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-   -   Bugs and issues in 4.1.2 (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=8772)

PowerWyrm December 22, 2017 11:34

Bugs and issues in 4.1.2
 
New thread for any problem encountered with the new release.

Here's my results of testing the messages with known and unknown (flavored) items:

- wands: "it can be aimed" (unknown), "when aimed..." (known)
- offensive rods: "it can be aimed" (unknown), "when aimed..." (known)
- support rods: "it can be activated" (unknown), "when activated..." (known)
- activatable offensive item (for ex. a ring of ice): nothing (unknown), "when aimed..." (known)
- activatable offensive artifact (for ex. Narthanc): "when activated..."
- potion of dragon breath: "it can be aimed" (unknown), "when aimed..." (known)

So here we have the following problems:
- looking at unknown rods leaks info about them (aimed vs activated)
- missing info on unknown activatable items
- different info for known activatable normal items vs artifacts (aimed vs activated again)
- looking at unknown potions of dragon breath leaks info about them
- potions of dragon breath are not "aimed" anyway
- looking at unknown activatable artifacts leaks info about them

Fixes:
- all unknown rods should say "it can be aimed" (since we ask for a direction anyway)
- all unknown activatable items should say "it can be activated" (as it is obvious by pressing 'A' that they can)
- known activatable artifacts should say "when aimed..." (like everything else that can be aimed)
- unknown potions of dragon breath should say "it can be quaffed" (like every other potion)
- known potions of dragon breath should say "when quaffed..." (since obviously you drink the potion, then fire or ice erupts from your throat...)
- unknown activatable artifacts should say "it can be activated" until you walk on them and learn their name ('a dagger' -> 'Narthanc' or 'a bronze amulet' -> 'Carlammas')

Derakon December 22, 2017 17:52

Artifacts that activate for unaimed effects, like light or heal or teleport or whatever, should not be "aimed", they should be "activated". Only artifacts that, when activated, prompt the user for a direction or target should be "aimed".

Grotug December 23, 2017 23:05

75 turns my left foot! 5 turns, maybe.

You're paralyzed! You are faint from hunger.
You feel very good, you have 3 !CLW. You're paralyzed! You are faint from hunger.

Hey, wait a minute. I just quaffed a potion of CLW, and it says it feeds me for 75 turns, why am I immediately paralyzed again?

Wormtongue just stole all my coins (3400) and he was fleeing in fear and I had nothing to finish him off with given I only have melee attack. Now he is almost at full health, I'm out of food and fainting and my !CLWs are useless in staving off starvation. :(

Nick December 24, 2017 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grotug (Post 127111)
75 turns my left foot! 5 turns, maybe.

You're paralyzed! You are faint from hunger.
You feel very good, you have 3 !CLW. You're paralyzed! You are faint from hunger.

Hey, wait a minute. I just quaffed a potion of CLW, and it says it feeds me for 75 turns, why am I immediately paralyzed again?

Once you're at fainting status (less than 250 turns of nourishment before you die, shows Faint at the bottom of screen) you have a random chance of fainting. So I imagine your !CLW didn't take you above the 250-turn limit, and you got a bad roll on the fainting. The solution is not to get to fainting status :)

luneya December 24, 2017 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grotug (Post 127111)
75 turns my left foot! 5 turns, maybe.

You're paralyzed! You are faint from hunger.
You feel very good, you have 3 !CLW. You're paralyzed! You are faint from hunger.

Hey, wait a minute. I just quaffed a potion of CLW, and it says it feeds me for 75 turns, why am I immediately paralyzed again?

Wormtongue just stole all my coins (3400) and he was fleeing in fear and I had nothing to finish him off with given I only have melee attack. Now he is almost at full health, I'm out of food and fainting and my !CLWs are useless in staving off starvation. :(

If you haven't seen scrolls of satisfy hunger and have unid'd scrolls, try reading them; maybe you'll get lucky. Also try unid'd potions, which might turn out to be juice or additional curing. If those don't help and you have recall, use it immediately, quaffing your CLW while waiting. Then kill some townsfolk for their single-digit gold drops, and buy food in the general store. Once you're no longer hungry, go farm DL 1 for replacement curing potions or cash to buy same, as you don't want to return to depths with anything dangerous while out of healing.

If you don't have recall, you're probably dead. And as Nick said, there's no bug here, just pilot error. Never let a character get below hunger level "weak." If you're not carrying food and can't cast satisfy hunger, then start looking for food on the dungeon floor as soon as you hit "hungry," and if you hit "weak," recall immediately to go buy it.

A Magical Lamp December 24, 2017 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grotug (Post 127111)
Wormtongue just stole all my coins (3400) and he was fleeing in fear and I had nothing to finish him off with given I only have melee attack. Now he is almost at full health, I'm out of food and fainting and my !CLWs are useless in staving off starvation. :(

Wormtongue can cast heal, he'll drop all your coins when he dies though so just treat him as a temporary bank.

PowerWyrm December 24, 2017 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by luneya (Post 127114)
Also try unid'd potions, which might turn out to be juice or additional curing.

I wouldn't recommend that when starving, as there's a better chance to get Salt Water than anything nourishing... worsening the problem.

luneya December 25, 2017 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm (Post 127116)
I wouldn't recommend that when starving, as there's a better chance to get Salt Water than anything nourishing... worsening the problem.

It depends on what you know. If there's a chance of the unknown being CSW or CCW, I'd take it; those are much more common than salt water. If you've already seen those two, then it's not worth the risk of quaffing the unknown unless you've also identified the salt water previously. (Perhaps that's how you got into the starvation mess in the first place.)

Ingwe Ingweron December 25, 2017 06:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by luneya (Post 127127)
It depends on what you know. If there's a chance of the unknown being CSW or CCW, I'd take it; those are much more common than salt water. If you've already seen those two, then it's not worth the risk of quaffing the unknown unless you've also identified the salt water previously. (Perhaps that's how you got into the starvation mess in the first place.)

