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postal83 March 18, 2021 01:56

Tips for Identification
 
Hey all, pretty new player here. I have some questions about strategies for identifying items. Sorry if this stuff is in the in-game help file. I compiled on linux and cant build the docs due to a dependency I can't seem to get installed with apt. I will try to figure this out soon...:confused:

Anyways, on to my questions:

I found a full plate of armor that I dropped in the shop to have it identified. It's the best armor I've ever found (Full Plate Armour of Resitances (-3) [62,+11] but it costs 3x the money I currently have!

1. How long will it stay in the shop? If I have to spend time grinding for cash, will it still be there waiting for me?

2. I've found some scrolls of rune identification which I blew on dumb items. I wasn't sure how rare these were or how often shops stock on this item (if at all)? Seems like the cheapest way to get an item ID'd. Should I be hoarding these scrolls for cases like above?

3. If I use an unidentified item, do I eventually understand/identify it? I'm assuming this is also how I get cursed.

4. Am I able to remove cursed items at will or do I need scroll to remove curse? Does removing the curse make the item "uncursed" and usable again? I haven't really experimented with cursed things yet.

Sorry for the noob questions, but I'm slowly learning from my very preventable deaths! I'm so used to RLs totally shafting you with RNG. I'm really digging the way Angband plays, feels more like a proper game than RNGesus gambling.

https://i.imgur.com/2unBlbK.png

Pete Mack March 18, 2021 02:13

The main trick is: Dont sweat it! Good items will become obvious soon enough. if you find an object that you are never going to use, don't worry about ID. If you have space in your pack, you can take it to a store for the purpose. Neatly all genuinely useful items are mostly obvious from (almost) the moment you put them on, with the following exceptions:
* ring/gloves/shoes of FA
* Armor of resistance, unless you know at least one resistance in advance.
* ring of rPois
* amulet of rElec/rAcid or ring of rFire+rCold
* boots of Stability

Edit: To id something by use, you have to be using it. Otherwise just leave it or sell it.

Plate armor of resistance is good, but it isn't great. And full plate is heavier than a starting character really wants.You'll find some in the dungeon eventually , usually near DL 20. You don't really need it till significantly later, when adult dragkns start showing up

Cloak of protection is obvious.

The big deal early on is a branded weapon. They are in the almost immediate group. Use a {??} weapon against a weak monster. If it doesn't ID immediately, don't sweat it: basic slay weapons are near useless unless they also do good the best damage against everything else.

postal83 March 18, 2021 02:41

Thanks for the tips Pete! Yeah, I should probably stop worrying about this kind of stuff and just get more time under my belt and I will get there eventually.

whartung March 18, 2021 04:05

And what hasn't been answered is:

No, it won't remain in the shop for long. Certainly not long enough to farm enough gold to buy it.

But it's ok. However nice the piece of kit is, it's not what in the end saves or kills you. And there's always more.

archolewa March 18, 2021 04:09

Also, remember that once you've ID'd a rune, it's ID'd forever on everything (for that character anyway). So there is no real reason to hoard Identify Rune scrolls.

bughunter March 18, 2021 06:31

Selling exceptional items to shops is the most expensive way to ID them, but it works quite well with scrolls and potions.

Another way is to buy one of every scroll or potion in each shop, to "pre-identify" them.

In general, quaffing unidentified potions won't kill your character, as long as he's in a safe situation. Scrolls aren't as safe...

For rods, staves, and wands, the first thing to try is using them on a weak monster... some may be deleterious to @'s safety and happiness, so make sure you do this with full HP and an emergency escape. (Even standing on stairs is enough for the latter if you can't phase or teleport.)

Some may not identify on first try if their target dungeon feature (like a monster, a monster's status, @ status, trap, etc.) isn't present or aimed at. So try directing the effect at a door, or trap, or using it while @ is hurt or confused.

Pete has already given good advice for rings, amulets, weapons and armor.

In general, there's plenty of almost everything so don't obsess over potentially losing a suit of armor or a weapon. You're gonna find something even better sooner or later, and then something better than that...

...if you delve deep enough.

