Done (1.0.9). Vanilla Town mode now forces the number of random quests to 0 (no option for now).

Thanks, and thanks for the weaponsmith info.

Quote:

Jellies need to use staves of perception to identify stuff. If this is not enough, perhaps we could make it so that selling wands/staves to the Magic Shop recharges them as well? Another alternative is to let jellies in on the berserker vanilla town hack which gives a couple of (expensive) black market commands for identify and *identify*. Thoughts?
Sounds good. Tangent: There's a cool trick with Jellies: if you play in No Pets mode, the initial Divide ability lets you set up a Black Ooze farm for experience and gold. I farmed up to level 12 in just a few minutes of play. This isn't a bad thing: I don't mind that some characters play this way. Trump casters are the same way --- their spells are mainly good for generating experience in the early game.

Djabanete March 4, 2013 19:40

Bump.

[1] Nitpick: The Burglary books need to be called Thieves' Guides, not Thieve's Guides.

[2] Question/Plea: My current character is having a hard time with stores not stocking certain necessities. I'm down to 3 scrolls of Word of Recall, and I'm afraid of recalling to depth 35 or so where the remaining 2 could easily be burned away; but the 4, 5 and 8 are not stocking any WoR. Similarly, I really need *ID* in order to figure out what gear to wear; but in the last several restocks (5 and 8), I haven't seen a single one. So unless I can figure out how to town scum, I won't be able to go into the dungeon or figure out what to wear ... but how to town scum? I don't know what the shop code is like anymore. Would it be so bad if certain items were always on hand in the stores?

Derakon March 4, 2013 20:15

Assuming that the town restock system hasn't changed from the old days, spending 1000 normal-speed turns outside of town should be enough to provoke a restock.

Djabanete March 5, 2013 02:12

Sadly, that doesn't work in PosChengband... I think the rationale had to do with de-emphasizing town scumming and emphasizing dungeon exploration. But PosChengband is balanced from the perspective of there being multiple towns to shop in, and in Vanilla town there's less availability. I guess I'll go explore with my 3 scrolls of Word of Recall and hope I can get some more in stock ;)

Arjen March 5, 2013 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djabanete (Post 77686)
[2] Question/Plea: My current character is having a hard time with stores not stocking certain necessities. I'm down to 3 scrolls of Word of Recall, and I'm afraid of recalling to depth 35 or so where the remaining 2 could easily be burned away; but the 4, 5 and 8 are not stocking any WoR. Similarly, I really need *ID* in order to figure out what gear to wear; but in the last several restocks (5 and 8), I haven't seen a single one. So unless I can figure out how to town scum, I won't be able to go into the dungeon or figure out what to wear ... but how to town scum? I don't know what the shop code is like anymore. Would it be so bad if certain items were always on hand in the stores?

Do you play Vanilla mode? If so, I don't know how to help you. ;) If not, go to the Maze, the guardian drops a -oRecall. And for *id*, you can use the *id* service in all towns except Outpost.

chris March 5, 2013 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djabanete (Post 77686)
[2] Question/Plea: My current character is having a hard time with stores not stocking certain necessities. I'm down to 3 scrolls of Word of Recall, and I'm afraid of recalling to depth 35 or so where the remaining 2 could easily be burned away; but the 4, 5 and 8 are not stocking any WoR. Similarly, I really need *ID* in order to figure out what gear to wear; but in the last several restocks (5 and 8), I haven't seen a single one. So unless I can figure out how to town scum, I won't be able to go into the dungeon or figure out what to wear ... but how to town scum? I don't know what the shop code is like anymore. Would it be so bad if certain items were always on hand in the stores?

I can make the Vanilla Town restock normally if that would help. But I think you will have a lot of trouble no matter, especially with stat and life drain. Both of these are cured with a town service normally, and happen every trip down to the dungeon at a certain stage in the game (I often recall to abort my current trip early once I get drained and can't imagine how you will get the hundreds of Restoring potions you will need though perhaps a non-melee character won't suffer so much).

Both Word of Recall and *Identify* can be found in stacks in the dungeon, though *Identify* won't show up until deeper (It is a rarity 2 object that begins to show up on L30). Rods of Recall can be found on L15 (rarely) and are more common by L30. And once you have one, you no longer need scrolls.

You'll have to keep me appraised as to whether Vanilla Town is playable or not. I never thought it was even in Hengband :)

Derakon March 5, 2013 16:01

What if Vanilla Town was augmented with the appropriate store services? I expect the main thing people playing Vanilla Town want is not having to deal with the surface world -- i.e. focusing on the dungeon, returning to town only when they need to retreat and reassess their situation.

chris March 5, 2013 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 77703)
What if Vanilla Town was augmented with the appropriate store services? I expect the main thing people playing Vanilla Town want is not having to deal with the surface world -- i.e. focusing on the dungeon, returning to town only when they need to retreat and reassess their situation.