Of course, that unknown potion could also be !poison, but, yeah, if you're moments from @ death, with no time to recall or get up stairs, then quaff away and hope for the best.

Tibarius December 26, 2017 23:48

artefacts lost on level
 
Shouldn't it be that way that if you enter a level and have the option to loose artifacts if you leave the level ON, that you notice the artefact with entering the level ? I lost about 20 artefacts without even noticing ... *wonder*

edit: I am rather sure now that i lost artifacts without noticing them at entering levels ... i watched for the pink $ sign and i missed some without the $ showing up.

Ingwe Ingweron December 31, 2017 08:11

There is something slightly off in the damage calculations shown for weapons. The damage per blow amounts shown can change depending on whether viewed while @ has equipped the weapon, or whether viewed while in @'s pack. It used to be that the damage information shown was identical whether equipped or in pack, because any stat modifications, etc., from the weapon were taken into account as if equipped. Somehow, this nuance got lost in some of the coding changes for 4.1.2.

Sky January 1, 2018 19:21

traps do not give XP until @ is down to DL5. however, if you reach DL5 AND THEN go back, all traps will give XP, even on DL1.

Gwarl January 2, 2018 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron (Post 127205)
There is something slightly off in the damage calculations shown for weapons. The damage per blow amounts shown can change depending on whether viewed while @ has equipped the weapon, or whether viewed while in @'s pack. It used to be that the damage information shown was identical whether equipped or in pack, because any stat modifications, etc., from the weapon were taken into account as if equipped. Somehow, this nuance got lost in some of the coding changes for 4.1.2.

What if the weapon itself provides stat bonuses? Or is examined while wielding another weapon with stat bonuses?

PowerWyrm January 2, 2018 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwarl (Post 127231)
What if the weapon itself provides stat bonuses? Or is examined while wielding another weapon with stat bonuses?

The code "wields" the weapon to display its stats, so it shouldn't matter. Is the weapon fully identified?

Ingwe Ingweron January 4, 2018 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm (Post 127233)
The code "wields" the weapon to display its stats, so it shouldn't matter. Is the weapon fully identified?

Yes, fully identified. I swear it's a bug, but maybe I'm wrong. However, the blow/damage information is different depending on wielding versus in the pack. It didn't used to be this way. I'm wondering if the bug was introduced in the December 9, 2017 commit or earlier?

Derakon January 4, 2018 17:50

At level 50 with decent CON you may be regenerating more damage than it deals, leading to apparently no damage taken. Fire vortices don't have much health, thus weak breath weapons.

This is similar to how high-level mages can cast Magic Missile "for free" because they recover more than 1SP per turn.

Thraalbee January 4, 2018 17:52

Yea, deleted my post after some more testing.

Nick January 5, 2018 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky (Post 127220)
traps do not give XP until @ is down to DL5. however, if you reach DL5 AND THEN go back, all traps will give XP, even on DL1.

I can't reproduce this, and I can't see anything in the code that would make it happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron (Post 127263)
Yes, fully identified. I swear it's a bug, but maybe I'm wrong. However, the blow/damage information is different depending on wielding versus in the pack. It didn't used to be this way. I'm wondering if the bug was introduced in the December 9, 2017 commit or earlier?

This whole piece of code has been causing issues for some time - the first problem was that it behaved badly when player stats were drained, and subsequent "fixes" have kept introducing new problems. I will file this as a bug.

Ingwe Ingweron January 7, 2018 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 127286)
I can't reproduce this, and I can't see anything in the code that would make it happen.



This whole piece of code has been causing issues for some time - the first problem was that it behaved badly when player stats were drained, and subsequent "fixes" have kept introducing new problems. I will file this as a bug.

An easy test: Use wizard to generate a @ with Sting and with a regular extra attacks weapon. Wield one and compare the other in the pack. The in-pack weapon damage shown is erroneously benefiting from stat improvements of the wielded weapon. Or even comparing on the ground before picking up the weapon. This is a real pain in the butt. To accurately determine which weapon to wield, one must equip each weapon, as the in-pack or on-ground information is wrong.

Nick January 7, 2018 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron (Post 127318)
An easy test: Use wizard to generate a @ with Sting and with a regular extra attacks weapon. Wield one and compare the other in the pack. The in-pack weapon damage shown is erroneously benefiting from stat improvements of the wielded weapon. Or even comparing on the ground before picking up the weapon. This is a real pain in the butt. To accurately determine which weapon to wield, one must equip each weapon, as the in-pack or on-ground information is wrong.

It was Sky's trap thing that I couldn't reproduce. The only reason I haven't reproduced the weapon description thing is that I haven't tried yet :)

PowerWyrm January 8, 2018 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron (Post 127318)
An easy test: Use wizard to generate a @ with Sting and with a regular extra attacks weapon. Wield one and compare the other in the pack. The in-pack weapon damage shown is erroneously benefiting from stat improvements of the wielded weapon. Or even comparing on the ground before picking up the weapon. This is a real pain in the butt. To accurately determine which weapon to wield, one must equip each weapon, as the in-pack or on-ground information is wrong.

The problem here is that the wizard generator is bugged and you cannot trust it for anything it creates. I think it comes from the fact that the generator doesn't assign the known part correctly. Are you sure the same happens if you actually find Sting and an EA weapon?

Ingwe Ingweron January 8, 2018 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm (Post 127329)
The problem here is that the wizard generator is bugged and you cannot trust it for anything it creates. I think it comes from the fact that the generator doesn't assign the known part correctly. Are you sure the same happens if you actually find Sting and an EA weapon?

I actually did find them, was just suggesting the Wizard mode so Nick didn't have to play for a couple hours just to test. It happens with any weapon that adjusts relevant combat associated stats, so it still shouldn't be hard to confirm. Damage per blow information was clearly working properly before some of the recent changes to this mechanic, but is now clearly not. Weapon comparison is now quite tedious. In-pack and on-ground information cannot be trusted.

