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-   -   Looking for variant with strong endgame mages (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=6847)

Derakon August 21, 2014 18:39

Therem: could be, though I really thought I remembered seeing someone with ridiculous wands of Manathrust and Fireflash. After all, who wants to be constrained by their mana supply?

Amnekian August 21, 2014 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Mick (Post 94970)
Well, given enough experience(Somewhere in the range of 2 billion, I garner) and a few potions of speed, an alchemy character could conceivably make a ring of +200 attacks, if not more. When you get to that point, the quality of your weapon doesn't even matter, nor does your 2000+ SP. :p

What about the sorceror's fire power?

AnonymousHero August 21, 2014 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnekian (Post 94978)
What about the sorceror's fire power?

Sorcerors are very powerful, but their HP is reduced by 50%, so you're looking at ~700ish (IIRC) HP at level 50. They are also very restricted on some of the special levels. I think the latter is just papering over bad design of some the spells that make the special levels trivial, and eventually I'd also like to fix that.

(As a comparion an Alchemist can get up to 32K HP... one just has to be very careful to avoid wrap-around and go negative. Thinking about it, this is actually undefined behavior according to the C/C++ standards, so wrapping around might cause demons to come out of the player's nose. Hmm...)

Amnekian August 21, 2014 21:23

Talk about a glass cannon...

Estie August 21, 2014 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 94977)
Therem: could be, though I really thought I remembered seeing someone with ridiculous wands of Manathrust and Fireflash. After all, who wants to be constrained by their mana supply?

Constrained ? With 32k mana, its virtually impossible to go oom ;)

Estie August 21, 2014 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnekian (Post 94980)
Talk about a glass cannon...

It is indeed a glass cannon, and play revolves around killing things out of LoS.
Nevertheless its the most powerful class, beating alchemists, posessors, thaumaturgs and summoners with elegance; easiest winner by far.

If glasscannon is not your thing, alchmist mages take longer to get going (very grindy) but the result is an all but immortal mage who 1-shots everything.

Take a look at dumps for ideas.

Derakon August 21, 2014 21:56

Thaumaturgists can be hilariously overpowered; it really depends on if they get any good Area spells and a Blast - Wall spell. "Area" means "fire a large number of ball spells at random tiles near the player"; Blast - Wall means "fill every open tile within a radius of the player with a granite wall". So you spot your target, cast Blast - Wall, then dig your way towards him. Let him into LOS, do another Blast - Wall, and he's embedded in the wall with you in the only open tile. Then you spam Area spells and hit him with upwards of fifty ball spells.

If you're lucky, you'll get Area - Inertia, Area - Sound, or Area - Force, which will slow, stun, or stun+knockback the target, respectively. The knockback doesn't actually move them because they're surrounded by walls, but it piles on even more damage. Even with those, though, there's a ton of elements that basically no monsters resist like disenchantment, holy fire, time, etc., and each ball can deal, if I recall correctly, up to 50d10 damage. I killed Morgoth in 3 castings, once.

Not to say that sorcerors can't be hilariously overpowered too, but they require a lot more work to get up to the "can one-shot practically everything" range, and they're more fragile. And a Thaumaturge will easily have the spare skillpoints needed to invest in whatever normal magical realms they want.

Amnekian August 21, 2014 22:00

Care to explain why you say "if you are lucky you will get x spells"?

Therem Harth August 21, 2014 22:27

Thaumaturgists have been severely nerfed in the AH version. Area spells are decorative now. OTOH ball spells are usable now instead of being limited to 100d1 damage maximum.

Personally I was rather fond of the old, broken Area spells though. Leveling up as a Thaumaturgist was cool; you never knew if the next batch of spells would be great or sucky...

As for the wand-alchemist, if that's possible I'll have to try it. :P

Edit: @Amnekian, Thaumaturgist spells are randomized.

Estie August 21, 2014 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 94985)
Not to say that sorcerors can't be hilariously overpowered too, but they require a lot more work to get up to the "can one-shot practically everything" range, and they're more fragile. And a Thaumaturge will easily have the spare skillpoints needed to invest in whatever normal magical realms they want.

The forte of the sorceror isnt big damage; while they are exceptionally good early and mid game, they fall off in lategame compared to various other silly combos. The reason they are so good is their versatility. Given any problem, the sorceror probably has at least 3 different ways to solve it.

While other classes can get utility spells as well, the sorceror has _everything_ and boosted by sorcery, so detect traps covers half a level, recall can lift a plate mail, essence of speed gives...i forget, like +40 speed or so (well beyond the point of usefullness), etc etc, its pure luxury.


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