Eventually that plate armor of resistance would've just become something you had to clean out of your home and leave for the street urchins to collect.

fph March 18, 2021 07:29

Regarding curses:

* curses are properties of armor and weapon, exactly like resistances and stat bonuses.
* they have a negative effect on you that is active while you are wearing the cursed item (e.g. "it paralyses you every now and then"; "it summons a monster every now and then", "it makes you vulnerable to electricity", "it prevents you from teleporting").
* a curse is identified automatically when the effect first applied and is noticed by the player (and the weapon is marked as {cursed}. There may be multiple curses on the same item, each with its own rune.
* Each curse has a power. "Remove curse" can remove a curse with power up to 50 (and has a probability to fail; I think the formula for failure is power > 1d50); the more rare *Remove curse* can remove curses with power up to 100.
* you can freely wear and remove cursed items (this used to be different in much older versions, but now the curse system has been reworked). When you remove the item, the effect of the curse stops.
* As you get to know the items in the game better, you will often be able to guess which properties an object has, and in particular guess which runes must be curses (because all other properties of the object are known). This helps you in knowing which items you can safely sell to shops to identify them and which ones it is better to wear.
* Curses are pretty straightforward in general; "it prevents you from teleporting" is probably the most tricky one to figure out; it can kill you if it happens at a bad time.
* In any case, taking risks and id'ing items by use most of the times is considered the best strategy.

Mondkalb March 18, 2021 08:19

If you are resting unknown scrolls/staffs etc, it is wise to do so while standing on stairs. This might still take you into uncomfortable situations in case of self-teleporting items.

Selkie March 18, 2021 09:18

It's funny but if you play long enough you start to be able to fairly accurately guess what an unID'd item is just based on depth and how it stacks.

I never bother carting items to the shops for ID, too lazy.

In the early game only quaff potions at safe moments and when you have enough CLW to save you if it's poison. Also beware of potions of sleep which effectively paralyse you for so long that even a rat will eat you before you can wake up.

Never shoot a mystery wand at a unique, haste monster and heal monster can be devastating on Lagduf or any early o or k unique (or a tiger!)

Probably the most annoying mystery potions are the stat buff/nerf potions which have an annoying habit of always nerfing the stat you want.

The more I write the more I think I should just sell in the shops.

You can also play with a birth option "know all flavours at birth" - it's less fun in the long run and removes some of the storytelling.

Mondkalb March 18, 2021 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selkie (Post 151961)
...
Probably the most annoying mystery potions are the stat buff/nerf potions which have an annoying habit of always nerfing the stat you want.
...

Looking at you, potion of contemplation.

Sky March 18, 2021 10:27

earlier on a leather armor of resistance or - even better - a wicker shield of resistance are preferable. They weight much less, allowing you to carry more, not slowing you down, and do not risk encumbering you thus reducing you max mana points (if you are a spellcaster).
The additional AC is good, but not great. the effect ("resistance") is what really makes the difference.

Once you get to DL30+ and start finding potions of stat increase, you will be able to easily carry a lot of weight.

Estie March 18, 2021 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mondkalb (Post 151964)
Looking at you, potion of contemplation.

You should play more priests (and look at potions of intellect, instead).

whartung March 18, 2021 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by bughunter (Post 151957)
Selling exceptional items to shops is the most expensive way to ID them, but it works quite well with scrolls and potions.

99% of the stuff you sell to the shops is junk. Selling an exceptional item is a great way to learn about a bunch of runes.

At low level, none of these items is a game changer. So, I just wantonly sell everything.

DudeMan March 18, 2021 16:52

One very cheap way to learn basic runes is buying amulets and rings (Things like amulet of resist acid, amulet of slow digestion etc.) from the magic shop. They cost next to nothing and you can sell them back immediately to get back some of your money. If you had bought an amulet of resist acid and an amulet of resist lightning you would have been able to guess that you have found a resistance armor. Only non draconic, non special armors that have two basic resistances are armor of resistance and armor of elvenkind. Elvenkinds always give you stealth which is immediately identified on wearing the item.

When you find basic slay weapons you should first try them atleast against an animal and a person and something evil. This way you will learn slay animal, slay evil, fire brand, cold brand, acid brand, poison brand... runes. If you are strong enough and deep enough you can also try it against trolls, orcs, dragons, demons etc.. Usually when my @ is strong enough to engage these creatures I have already learned these runes by other means.

Many times it is a good idea to buy a weapon with a rune you dont yet know and then sell it back immediately. If the weapon costs less than about 1300 gold you will identify it for a lot less than if you use scroll of identify you bought from the black market.

Identify scrolls can be found from the black market. They cost 600 gold pieces so they are a little bit expencive for a starting character. Normally maby 70% of my scrolls of identify are from the black market.

Sky March 18, 2021 18:46

if an armor has: rFire {??}

it can be either
1. Resistance
2. rFire + curse

if it has: rFire rCold {??}

it can be
1. Resistance
2. Resistance + curse

once you are deeper, they could be Elvenkind, but by that time you generally know all the runes. It will take a while to learn all the tricks to selling for max profit, unfortunately.

For instance. If you have an unidentified weapon, you can
1. sell it
2. use it and discover what bonuses it has
3. use it, NOT discover what bonuses it has, at which point the store will likely pay much less than Op1 or Op2 because it thinks it may be cursed.
after Op3, you can 4. leave it at home, sell later, after you ?Identify or learn the rune.