Tibarius January 10, 2018 16:33

find doors
 
Plaiyng 4.1.2, there was a naga room. I cast detect doors and it says there are no doors. I was already wondering how the naga can come out then ... but obviously there was one side with a door which was not detected. So is the detection not 100 % anymore or anyone an idea what happened there?

Nick January 10, 2018 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tibarius (Post 127383)
Plaiyng 4.1.2, there was a naga room. I cast detect doors and it says there are no doors. I was already wondering how the naga can come out then ... but obviously there was one side with a door which was not detected. So is the detection not 100 % anymore or anyone an idea what happened there?

Door detection now only detects secret doors.

luneya January 11, 2018 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 127391)
Door detection now only detects secret doors.

Which, although not strictly a bug, seems to be stupid. Why shouldn't door detection reveal all doors? There doesn't seem to be any thematic reason why this should be so, and the nerf doesn't make the gameplay significantly more challenging (except maybe in situations like the OP's, where you want to know which side of a pit has the door for LOS reasons).

Tibarius January 11, 2018 18:12

me fool
 
Me fool ... i thought detect doors, detect doors!

Either rename spell to detect secret doors or please detect all doors, thanks!

Ingwe Ingweron January 13, 2018 05:43

Not necessarily a bug, as it has existed for a very long time, so might be by design -- but, can someone please explain to me why, when @ has full resistances & protections, The Witch King of Angmar can command @ to "go away" even though every other monster with this ability, including Sauron, cannot successfully do so?

Nick January 13, 2018 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron (Post 127450)
Not necessarily a bug, as it has existed for a very long time, so might be by design -- but, can someone please explain to me why, when @ has full resistances & protections, The Witch King of Angmar can command @ to "go away" even though every other monster with this ability, including Sauron, cannot successfully do so?

The Witch-King has the teleport away spell, which is unresistable; only nine monsters have it, including notably Nexus Quylthulgs. Sauron does not have it; he has the teleport level spell, which RNexus prevents against.

Ingwe Ingweron January 13, 2018 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 127451)
The Witch-King has the teleport away spell, which is unresistable; only nine monsters have it, including notably Nexus Quylthulgs. Sauron does not have it; he has the teleport level spell, which RNexus prevents against.

Ah, I see. Is there also no saving throw? It feels like none of the other eight succeed at TELE_AWAY once @ is sufficiently high-level and has resistances and protections, but I may be imagining this.

Nick January 13, 2018 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron (Post 127453)
Ah, I see. Is there also no saving throw? It feels like none of the other eight succeed at TELE_AWAY once @ is sufficiently high-level and has resistances and protections, but I may be imagining this.

No, no saving throw. You're probably killing them too fast :)

Sky January 13, 2018 14:55

where are my stairs ?
https://i.imgur.com/PMpweRF.png

PowerWyrm January 13, 2018 15:14

Obviously in an area you didnt explore... Bottom right area at the end of the small corridor seems to be the most likely place.

Sky January 13, 2018 15:28

i see that the implications of my question have eluded you.

Derakon January 13, 2018 15:54

They're eluding me as well, so why don't you explicate a bit?

Sky January 13, 2018 17:05

recently stairs placement has changed, instead of being randomly distributed, they are mostly placed in small side corridors or in some select rooms. however, they can now be all bunched up in the same spot, 5-6 down stairs all in one 5x5 room, with nothing else in the rest of the dungeon. if you want to get out of the level, but cannot get past that one 1-shot mob who is sitting between you and ALL THE STAIRS IN THE LEVEL, that can be a problem.

Tibarius January 13, 2018 19:21

stairs location
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky (Post 127469)
recently stairs placement has changed, instead of being randomly distributed, they are mostly placed in small side corridors or in some select rooms. however, they can now be all bunched up in the same spot, 5-6 down stairs all in one 5x5 room, with nothing else in the rest of the dungeon. if you want to get out of the level, but cannot get past that one 1-shot mob who is sitting between you and ALL THE STAIRS IN THE LEVEL, that can be a problem.

Yes i noticed it too that sometimes stairs are not realy distributed over the level. I hadn't such a situation yet you describe.

Sky January 13, 2018 19:32

it doesnt have to be that one situation, and yet i still feel stairs should be more evenly spread out. i'm ok with a "stairs room" that has 2+ stairs in it arranged in a cool way, but that should count as 1 stair, not multiple.

Nick January 13, 2018 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky (Post 127462)
where are my stairs ?

They're not your stairs, they're Morgoth's :)

Ingwe Ingweron January 15, 2018 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 127321)
The only reason I haven't reproduced the weapon description thing is that I haven't tried yet :)

Any ETA on this bug-fix? It's such a pain in the butt having to pick up weapons from the floor, wield them, remember the blow/damage amounts, re-wield principal weapon, then compare. It was so much better when Inspecting the weapon on the ground or in the pack gave accurate information.

PowerWyrm January 15, 2018 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron (Post 127505)
Any ETA on this bug-fix? It's such a pain in the butt having to pick up weapons from the floor, wield them, remember the blow/damage amounts, re-wield principal weapon, then compare. It was so much better when Inspecting the weapon on the ground or in the pack gave accurate information.

Looking at the code, the only difference is that now it uses calc_bonuses() instead of doing some hack for off weapon extra blows.

