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-   -   New memorable randarts (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=7244)

PowerWyrm February 2, 2016 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nivra (Post 108634)
I saw this artifact on the ground and got super excited. I thought it was sourced from a really deep art and had tons of value. Apparently, all the value was in the AC bonus.

I've had randart crowns in the past with nothing more than an AC boost. Or randart weapons with only tohit/todam boosts. Those are clearly marginally better than a "good" item, and clearly worse than any ego... No idea if randart generation will be rewritten someday, but it would be nice to ensure that artifacts get at least one extra ability besides tohit/todam/toac, even if it's something useless like feather falling.

Estie February 2, 2016 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm (Post 108645)
I've had randart crowns in the past with nothing more than an AC boost. Or randart weapons with only tohit/todam boosts. Those are clearly marginally better than a "good" item, and clearly worse than any ego... No idea if randart generation will be rewritten someday, but it would be nice to ensure that artifacts get at least one extra ability besides tohit/todam/toac, even if it's something useless like feather falling.

Is that really horrible ? I find it amusing when I get one of those randarts. As long as there are bad randarts in the game, it doesnt matter in which way they are bad - they arent getting used anyway.

That crown by the op is perfectly fine, just not stellar. It has FA and pconf.

Derakon February 2, 2016 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm (Post 108645)
I've had randart crowns in the past with nothing more than an AC boost. Or randart weapons with only tohit/todam boosts. Those are clearly marginally better than a "good" item, and clearly worse than any ego... No idea if randart generation will be rewritten someday, but it would be nice to ensure that artifacts get at least one extra ability besides tohit/todam/toac, even if it's something useless like feather falling.

One of the big lessons we learned in the ego remix project that was part of v4 is that pluses are one of the better attributes weapons can get. Think about it: would you rather have a Mace (2d4) <+0, +0> with See Invisible, or a Mace (2d4) <+10, +10>? It's not remotely a straightforward choice (unless you're a mage). The fact is that in current Vanilla, ego items are always built "on top of" good items, so they get the pluses from the good item and then often get additional pluses on top of that. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but oftentimes the pluses overshadow the other abilities on the item.

Of course, for armor pluses are less relevant, because AC has less impressive effects.

Pete Mack February 2, 2016 17:03

Well combat pluses are always a huge deal on armor: even Gorlim is tempting to try, though I've never quite pulled it off.

Nick February 2, 2016 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Mack (Post 108652)
Well combat pluses are always a huge deal on armor: even Gorlim is tempting to try, though I've never quite pulled it off.

I guess you mean you've always pulled it off :)

Timo Pietilš February 3, 2016 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 108650)
Of course, for armor pluses are less relevant, because AC has less impressive effects.

That's mostly because you have five slots for armor and one for weapon. If you would get all of your AC from just single item, then that AC would become pretty d*mn important.

You can sacrifice one piece of armor completely for other features if the rest still give you usable amount of AC. The way angband is made makes AC a side-effect of other armor features: when you have a good set of armor-related features, you also have good AC almost without exception.

PowerWyrm February 3, 2016 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Mack (Post 108652)
Well combat pluses are always a huge deal on armor: even Gorlim is tempting to try, though I've never quite pulled it off.

Especially when you play a martial artist: http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=16703

Pete Mack February 3, 2016 17:44

Nice! Gorlim AND Haradrim (and Vilya and Cambeleg too.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm (Post 108675)
Especially when you play a martial artist: http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=16703


Pete Mack February 8, 2016 18:06

I got a weapon with four out of five brands, along with *slay* demon and some others. It also activated for healing. Unfortunately it was only (2d6) (+10,+13). Putting on slays does not make that weapon more powerful. More powerful means it can do more than 220 damage per turn after the slays are applied.
Weapon power should be based on dice and max damage after slays; if it is only mediocre all the slays in the world don't make it more powerful.

Derakon February 8, 2016 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Mack (Post 108831)
I got a weapon with four out of five brands, along with *slay* demon and some others. It also activated for healing. Unfortunately it was only (2d6) (+10,+13). Putting on slays does not make that weapon more powerful. More powerful means it can do more than 220 damage per turn after the slays are applied.
Weapon power should be based on dice and max damage after slays; if it is only mediocre all the slays in the world don't make it more powerful.

The randart generator takes into account how much more powerful each brand makes the weapon, I believe including examining the monster list to say "okay, if this brand is added to this weapon, then it will do X bonus damage against Y additional enemies of respective power levels Z, that it didn't already do bonus damage to." In other words, the randart generator is perfectly aware that the marginal additional utility of an extra brand on a small-dice weapon is pretty small, so it doesn't assign much value to those brands when calculating the randart's power.


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