There is the Lite Town option for that. This has no wilderness, but has every service imaginable crammed into Outpost. There are also numerous quest lines to choose from and only a single dungeon (Angband).

Djabanete March 5, 2013 20:44

Actually, Derakon's suggestion is what I want deep down inside, but only because I am OCD. I want the town services to be available, but I don't want to even have the option of doing quests. Playing in Lite Town mode and avoiding the quests isn't good enough, because they'd still be in my peripheral vision. (Besides, "Vanilla Town" has a great ring to it.) I want to play the most bare-bones, stripped-down Town possible, but even in that town I need to be able to *Identify* my artifacts; and so, acting on an inspiration that struck as I was reading the last few posts, I might just change the town edit files to suit my needs. (I remember replacing the Vanilla layout with the Zul layout with my one Entro winner a while back to enable mutation removal.)

I like the concept of Vanilla Town mode and I would certainly like the concept to reflect the reality of what Vanilla Town is or once was, but this one concession to playability must be made: the Heng-derived variants require much more extensive usage of *ID* than Vanilla did (at least back when I was playing Vanilla), and so *ID* must be more available. Heng variants have randarts alongside standard artifacts, and many more hidden powers on ego items. That *ID* is sold in the Alchemist shop is a big improvement, but if it doesn't appear in 7 or 8 restocks, what good does it do me?

On the other hand, this is the first time I've felt the problem so acutely. In all likelihood it's a fluke of probabilities. I think this can be safely regarded as a tempest in a teapot ;)

However I will say that if I had infinite jurisdiction over all *bands (which would surely be a wonderful power for someone who does none of the coding/developing work!), I'd change the stores to make select contents permanently and infinitely available without hesitation. The only question in my mind would be, which items are so conspicuous in their absence that they prevent the player from carrying out a satisfying game? Those items and only those items would be stocked, for ever and ever. (Exception made for the Black Market.) Because what's the big problem with that? Anything that's routinely stocked is already available in essentially arbitrary quantities if you have but the persistence to accumulate it. Again, in real life I'll do just fine with the way things are, messing with some edit files if need be.

Edit: @Arjen: Yes, it's Vanilla Town mode ^^

chris March 8, 2013 21:10

PosChengband 1.0.9 has been uploaded here. Nothing major has changed but there have been a few minor bug fixes and tweaks:

* Crimson now gives Shards resistance rather than Nether
* Olympians are now more common (since they are confined to Mt. Olympus)
* Weaponmaster Old Castle rewards were all reversed, so you got the high reward 80% of the time rather than 20%. Fixed.
* Subtle Casting and Peerless Sniper now never trigger monster retaliation.
* New demigod powers: Speed Reader and Fell Sorcery.
* Snotlings are now only -5 Chr (and 45% xp rather than 35%)
* Fear is less difficult early on.
* Artifact rings are now (slightly) more powerful
* Vanilla Town gets no random quests.
* Vanilla Town now restocks stores normally.

chris March 11, 2013 14:11

PosChengband 1.0.10 has been uploaded here. Only one change this time:

* Weapon Info now displays stats required for your next attack (if possible). This works for both normal melee characters and for monster races with innate attacks. It does not yet work for monks and martial arts.

Arjen March 11, 2013 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris (Post 77808)
PosChengband 1.0.10 has been uploaded here. Only one change this time:

* Weapon Info now displays stats required for your next attack (if possible). This works for both normal melee characters and for monster races with innate attacks. It does not yet work for monks and martial arts.

:eek:

/me starts to download it

Ani March 12, 2013 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris (Post 77808)
PosChengband 1.0.10 has been uploaded here. Only one change this time:

* Weapon Info now displays stats required for your next attack (if possible). This works for both normal melee characters and for monster races with innate attacks. It does not yet work for monks and martial arts.

Yay Bravo! This will be pretty handy for determining whether to increase ones str or dex. This is my first time playing a variant, is there any particular order for the dungeons Chris or is it meant to be sorta be a free for all?

Arjen March 12, 2013 14:31

Free for all!

You can choose whatever dungeon you want to enter. Just be warned that some dungeons start really deep, so check the level of the dungeon. A dungeon level 40 (Glass Castle) is the same a being on dungeon level 40, with the monsters native to that depth. You can easily kill yourself if you make that mistake.


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