Old code:

Code:

extra_blows = 0;
-
-        /* Start with blows from the weapon being examined */
-        extra_blows += obj->known->modifiers[OBJ_MOD_BLOWS];
-
-        /* Then we need to look for extra blows on other items, as
-        * state does not track these */
-        for (i = 0; i < player->body.count; i++) {
-                struct object *helper = slot_object(player, i);
-
-                if ((i == slot_by_name(player, "weapon")) || !helper)
-                        continue;
-
-                extra_blows += helper->known->modifiers[OBJ_MOD_BLOWS];
-        }

The problem I think is that calc_bonuses() doesn't handle modifiers properly:

Code:

/* Apply modifiers */
                        state->stat_add[STAT_STR] += obj->modifiers[OBJ_MOD_STR]
* p->obj_k->modifiers[OBJ_MOD_STR];
...
extra_blows += obj->modifiers[OBJ_MOD_BLOWS]
* p->obj_k->modifiers[OBJ_MOD_BLOWS];

I think the code should use the known part here, not rune knowledge. In PWMAngband, I have:

Code:

s32b modifiers[OBJ_MOD_MAX];

for (j = 0; j < OBJ_MOD_MAX; j++) {
modifiers[j] = obj->modifiers[j];
if (known_only && !object_is_known(p, obj) && !object_modifier_is_known(obj, j, aware)) modifiers[j] = 0;
}
...
extra_blows += modifiers[OBJ_MOD_BLOWS];


PowerWyrm January 15, 2018 11:28

From dungeon_profile.txt:

# Very rare rooms (rarity = 2)
room:monster pit:0:11:33:5:1:2:8
room:monster nest:0:11:33:5:1:2:16
room:Medium vault:0:22:33:30:0:2:38
room:Lesser vault:0:22:33:20:0:2:55

Doesn't matter if the cutoff of the last entry isn't 100?

Ingwe Ingweron January 15, 2018 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm (Post 127508)
Looking at the code, the only difference is that now it uses calc_bonuses() instead of doing some hack for off weapon extra blows....

I completely defer to you and Nick about the code. All I know is that, it seems to me, damage shown for a weapon in the pack or on the floor should be the same as if wielded (and whatever weapon actually in hand were not wielded).

PowerWyrm January 15, 2018 16:40

Stair placement inside rooms of chambers:

http://angband.oook.cz/screen-show.php?id=4442

This is as horrible as stairing inside a Hellpit or similar GV...

PowerWyrm January 15, 2018 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm (Post 127516)
Stair placement inside rooms of chambers:

http://angband.oook.cz/screen-show.php?id=4442

This is as horrible as stairing inside a Hellpit or similar GV...

Ok found the reason why... the code never creates outer walls, so the rooms are pierced by corridors instead of being connected from the outside. The faulty code:

Code:

                        if (square_iswall_inner(c, y, x)) {
                                for (d = 0; d < 9; d++) {
                                        /* Extract adjacent location */
                                        int yy = y + ddy_ddd[d];
                                        int xx = x + ddx_ddd[d];

                                        /* Look for dungeon granite */
                                        if ((c->squares[yy][xx].feat == FEAT_GRANITE) &&
                                                (!square_iswall_inner(c, y, x)) &&
                                                (!square_iswall_outer(c, y, x)) &&
                                                (!square_iswall_solid(c, y, x)))
                                        {
                                                /* Turn me into outer wall. */
                                                set_marked_granite(c, y, x, SQUARE_WALL_OUTER);

                                                /* Done; */
                                                break;
                                        }
                                }
}

/me thinks it should be "yy" and "xx" there...

PowerWyrm January 15, 2018 17:50

There are still issues with room of chambers after fixing the above... When you highlight inner and outer walls, there are normal isolated walls remaining inside the layout... and some isolated floor tiles around them (with outer walls around those floors and walls). This feels wrong.

Nick January 15, 2018 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron (Post 127505)
Any ETA on this bug-fix? It's such a pain in the butt having to pick up weapons from the floor, wield them, remember the blow/damage amounts, re-wield principal weapon, then compare. It was so much better when Inspecting the weapon on the ground or in the pack gave accurate information.

I will try to get back to it before too long. Should be easy now PowerWyrm has done all the work for me :)

Ingwe Ingweron January 15, 2018 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 127523)
I will try to get back to it before too long. Should be easy now PowerWyrm has done all the work for me :)

My new nicknames for the two of you - Code Master and Code Guru. :D

PowerWyrm January 16, 2018 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm (Post 127518)
There are still issues with room of chambers after fixing the above... When you highlight inner and outer walls, there are normal isolated walls remaining inside the layout... and some isolated floor tiles around them (with outer walls around those floors and walls). This feels wrong.

Hmm in fact it can happen easily if there's enough space between the rooms:

Code:

  #########
  #.......#
  #.......#
###+#####+###
#...#  #...#
#...#  #...#
#...#  #...#
##+##########
 #.........#
 #.........#
 ###########

The middle here is turned into outer walls:

Code:

#########
  #.......#
  #.......#
###+%%%%%+###
#...%  %...#
#...%  %...#
#...%  %...#
##+#%%%%%####
 #.........#
 #.........#
 ###########

Which later on is a perfect place to pierce with a tunnel...

Code:

  #########
  #.......#
  #.......#
###+#####+###
#...#####...#
#...........#
#...#####...#
##+##########
 #.........#
 #.........#
 ###########

This generates unprotected floor tiles where stairs can be placed.

Grotug January 16, 2018 15:21

Un ID'd scrolls in vaults are a nightmare
 
EDIT: I love all the work being done on Angband. I enjoy the game now more than the 3.4.1 days when I last played it too much. I love all the new room types; and I really like the explosion trap, although it rarely happens; it's one of the few traps that really feels like something really happened. I love most things that are being done to the game, so I apologize if the following rant is a fair bit whining. :D

The tedium of having to wait till I am all done sifting through and taking the good loot in a vault before reading any unknown scrolls or trying unknown staves is really tedious, especially when there are tons of object destroying creatures in the vault.

"Oh, **** it, I'll just read the stupid scroll, I've already read ?*destruction* and ?DD so what are the chances it's something that will make me loose any loot?"

~You sink through the floor.~

Of course, of course, of course, of course, of course, it's *always* something like this! Bye bye helm of speed <+8> and WIS <+2>, bye bye my main weapon, because I accidentally dropped it picking up another one. Bye Bye gloves of Lightning immunity. And bye bye that whole other vault I haven't even gotten to yet.

