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-   -   Sil: What are your least liked features of Sil? (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=6036)

bron April 26, 2013 06:52

1) Sil, by design, has elements with high variance. I find it to be just a little *too* random in the early going. Too many characters die in those first couple hundred feet, no matter what you do.

2) It is not possible to forge certain artefacts that you can find, no matter how good you are. You cannot make your own Ringil clone, because the game won't let you put that much evasion on a sword. You can't make a Crown of Feanor because you can't put Smithing on a crown. And so on. I understand the usual dodge in these situations is to say "the skills needed to do that were lost in a bygone age", but isn't Sil supposed to be set *in* that bygone age of skill?

3) Archery is too good.

4) The Naugrim deserve a (little) buff.

5) The game encourages "restart scumming". e.g. you want to run a smithing character, so you just play the first couple of levels over and over until eventually you find those Smithing gauntlets and another forge at 200 feet.

6) No one except the one Edain house has Melee affinity.

7) Forging can be horribly frustrating since you have to commit to a forging strategy early on, yet can get hosed if you don't find enough forges, something that is completely outside of your control.

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Now, that said, I will mention my personal suggestions about what might be done about these, but I wanted to make a clear separation between the statement of things I don't particularly like, and my own probably stupid ideas about dealing with (some of) these:

The character should have more starting equipment. Some leather armor and a pair of boots would go a long way to boosting early survivability. It's not like you weren't going to find some eventually anyway.

Characters should not be able to have both a bow and a melee weapon ready. The game already recognizes you can't have both a 2-handed weapon and a (1-handed) shield, so why can you have both a 2-handed weapon and a (2-handed) bow? Being forced to swap between them (as in Moria) would cut down on the effectiveness of bows, without needing to change any of the archery mechanics.

As I've said elsewhere about the Naugrim: Belegost should add Melee affinity, Nogrod should add Will affinity.

I would like to see a Smithing ability that lets you squeeze one extra use out of a forge. One more use would not let you forge 2 artifacts at a single forge, but would ensure that you could always forge one, even if it was nominally a 2-use forge. This would help mitigate problems for unlucky smithers, at the cost of taking the ability. You should not be allowed to put such a skill onto an artifact.

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Lastly, along the lines of my complaint about the lack of melee affinity characters, I think it would be fun to be able to do a *complete* design-your-own character. E.g. you get 6 starting stat points (no more than 3 points in any one stat), and your choice of 2 affinities and one proficiency. With the option to get a 7th stat for the cost of a negative stat point, and/or a third affinity at the cost of a skill penalty (like the Naugrim do). I imagine Half-Trolls with 3 Str, 1 Dex, 3 Con, -1 Gra. Or maybe you should only start with 4 stat points and 1 affinity+proficiency for a full design-your-own. But it sounds like fun.

andrey April 26, 2013 13:29

1 Attachment(s)
As I said in the previous post, I don't really like the fact that the Dwarves are so lousy. Please make them a bit stronger to play.

Swords are much more versatile than axes - you have a span from short sword to great sword, which allows you changing your tactics according to the monster you meet. I use to switch weapons a lot in the game. Axes are only on one part of the range. Also, there are defender swords, which combined with parry give you +4 to evasion, which is a huge buff.

Also, most of the artifact weapons are swords, so you're most likely to be forced to play with a sword anyway by the late game, unless you artifice.

Archery is so useful that I tend to use it with Naugrim anyway, but with the (-2) penalty - (compared to elves).

Elves start with lambas, Dwarves have dark bread. That means that a Dwarf smith cannot smith out a helm of radiance because he can't restore that grace point.

Elves have +2 more points in (str,dex,con,gra) which is a lot more.

To be fair, I am kind of "cheating" right now to play dwarves. I've edited the files in the "edit" folder and gave them a buff in the (s,d,c,g) department. I am attaching my "fair races" files , in case someone else have the same feelings about dwarves. (These files are to be unpacked in the "edit" folder). I hope that the author is not offended by this act of editing.

debo April 26, 2013 13:42

I don't actually understand all the angst with dwarves. They're really not that much harder than the Sindar IMO, just different, and there's no general outcry to make the Sindar stronger :)

The only thing I'd maybe like to see with them is a re-jigger of stat / proficiency combos, since Belegost feels inferior to Nogrod in some critical ways that aren't really made up for by the Will proficiency.

I imagine that something as simple as giving both dwarf houses +1 Dex would go a long way to smoothing out the early game for them, but as HM said -- if you're willing to do unthematic things like wield a longsword for the first few hundred feet, you can increase your odds a bit.

But I don't think this thread was supposed to be a conversation thread, so I'ma gonna shush now :)

Philip April 26, 2013 14:02

If you don't like dwarves, stop playing them. If they feel weak, then play them as challenge games. I also don't like dwarves, because they are contrary to my playstyle, so I don't play them. Dwarves were considerably less powerful than Noldor (their only achievement being to severely wound glaurung, while the Noldor killed a whole load of balrogs, did damage to Morgoth et al. One of them barehand killed a werewolf.

HallucinationMushroom April 26, 2013 14:43

Hmm, I guess if I had to point out something, it's confusing to me that rfear isn't on the will tree in some form or fashion, or perhaps tacking on rfear to a song like slaying or something. It just seems natural, since you can control your hunger, break curses and resist confu/hallu on the will tree, but not fear. Fear is something I worry about late game, so I try to have rage and liquor available as even when I have decent will score and maybe even rfear on an item, I still get afraid sometimes.

I've no beef with Dwarves, I would tally them second easiest race to win with... but you stealthy/archer types probably peg Sindar easier. They are supposed to be challenge races, after all.

debo April 26, 2013 14:50

Whoa, i thought Clarity gave rFear. I never take it, though, so I guess I never found out :) I learned something today!

Psi April 26, 2013 15:53

Definitely agree with HM on rFear - should be something in Will tree to cover it. I'm always having to save a slot for Defiance or the like when it is perhaps the most natural thing you'd expect to find under Will.

bron April 26, 2013 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by HallucinationMushroom (Post 79419)
it's confusing to me that rfear isn't on the will tree in some form

*That* was the other thing! I knew I was forgetting something. I agree completely. I complained about this point months ago, admittedly in a post that did a lot of whining and complaining about random stuff (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=5650).

Antoine April 26, 2013 23:16

Nothing unthematic about using a sword - Thorin did

debo April 27, 2013 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antoine (Post 79455)
Nothing unthematic about using a sword - Thorin did

Only counts if first age :D

nyahhhhhh


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