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-   -   [n00b] (v2.7.8) Arrows/Bolts using one slot per each unit? (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=9184)

OverlySensitiveHalfTroll November 16, 2018 19:53

[n00b] (v2.7.8) Arrows/Bolts using one slot per each unit?
 
First-timer here, playing version 2.7.8. After I shoot/fire arrows or bolts, the ones I managed to save I pick from the ground, but these ones don't go to the same slot where all the other ones are stored, instead they require an entire slot for each that I pick from the ground. Is this normal or am I missing something?

Pete Mack November 16, 2018 20:11

It is a bug. 2.7.8 is an ancient version, so who knows what is wrong.

Edit: is this happening with un-ID ammo, or fully IDed ammo that says (+0,+0). If the former, I suspect it is a mis-feature that was fixed in later releases.

OverlySensitiveHalfTroll November 17, 2018 05:04

I don't remember if the arrows were identified or not (I don't have them anymore) but this happened with the arrows I already used (threw) and after I killed the enemy I picked them up from the ground. Each one would occupy a slot. Weird. xDDDD Not the kind of bug I would expect to find in something which is past version 2.5 xDDDD Do you happen to know which more recent version don't have protection against save scumming? (life already has a crap lot of rules, don't bring rules to my games too, please...)

Pete Mack November 17, 2018 08:52

At one point there was a rule that un-IDed objects don't stack. In later versions, this only applied to magic devices, very likely because of the ammo issue.

fph November 17, 2018 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverlySensitiveHalfTroll (Post 134345)
Do you happen to know which more recent version don't have protection against save scumming? (life already has a crap lot of rules, don't bring rules to my games too, please...)

In all versions, you can set your character to ignore permadeath =xd (options / cheat options / allow player to avoid death). Maybe this is sufficient for your purposes?

takkaria November 17, 2018 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverlySensitiveHalfTroll (Post 134345)
I don't remember if the arrows were identified or not (I don't have them anymore) but this happened with the arrows I already used (threw) and after I killed the enemy I picked them up from the ground. Each one would occupy a slot. Weird. xDDDD Not the kind of bug I would expect to find in something which is past version 2.5 xDDDD Do you happen to know which more recent version don't have protection against save scumming? (life already has a crap lot of rules, don't bring rules to my games too, please...)

Angband only started its public life at 2.4, and you are playing version released 22 years ago intended as a 'stabilised' version after a large-scale rewrite, so some bugs are to be expected, I think...

I don't think any versions of the game have save scumming protection though - you'd be fine playing the latest.

fph November 17, 2018 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by fph (Post 134347)
In all versions, you can set your character to ignore permadeath with the keys =xd (options / cheat options / allow player to avoid death). Maybe this is sufficient for your purposes?

EDIT: =xd is a sequence of keypresses, not an emoji :p

Sky November 17, 2018 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverlySensitiveHalfTroll (Post 134345)
I don't remember if the arrows were identified or not (I don't have them anymore) but this happened with the arrows I already used (threw) and after I killed the enemy I picked them up from the ground. Each one would occupy a slot. Weird. xDDDD Not the kind of bug I would expect to find in something which is past version 2.5 xDDDD Do you happen to know which more recent version don't have protection against save scumming? (life already has a crap lot of rules, don't bring rules to my games too, please...)

Just grab 4.1.2 and if you want to cheat death then bring up the Task Manager and kill the angband.exe process (not the application).

Ed_47569 November 18, 2018 01:35

V2.7.8 brings back some memories...this was the first version of Angband I discovered at school back in the late 1990s, when I was still playing Moria! Much prefer the current 4.1.3 though.

OverlySensitiveHalfTroll November 18, 2018 09:05

1) Yeah, now I see that when I use identified arrows they go back to their stack after being salvaged.
2) I am save scumming for my first playthroughs to see what I can and cannot do without having to invest massive amounts of time in a character (testing spells, weapons, strategies etc)
3) I'm using an old version because I thought newer ones had too much stuff removed or "balanced" as they say. We know that skulls are useless (allegedly) but it's nice to have them there instead of removing it altogether. The same with iron spikes. Or wooden torches for that matter. It's like someone removing the pistol from Doom because it's the least used weapon in the game.
4) I don't know if I should create another thread for this but probably not: about selling stuff to the shops, do anyone know if this is normal? I found a blessed Main Gauche (+3, +6) that the shopowner pays less than 10 gold to me but sells for 2800 afterwards. Would I have to identify the weapon first to be able to get a better haggling out of it? Or going down the dungeon and back up makes the prices/items change? Any tips for a quick buck at the start? I just find annoying that you arrive at DLVL10 and get almost all your gold stolen and that when you kill the creature who stole it the gold doesn't get reclaimed. It's still better than "Rogue" throwing Rattlesnakes at you draining all your Strength down without chance of killing them from a distance for example xDDDDDD

Sphara November 18, 2018 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverlySensitiveHalfTroll (Post 134362)
4) I don't know if I should create another thread for this but probably not: about selling stuff to the shops, do anyone know if this is normal? I found a blessed Main Gauche (+3, +6) that the shopowner pays less than 10 gold to me but sells for 2800 afterwards. Would I have to identify the weapon first to be able to get a better haggling out of it? Or going down the dungeon and back up makes the prices/items change?