Now you can say, "there'll be more vaults farther down", but this was one of those *really* annoying gallery shooting vaults, and I entered it with around 450HP on DL75, so it's no small miracle I survived it.

Anyway, this happens *all the time*. For some reason, vaults love to have for the first time, *destructions, Telelevel, deep descent, and any other effects I can't think of that cause one to lose the loot in the vault. I suppose I could exercise self-control over reading the scrolls, and always do ever since this kinda thing started happening regularly, but in this particular instance right before I decided to read ?telelevel, a black dragon melted a scroll of Acquirement, so you know, better read it before it gets melted and I decided odds are still small it's something I haven't thought of (I thought I had already read Telelevel, but I guess I confused it with another game).

I like the idea of being forced to try potions/scrolls/staves etc in theory, but in practice it has been quite annoying, because it often means I don't get to read ?Banishment, ?MBanishment in vaults before they get destroyed because I'm so worried about reading ?Telelevel or ?*Destruction from so much experience of reading those in vaults. Or, if they survive my exploration of the vault, there are multiple unknown scrolls and I always read ?Telelevel first! It's just amazing to me.

There's also a fair bit of logic gaps in the current system: you read ?Monster Confusion and you always ID it, even if no monsters are nearby, but you use a staff of Confusion and it only IDs if monsters are nearby. (??)

What's wrong with the old system where you could ID these things without risking leaving important things behind so you can pick up an unID'd wand and then run around looking for a monster to hopefully TO with the unknown wand? Now that ID staves are gone and ID scrolls are quite rare, what's the harm in allowing people to use precious scrolls of ID on other scrolls, potions, staves and wands?

Oh, and then there was the game recently where relatively deep (DL30s or so I believe) I tried an unID'd wand on a somewhat dangerous monster because by that depth I was thinking it will be something that does damage, but instead it hasted the monster, which ended up causing me to die (I usually find haste monster between DL3 and DL8).

FWIW (and probably not much) this is not the first rant I wrote on this topic. The first one I wrote I didn't post, deciding it was far too loaded with vitriol and so I exercised some self control and decided I'll wait a little longer to see if this sort of thing continues to happen and continues to annoy me before posting about it. Well, it has continues to happen and continues to annoy me.

Ingwe Ingweron January 17, 2018 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grotug (Post 127531)
The tedium of having to wait till I am all done sifting through and taking the good loot in a vault before reading any unknown scrolls or trying unknown staves is really tedious, especially when there are tons of object destroying creatures in the vault.

My feeling is to say, "tough". You roll the dice, you take your chances.

I don't read un-id scrolls off-stairs unless (1) @ has found ?Aggravate, ?Teleportation, ?Teleport Level, ?Destruction, ?Summon Monster; ?Summon Undead already; (2) It's an emergency and @ is going to die anyway, so maybe I'll get lucky; or (3) I feel @ is powerful enough and I think I can deal with any potential consequences.

Estie January 17, 2018 20:00

the Wooden Torch of Ginoron <+6, +3>
------------------------------------
+6 dexterity.
+3 searching skill.
Provides resistance to light.
Cannot be harmed by fire.
Radius 1 light. Cannot be refueled.


Min Level 22, Max Level 49, Generation chance 8, Power 82, 2.2 lbs
Random light of power 82.

This is the best lightsource of this randart set, and has a maximum level of 49 (!).

Nick, I get that you really had to remove the Palantir from the randart set, proceed to nerf even the remaining lights and leave only crumbly torches, but can I please at least be allowed to find those remaining crumbs ?

Grelko January 18, 2018 05:35

Trap door bug
 
After all these years, I finally became a member. I've been playing this since the mid 90s. I still use @ as my character. :)

I think I found a bug with trap doors.

Angband 4.1.2
Windows Xp 32bit
Half-elf Ranger lv 13

Down on lvl 5, I found a trap door. I used the spell "disable traps, destroy doors"

The trap disappears and it says that it was disabled. I didn't move, but instead used R+& to rest as needed to gain mana, and the trap came back. I tried this a couple times and the same thing happens.

If I use the spell and disable the trap, it's gone like it should be and I can walk through the space, but if I rest, it comes back. This might happen with other traps but I haven't checked yet.

I thought it might have been a glitch on the screen, so I walked towards it, and fell down a level, since the trap was still there.

Is anyone able to reproduce this?

PowerWyrm January 18, 2018 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grelko (Post 127567)
After all these years, I finally became a member. I've been playing this since the mid 90s. I still use @ as my character. :)

I think I found a bug with trap doors.

Angband 4.1.2
Windows Xp 32bit
Half-elf Ranger lv 13

Down on lvl 5, I found a trap door. I used the spell "disable traps, destroy doors"

The trap disappears and it says that it was disabled. I didn't move, but instead used R+& to rest as needed to gain mana, and the trap came back. I tried this a couple times and the same thing happens.

If I use the spell and disable the trap, it's gone like it should be and I can walk through the space, but if I rest, it comes back. This might happen with other traps but I haven't checked yet.

I thought it might have been a glitch on the screen, so I walked towards it, and fell down a level, since the trap was still there.

Is anyone able to reproduce this?

Not a bug. Disable traps is supposed to be temporary (and it's very short duration too).

Sky January 18, 2018 10:57

if you are playing angband-4.1.2-38-g4920786, can you check your known scrolls list and see if there is *remove curse* ? i've CL48 and DL98, just cleared my 4th greater vault, but still have not seen a single one.

Grelko January 18, 2018 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm (Post 127570)
Not a bug. Disable traps is supposed to be temporary (and it's very short duration too).

Ahh, that explains it. Thank you very much.

I normally try to disable them with "D". Never really used the spell that often.

Huqhox January 18, 2018 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estie (Post 127561)
the Wooden Torch of Ginoron <+6, +3>
------------------------------------
+6 dexterity.
+3 searching skill.
Provides resistance to light.
Cannot be harmed by fire.
Radius 1 light. Cannot be refueled.