Op1, selling can lead to losing some money, but you will learn the runes. Op2/3 can also lead to a lower sell value, to the point where it may be a bigger loss.

In Angband in general there will be a lot of permanent loss early on - you lose stat points to draining, stat-swap potions, you lose AC points to acid, weapon bonus to disenchantment, potions and scrolls to fire and acid etc ..

Once you go deeper and get higher in level, this will stop happening; artifacts, rDisenchant, *Acid, *Fire, sustains ..

when i started playing YEARS ago, i would save scum and i would replace the save file FOR LOSING A SINGLE POINT OF AC FROM A NORMAL ARMOR.

dont do that.

Pete Mack March 19, 2021 12:03

Oh yeah. It hadn't occurred to me, but ID is much easier if you have the 'no selling' birth option enabled. Those {??} weapons with no (near) obvious features really do have zero value in that case. Selling for ID costs nothing then.
Yes, you get somewhat less gold overall, but there are no worries about ID, or tedium of lugging stuff back to town for resale.

archolewa March 19, 2021 14:48

And then, after you've mastered the ID minigame (however you choose to do so), and have beaten the game a couple of times with it, you go into the birth options, flip on "know all runes at birth" and "know all flavors at birth" and marvel at how much faster and less tedious the earlygame is when you dont have to identify anything.

Knowing everything is my antidrug.

whartung March 19, 2021 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by archolewa (Post 151986)
And then, after you've mastered the ID minigame (however you choose to do so), and have beaten the game a couple of times with it, you go into the birth options, flip on "know all runes at birth" and "know all flavors at birth" and marvel at how much faster and less tedious the earlygame is when you dont have to identify anything.

Knowing everything is my antidrug.

Yea, actually, this is what I do. I didn't find the ID game very interesting, just more busy work mechanics to extort limited bag size.

I'm sure its different in Ironman mode, or some other limited ruleset.

Selkie March 19, 2021 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by whartung (Post 151987)
Yea, actually, this is what I do. I didn't find the ID game very interesting, just more busy work mechanics to extort limited bag size.

I'm sure its different in Ironman mode, or some other limited ruleset.

Since we're doing dirty confessions, I also do this now. I got to the stage where the ID game was cracked and I was just finding it a bore. I feel a bit the same with the hunger games too, if I'm honest. But I suppose that has a bit more end game tactical play for stopping potion quaffing spam abuse

archolewa March 19, 2021 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by whartung (Post 151987)
I'm sure its different in Ironman mode, or some other limited ruleset.

Honestly, it was playing without WoR that finally made me swallow my pride and turn off the ID minigame. When I could just throw things at the stores, I found the ID game a lot like the hunger game: inoffensive, and I liked the flavor enough that I had no problem with it. Having to identify runes the hard way was SOOOOO tedious that I finally said "screw it" and turned it off.

Food is a bit more interesting without a town, mostly in that it incentivizes me to keep moving even when not fully healed. Mostly though I just carry a stack of Scrolls of Remove Hunger (lighter than rations), and eat whatever I find off the floor.

Grotug March 19, 2021 23:18

I still find it somewhat fun/rewarding trying to figure out which ring is a Free Action among other runes, such as worrying whether or not I have disenchant or rPois on a new artifact/elvenkind; but I have more or less cracked it at this point. It can be kind of annoying lugging around weapons and trying them on the right types of monsters, though, especially when orcs are still dangerous, in which case learning slay evil is risky business (although I keep forgetting you can *throw* weapons at monsters to learn their runes!) Yeah, for me the rune-mini game is still fun.

Pete Mack March 20, 2021 00:13

@Grotug--
FA, isn't *that* hard to figure out. All it takes is a -1 (or -2) speed amulet and a homunculous. Or boots. There are effectively only two tests for unknown boots: jumping in a pit, or getting hit by a minor paralyzer.

Mondkalb March 20, 2021 11:45

Also: Potions of sleep. I really shouldn't set those on ignore. ^^

Sphara March 20, 2021 14:10

Also: anything with SLOW spell can id FrAct.

Pete Mack March 20, 2021 16:29

@Sphara-
Sure. But you need to wait around for it to cast the spell. Letting a u take a shot is easier. Sometimes I change th color on paralyzing traps till I ID FA.

archolewa March 20, 2021 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mondkalb (Post 152007)
Also: Potions of sleep. I really shouldn't set those on ignore. ^^

This is actually something I appreciated about rune identification without the town. All of those "bad" potions now had a use. Especially sleep. Paralyzed by humonculus (or carrion crawler) has killed enough of my characters that I really wouldnt want to find out the hard way.

Didnt appreciate it enough to keep using rune ID, but you know. Just one of several ways I found the game improved without a town.


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