You need to identify the object before selling it. Otherwise a shopkeeper won't offer anything better than coffee money for it and will even laugh at you when he gets a good item with a criminal price.
I don't remember prices changing in older versions for other reason than your Charisma score changing.

Carnivean November 18, 2018 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverlySensitiveHalfTroll (Post 134362)
3) I'm using an old version because I thought newer ones had too much stuff removed or "balanced" as they say. We know that skulls are useless (allegedly) but it's nice to have them there instead of removing it altogether. The same with iron spikes. Or wooden torches for that matter.

Have you actually played the newer ones? There are wooden torches still in there. I can't go back to the old versions simply because the improvements made are so fundamentally better that not having them ruins the experience.

gglibertine November 18, 2018 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carnivean (Post 134369)
Have you actually played the newer ones? There are wooden torches still in there. I can't go back to the old versions simply because the improvements made are so fundamentally better that not having them ruins the experience.

What Carnivean said. Seriously, you should try the latest version. It's really good, and if you play with randarts enabled at the moment really high-powered ones are unusually common.

I've been playing since the beginning and I wouldn't go back.

Philip November 18, 2018 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverlySensitiveHalfTroll (Post 134362)
2) I am save scumming for my first playthroughs to see what I can and cannot do without having to invest massive amounts of time in a character (testing spells, weapons, strategies etc)

Cheat Death, which is still available in the newest version, is a better way to do this.
Quote:

4) I don't know if I should create another thread for this but probably not: about selling stuff to the shops, do anyone know if this is normal? I found a blessed Main Gauche (+3, +6) that the shopowner pays less than 10 gold to me but sells for 2800 afterwards. Would I have to identify the weapon first to be able to get a better haggling out of it? Or going down the dungeon and back up makes the prices/items change? Any tips for a quick buck at the start? I just find annoying that you arrive at DLVL10 and get almost all your gold stolen and that when you kill the creature who stole it the gold doesn't get reclaimed. It's still better than "Rogue" throwing Rattlesnakes at you draining all your Strength down without chance of killing them from a distance for example xDDDDDD
You have to identify stuff to be able to sell it for more than the base price, though identifying works a lot differently in current Angband, and you can turn off selling to make approximately the same amount of money in a much less tedious way.
That blessed Main Gauche was likely better than whatever you were using for damage (old Angband does not give calculations for expected damage output, IIRC, but current Angband does), and you wouldn't have sold it because you would already know there was something remarkable about it due to runeID.
To make money at the start of the game, play the current version, turn off selling (it's still implemented as an option but I recommend no-sell), and just go to dlvl 5 or so, you'll find lots of cash. Or go even deeper, there's no real reason to hang around shallow levels.
If you don't want to get all your gold stolen, have a ranged attack, or leave the level if something is stealing your cash and you can't avoid it. Or play the current version of Angband, in which monsters who steal gold drop it when killed.

Werbaer November 19, 2018 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverlySensitiveHalfTroll (Post 134345)
Not the kind of bug I would expect to find in something which is past version 2.5

In old angband days, x.y.0 were supposed to be stable releases, and the ones in between were development releases.

In particular, from 2.7.1 to 2.7.9v6, most of the code was re-written.
So instead of 2.7.8, you should use 2.8.0 if you want to play a version from that time.

OverlySensitiveHalfTroll November 23, 2018 19:12

Thanks a lot guys. It took some experimentation to learn how to sell for better prices. I started to notice that it's not worth too much because you find better items just diving down. [oh really, new guy?? really?? don't you tell me...] Selling is only worth to purchase/stockpile cheap items like Recalls/PhaseDoor or Potions of Speed (which are items that are not always available at the shops) I was having this idea that as a first-timer I would be better off playing older versions first for the "legit" experience, but I'm glad you guys educated me. The game is fine, I just had to learn it properly. Now, off to kill that bastard Hill Orc chief that seamlessly chugs away my arrows and resist most things xDDDDDDD


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