Min Level 22, Max Level 49, Generation chance 8, Power 82, 2.2 lbs
Random light of power 82.

This is the best lightsource of this randart set, and has a maximum level of 49 (!).

Nick, I get that you really had to remove the Palantir from the randart set, proceed to nerf even the remaining lights and leave only crumbly torches, but can I please at least be allowed to find those remaining crumbs ?

Same in my current game - 2 torches, 2 lanterns (build 4.1.2-17-g17fe904) (and I've not found a single one despite being on DL 62 - but that might just be the RNG up to its usual tricks). Still running on a standard lantern and oil

Edit: Tested on the latest and it's either fixed or the RNG was feeling particularly vindictive last time

Anarchic Fox January 18, 2018 23:22

I came across a couple minor issues in a recent playthrough. First, if you're using the automatic walk command (period) and you reach a lava square, the main display will be a partially updated mess while the game prompts you whether you want to step onto the square. Second, Sauron and Morgoth give a message something like "You feel an intense desire to kill this monster" in their monster memory. There's a space missing between the previous sentence ("You know everything about this monster.") and that one.

Grelko January 19, 2018 05:41

Do quivers auto stack the max of 40, if you have enough arrows?

My inventory shows 40 and 17, but my quivers show 31 and 26.

31 Arrows (1d4) (+10, +5)
26 Seeker Arrows (4d4) (+4, +6)

-------------------------
Also,

If I'm walking towards lava in town using the number pad, sometimes it'll let me walk right into it, without getting the y/n message. As far as I could figure out, it seems as if I walk a space or two away, then try to walk back through it, I can. Especially if I walk towards it from an angle.

Could it be possible that using the number pad, is somehow bypassing the message? I don't use any hotkeys.

Nick January 19, 2018 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grelko (Post 127591)
Do quivers auto stack the max of 40, if you have enough arrows?

My inventory shows 40 and 17, but my quivers show 31 and 26.

31 Arrows (1d4) (+10, +5)
26 Seeker Arrows (4d4) (+4, +6)

Every 40 missiles you carry takes an inventory slot, so the 40 and 17 are just showing you that you have 57 total. You could have those 57 split across six quiver slots, and the inventory listing would still look the same - it's just there to show you if you're close to running out of room in your inventory. You need to look at the quiver to get actual quiver slot info.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grelko (Post 127591)
If I'm walking towards lava in town using the number pad, sometimes it'll let me walk right into it, without getting the y/n message. As far as I could figure out, it seems as if I walk a space or two away, then try to walk back through it, I can. Especially if I walk towards it from an angle.

Could it be possible that using the number pad, is somehow bypassing the message? I don't use any hotkeys.

The amount of lava damage is random (100 + 1d100), and you get the prompt if you are going to do more than 1/3 your current HP in damage. So if you have 300-600 HP, you will sometimes get a message and sometimes not.

Nick January 19, 2018 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarchic Fox (Post 127589)
I came across a couple minor issues in a recent playthrough. First, if you're using the automatic walk command (period) and you reach a lava square, the main display will be a partially updated mess while the game prompts you whether you want to step onto the square. Second, Sauron and Morgoth give a message something like "You feel an intense desire to kill this monster" in their monster memory. There's a space missing between the previous sentence ("You know everything about this monster.") and that one.

Thanks, will check.

Derakon January 19, 2018 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 127597)
The amount of lava damage is random (100 + 1d100), and you get the prompt if you are going to do more than 1/3 your current HP in damage. So if you have 300-600 HP, you will sometimes get a message and sometimes not.

This feels weird to me. What would be wrong with just always prompting?

Anarchic Fox January 19, 2018 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 127598)
Thanks, will check.

I forgot to mention, I think it only happened in cases where the screen scrolled during the walk... it looked like the new screen was drawn up until the lava tile, and the previous screen was drawn after it.

Grelko January 19, 2018 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 127597)
Every 40 missiles you carry takes an inventory slot, so the 40 and 17 are just showing you that you have 57 total.

Thanks for the info, I just thought my inventory would show how many was in each quiver seperately, but stacking to 40 is fine. If I need to use a particular arrow, I can always use "f"


Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 127597)
The amount of lava damage is random (100 + 1d100), and you get the prompt if you are going to do more than 1/3 your current HP in damage. So if you have 300-600 HP, you will sometimes get a message and sometimes not.

The damage caused by lava must be a lot less than (100 +1d100). I only had around 140 when I posted that message.

It seems like lava damage is closer to (50 + 1d10)

I was at Dl15 last night with 170 or so, and never even got a prompt, it just let me walk right into it. It did around 50-60 each time. That could explain why I didn't get a prompt that time, since it's less than 1/3 of my max hp.

Does fire resist lower the damage caused by lava? That could be why I didn't take as much.

Tibarius January 20, 2018 18:05

killed by something
 
was fighting emperor wight, had ring of see invisible on, emperor wight casted a nether bolt

The message was Somthing ... but the tombstone revealed it was the emperor wight.

Looks like a bug to me, that the message tells the player something instead of emperor wight.

PowerWyrm January 24, 2018 11:25

The debug command to generate objects is completely broken. I was trying to generate a morning star (+x,+y) and then a morning star of slay orc (+x,+y) to verify something about pricing, but I can't choose the ego nor change the hit/dam bonuses on the ego item, and when I try to change the hit/dam bonuses on the enchanted item by rerolling it as good the game simply crashes...

PowerWyrm January 24, 2018 11:30

Btw I just checked and both morning stars sell for the same price. You even get more money for the regular one if you don't know the slay orc rune...

Apparently, the power of slays/brands is ridiculously small compared to the rest of the object properties. The low slays for example contribute to a couple % to the power calculation, and that power is then multiplied by the dice power and divided by 100, which most of the time results in zero added power.

Nick January 28, 2018 05:41

OK, there is a new update to master with the weapon damage bug (I think) fixed. Available on the nightlies page.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm (Post 127508)
Looking at the code, the only difference is that now it uses calc_bonuses() instead of doing some hack for off weapon extra blows.

*details snipped*

Actually, it was that my hack to put back in the original STR and DEX (needed for calculating hypothetical extra blows) was happening too early, so it was factored into the STR, DEX adjustments to to-hit and to-dam. Fix was to only re-adjust STR and DEX right before the blows calculation in calc_bonuses().

Grotug January 28, 2018 17:46

Fine wine doesn't remove fear. My status reads: "Afraid, bold".

Nick January 28, 2018 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grotug (Post 127730)
Fine wine doesn't remove fear. My status reads: "Afraid, bold".

My guess is you have something which gives permanent fear, like a ring of escaping.

Grotug January 28, 2018 22:46

I quaffed a !Heroism which removed the fear. I had been made afraid by an acolyte or apprentice.

PowerWyrm January 29, 2018 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 127733)
My guess is you have something which gives permanent fear, like a ring of escaping.

Nope, in object.txt, Fine Wine only grants BOLD, doesn't cure AFRAID. Since the two are separated now, I'm not even sure that's a bug. It could remain that way...

Nick January 29, 2018 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm (Post 127746)
Nope, in object.txt, Fine Wine only grants BOLD, doesn't cure AFRAID. Since the two are separated now, I'm not even sure that's a bug. It could remain that way...

Quite correct, I was reading the wrong entry... Working as designed.

Ingwe Ingweron January 29, 2018 20:39

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 127728)
OK, there is a new update to master with the weapon damage bug (I think) fixed....
Actually, it was that my hack to put back in the original STR and DEX (needed for calculating hypothetical extra blows) was happening too early, so it was factored into the STR, DEX adjustments to to-hit and to-dam. Fix was to only re-adjust STR and DEX right before the blows calculation in calc_bonuses().

NOT FIXED! Sorry, Nick. I'm attaching a savefile in hope that it helps you locate the problem. Attachment 1603

@ currently is wielding Narthanc (has found all the 'thancs). Damage shows as 3.8 blows per round, average damage/round 184.7 vs. non-resistant creatures and 144.7 vs. others. The 'thancs in @'s pack show the same.

@ has also just found Gondricam. Inspecting it on the floor, damage shows as 2.7 blows per round, average damage/round 101.1. Picking it up, it shows the same in the pack.

Now, have @ wield Gondricam. Damage now shows as 3.0 blows per round, average damage/round 110.5. The 'thancs in @'s pack now show 4.1 blows per round, average damage/round 200 vs. non-resistant creatures and 156.8 vs. others.

Gondircam's +4 Dexterity bonus is still not properly accounted for when inspected on the floor or in the pack, and when wielded is throwing off the calculations for the other weapons which will not benefit from the Dex bonus once they are swapped.

Ingwe Ingweron January 29, 2018 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm (Post 127746)
Nope, in object.txt, Fine Wine only grants BOLD, doesn't cure AFRAID. Since the two are separated now, I'm not even sure that's a bug. It could remain that way...

Doesn't a !Boldness cure fear? What is Boldness if it doesn't cure fear? Not that fine wine would do much for me to strengthen courage, I'd need a much stiffer drink. :)

Nick January 29, 2018 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron (Post 127760)
NOT FIXED! Sorry, Nick. I'm attaching a savefile in hope that it helps you locate the problem. Attachment 1603

Is that savefile from 4.1.2, the latest nightly build, or the feature/magic branch? If the last, which build?

Derakon January 29, 2018 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron (Post 127761)
Doesn't a !Boldness cure fear? What is Boldness if it doesn't cure fear? Not that fine wine would do much for me to strengthen courage, I'd need a much stiffer drink. :)

Boldness is temporary protection from fear. I agree that it ought to cure extant fear statuses.

Ingwe Ingweron January 30, 2018 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 127763)
Is that savefile from 4.1.2, the latest nightly build, or the feature/magic branch? If the last, which build?

It is from the latest nightly build, as linked in your post that the issue was fixed. Nightly 28 Jan 2018 at 04:25 UTC, revision c4cfd6a2, macosx

Nick January 30, 2018 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron (Post 127766)
It is from the latest nightly build, as linked in your post that the issue was fixed. Nightly 28 Jan 2018 at 04:25 UTC, revision c4cfd6a2, macosx

...although apparently augmented with a couple of books from SongOfIceAndFireband - it took me some time to open ;)

Problem confirmed - I will get back to this when I have some more time.

fph January 30, 2018 16:50

O wait -- I've been playing for years and I never knew that wine cured fear? *facepalm* I've always thought that non-ration food items were basically junk, and ignored them in shops.

What's the logic behind two different consumables with basically the same effect then (!boldness and wine)?

Derakon January 30, 2018 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by fph (Post 127773)
What's the logic behind two different consumables with basically the same effect then (!boldness and wine)?

Flavor? *shrug*

Ingwe Ingweron January 30, 2018 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 127770)
...although apparently augmented with a couple of books from SongOfIceAndFireband - it took me some time to open ;)

Problem confirmed - I will get back to this when I have some more time.

Forgot about those, which I used for testing the malleability of spells and classes in the edit files when we were parsing through all those line-by-line back when we were talking about whether edit files could be manipulated to create hybrid classes. Haven't pursued that line now that you are doing the experimental branch. Didn't know they affected the savefile unless one of the objects appeared on the level or were used by the class in question. I'll make sure to delete those objects.

luneya January 30, 2018 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by fph (Post 127773)
O wait -- I've been playing for years and I never knew that wine cured fear? *facepalm* I've always thought that non-ration food items were basically junk, and ignored them in shops.

What's the logic behind two different consumables with basically the same effect then (!boldness and wine)?

Wine acts as a nerfed hybrid of food and !heroism--it does not actually cure fear, but rather gives you a status effect that makes you temporarily immune to fear-causing attacks. Its main benefit is that is an always available in the shops, whereas !heroism, !boldness, and !berserk strength are only sometimes available (though the chance of getting at least one of the three is almost certain, as they are stocked by both the alchemist and the temple). Also, if you're severely cash-strapped, the combination of !boldness and wine is much cheaper than buying !heroism/berserk, and together they will allow you to both cure and resist fear.

Pete Mack January 31, 2018 05:12

!Heroism is still significantly better, as it adds +10 to attack, which is a big deal for an early character or for a mage using melee or archery.

wobbly January 31, 2018 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 127774)
Flavor? *shrug*

The wine tastes better.

Tibarius January 31, 2018 17:10

stun from ice spear
 
I had immunity cold by ring of power but an ice spear still could stun me.

I realy consider it a bug that mana storm does not has 0% fail with maxint + CL50 - it is just nerving that you fail but doesn not basically change gameplay.

Edit: +1 for the mages vs Morgoth :)

Derakon January 31, 2018 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tibarius (Post 127782)
I had immunity cold by ring of power but an ice spear still could stun me.

The stunning is because you got whacked with a frozen rock. Ice is a different kind of damage from cold -- cold is like walking into a freezer, while ice is tripping and smacking your face on a glacier. Cold immunity protects you from the temperature effects, but not the physical effects.

(Which is not to say that the game does a good job of calling this out to the player)

Nick February 4, 2018 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron (Post 127775)
Forgot about those, which I used for testing the malleability of spells and classes in the edit files when we were parsing through all those line-by-line back when we were talking about whether edit files could be manipulated to create hybrid classes. Haven't pursued that line now that you are doing the experimental branch. Didn't know they affected the savefile unless one of the objects appeared on the level or were used by the class in question. I'll make sure to delete those objects.

Yes, the savefile having more objects than the version you're opening it in always causes problems.

Am now having more of a look at this; really a lot of both the calculation code and the damage display code needs rewriting, but I don't really want to do a major rewrite for 4.1.x because it would probably introduce new bugs. So I will try to get the logic straight with the current code, leave it sitting on master for a while to make sure it's fixed (and give a chance for any more bugs to be found), and then release a 4.1.3 which with luck will be the last 4.1.x.

Also, gratuitous ad for feature/magic branch (source and builds), now with necromancers.

Nick February 4, 2018 03:17

New builds on the nightlies page actually fix the weapon damage/blows info, I believe. Please let me know if there are still problems.

Ingwe Ingweron February 4, 2018 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 127804)
New builds on the nightlies page actually fix the weapon damage/blows info, I believe. Please let me know if there are still problems.

Confirmed fixed. Now working as expected. :D

Haven't had a lot of time to test the experimental branch with the revamped and new classes, and those with more experience playing classes in variants will probably have better input, but I'm looking forward to giving them a go! :)

PowerWyrm February 5, 2018 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 127804)
New builds on the nightlies page actually fix the weapon damage/blows info, I believe. Please let me know if there are still problems.

You should try using stat_add instead of stat_ind and you can probably remove all the hacks ;)

Nick February 5, 2018 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm (Post 127811)
You should try using stat_add instead of stat_ind and you can probably remove all the hacks ;)

Yeah, I thought of that, but having already got this wrong three or four times I decided to keep it to something I knew would work.

Nick February 6, 2018 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron (Post 127805)
Confirmed fixed. Now working as expected. :D

Sadly, there is still a bug (I believe), where I have made hypothetical increases to STR and DEX become actual increases. I will try to get a fix to this out soon, but until then it's a massive exploit.

PowerWyrm February 6, 2018 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 127829)
Sadly, there is still a bug (I believe), where I have made hypothetical increases to STR and DEX become actual increases. I will try to get a fix to this out soon, but until then it's a massive exploit.

You should leave that as a feature and make all fighters think they are Goku :D

Nick February 6, 2018 11:28

Bug now fixed (I think), new builds on the nightlies page.

Ingwe Ingweron February 11, 2018 06:22

Something still seems off on the runeid for Element rings and Bodykeeping rings. For example, =Ice activated gives temp cold resistance, and description of ring says it provided cold resistance, but the rune remains unknown unless attacked by something cold. Likewise, the =bodykeeping descriptions says it sustains Str, Dex and Con, but the runes aren't learned unless attacked by the particular stat draining trap or stat draining monster. This is on the nightly master.

Sky February 12, 2018 10:29

Ring Of Digging still doesn't id correctly. You need to activate it for the effect, even if wearing it allows you to break granite with a whip .. you should learn the run of digging by digging, not by casting S2M.

Nick February 12, 2018 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky (Post 127945)
Ring Of Digging still doesn't id correctly. You need to activate it for the effect, even if wearing it allows you to break granite with a whip .. you should learn the run of digging by digging, not by casting S2M.

Are you sure you're playing 4.1.2? Because putting on a Ring of Digging does ID it - I just tested it.

Nick February 12, 2018 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron (Post 127916)
Something still seems off on the runeid for Element rings and Bodykeeping rings. For example, =Ice activated gives temp cold resistance, and description of ring says it provided cold resistance, but the rune remains unknown unless attacked by something cold. Likewise, the =bodykeeping descriptions says it sustains Str, Dex and Con, but the runes aren't learned unless attacked by the particular stat draining trap or stat draining monster. This is on the nightly master.

I'm assuming this is with flavours known at birth but runes not known. That is such a weird set of options to choose - why would anyone do that??

*hides from Gwarl*

Ingwe Ingweron February 12, 2018 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 127950)
I'm assuming this is with flavours known at birth but runes not known. That is such a weird set of options to choose - why would anyone do that??

*hides from Gwarl*

Yes, not a bug then. :D

PowerWyrm February 13, 2018 09:53

You should just group those two options, one without the other makes no sense.


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