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-   -   Blackguards: 4.2.0 to 4.2.1 (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=9901)

DavidMedley May 5, 2020 15:53

I've often wondered about that stuff when in Bat form. Werewolf form might not be as limiting, which is why I suggested that maybe shapechange is the wrong mechanic for this.

EDIT: Werewolf shapechange was originally my idea, and it's fun and seems popular. Just saying maybe it shouldn't come with the same challenges and benefits (like at-will duration) that shapeshift does.

Hounded May 5, 2020 16:48

Tunnel: Yes. Most of the shapechanged forms would be able to tunnel. The only ones which don't make sense are bat and, possibly, Eagle. Write the rule for the 80%.

Opening Doors: Some forms (Werewolf, Pukelman) have opposable thumbs whilst most others would probably have to break through. I'd say the 80% rule here would be that doors are broken if you pass them while shapechanged. (I got zero rational for bat form on this).

Eating: Makes sense from the floor but not from inventory.

Use Items: I consider that all my stuff has been incorporated into my changed form. Makes sense that I can't drop my "claws" to change weapons while changed but I think that being unable to pick things up would be too obnoxious.

DavidMedley May 5, 2020 17:13

Good summary, Hounded. I imagine that picking up items they merge into your form just like your backpack does. It might be reasonable to only allow bashing doors while changed, and then STR penalties on bats and foxes etc could hinder that...?

mrfy May 12, 2020 02:22

It is strangely satisfying to change into werewolf form and see the message: "The ancient multi-hued dragon flees in terror!"

archolewa May 14, 2020 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMedley (Post 145217)
Good summary, Hounded. I imagine that picking up items they merge into your form just like your backpack does. It might be reasonable to only allow bashing doors while changed, and then STR penalties on bats and foxes etc could hinder that...?

Wouldn't this make bat form really bad at the thing it's supposed to be good at (exploring)? Bashing slows you down, and may or may not wake up nearby monsters depending on how sadistic Nick's feeling at the time.

I feel like this kind of limitation would encourage:

1. Explore to door.
2. Shapechange.
3. open Door.
4. Shapechange.

Which is right up there with Ye Olde Tunneling mechanics for tedium.

I feel like if we want to inhibit the abilities of changed shapes to open doors, then it should work like tunneling does now. The character auto shifts out long enough to open the door and then shifts back. So, opening doors will cost an extra couple of turns, but doesn't otherwise impact exploration.

*Or* we just say "Meh, the character is shapechanging one of their claws into a human hand long enough to open the door. They can do that. No they can't do that to wield a weapon because *mumble mumble* stop questioning mechanics that make your life easier!"

DavidMedley May 15, 2020 00:41

Yep, I agree with that, too. Happily, I'm not in charge of shapeshift mechanics :D

Hounded May 15, 2020 01:14

Come to think of it, I have a colony of little brown bats 'round here and they manage to get into the craziest places. Perhaps they're like mice with that ability to somehow squeeze through a keyhole or underneath a door without opening it. Immunity to doors & traps?

DavidMedley May 15, 2020 15:38

BGs Now Detect Fear
 
Nick is implementing an idea I had a while ago where BGs detect fear/rage/emotion. I put in Detect Life ("Seek Battle") instead because it was close and it didn't require me to program it :D

I think this will be pretty neutral to overall BG effectiveness, but will make the class even more distinct.

Here's the list that are living but not fearable (BG will lose the ability to detect these)

Code:

select name, depth, rarity from angband_420_monster where flags like "%NO_FEAR%" and (flags not like "%UNDEAD%" and flags not like "%nonliving%") order by CAST(depth AS signed) desc limit 200;
+-----------------------------------+-------+--------+
| name                              | depth | rarity |
+-----------------------------------+-------+--------+
| Morgoth, Lord of Darkness        | 100  | 1      |
| Wolf-Sauron                      | 99    | 0      |
| Serpent-Sauron                    | 99    | 0      |
| Sauron, the Sorcerer              | 99    | 1      |
| Huan, Wolfhound of the Valar      | 90    | 1      |
| Qlzqqlzuup, the Emperor Quylthulg | 79    | 3      |
| master quylthulg                  | 76    | 2      |
| greater demonic quylthulg        | 71    | 2      |
| greater rotting quylthulg        | 71    | 2      |
| greater draconic quylthulg        | 71    | 2      |
| Fëanorian raider                | 65    | 2      |
| werewolf of Sauron                | 63    | 2      |
| hezrou                            | 53    | 3      |
| hasty ent                        | 52    | 1      |
| death mold                        | 47    | 1      |
| berserker                        | 45    | 2      |
| demonic quylthulg                | 45    | 1      |
| rotting quylthulg                | 45    | 1      |
| draconic quylthulg                | 45    | 1      |
| black-hearted huorn              | 42    | 1      |
| death quasit                      | 40    | 3      |
| troll chieftain                  | 40    | 5      |
| disenchanter worm mass            | 40    | 3      |
| trapper                          | 36    | 3      |
| chest mimic                      | 35    | 4      |
| memory moss                      | 32    | 3      |
| nexus quylthulg                  | 32    | 1      |
| huorn                            | 31    | 1      |
| ring mimic                        | 29    | 3      |
| spectator                        | 28    | 2      |
| shimmering mold                  | 27    | 1      |
| wolf chieftain                    | 26    | 5      |
| abyss worm mass                  | 26    | 3      |
| nruling                          | 25    | 2      |
| black ooze                        | 23    | 1      |
| scroll mimic                      | 21    | 3      |
| quylthulg                        | 20    | 1      |
| blood falcon                      | 20    | 2      |
| red mold                          | 19    | 1      |
| Old Man Willow                    | 19    | 3      |
| evil eye                          | 18    | 3      |
| potion mimic                      | 18    | 3      |
| shambling mound                  | 18    | 2      |
| gelatinous cube                  | 16    | 4      |
| homunculus                        | 15    | 3      |
| magic mushroom patch              | 15    | 2      |
| lurker                            | 14    | 3      |
| ochre jelly                      | 13    | 3      |
| grape jelly                      | 12    | 3      |
| spotted jelly                    | 12    | 3      |
| nether worm mass                  | 12    | 3      |
| old forest tree                  | 11    | 2      |
| tengu                            | 10    | 1      |
| hairy mold                        | 10    | 1      |
| disenchanter mold                | 10    | 1      |
| clear mushroom patch              | 10    | 2      |
| lemure                            | 8    | 3      |
| green mold                        | 8    | 1      |
| red jelly                        | 7    | 1      |
| bloodshot eye                    | 7    | 3      |
| brown mold                        | 6    | 1      |
| purple mushroom patch            | 6    | 2      |
| blue ooze                        | 5    | 1      |
| rot jelly                        | 5    | 1      |
| green jelly                      | 5    | 1      |
| red worm mass                    | 5    | 1      |
| disenchanter eye                  | 5    | 2      |
| blue jelly                        | 4    | 1      |
| blue worm mass                    | 4    | 1      |
| green ooze                        | 3    | 2      |
| yellow mold                      | 3    | 1      |
| silver jelly                      | 3    | 2      |
| yellow jelly                      | 3    | 1      |
| radiation eye                    | 3    | 1      |
| clear worm mass                  | 3    | 2      |
| yellow worm mass                  | 3    | 2      |
| spotted mushroom patch            | 3    | 1      |
| white jelly                      | 2    | 1      |
| green worm mass                  | 2    | 1      |
| yellow mushroom patch            | 2    | 1      |
| shrieker mushroom patch          | 2    | 1      |
| grey mold                        | 1    | 1      |
| floating eye                      | 1    | 1      |
| white worm mass                  | 1    | 1      |
| grey mushroom patch              | 1    | 1      |
+-----------------------------------+-------+--------+
85 rows in set (0.002 sec)

And here's the list of non-living but fearable monsters that the BG will newly be able to detect after this change

Code:

select name, depth, rarity from angband_420_monster where flags not like "%NO_FEAR%" and (flags like "%UNDEAD%" or flags like "%nonliving%") order by CAST(depth AS signed) desc limit 200;
+--------------------------------------+-------+--------+
| name                                | depth | rarity |
+--------------------------------------+-------+--------+
| Vecna, the Emperor Lich              | 92    | 3      |
| The Witch-King of Angmar            | 85    | 3      |
| Khamûl, the Black Easterling        | 84    | 3      |
| Hoarmurath of Dir                    | 83    | 3      |
| Dwar, Dog Lord of Waw                | 82    | 3      |
| Ji Indur Dawndeath                  | 81    | 3      |
| Ren the Unclean                      | 80    | 3      |
| Akhorahil the Blind                  | 79    | 3      |
| Adunaphel the Quiet                  | 78    | 3      |
| Uvatha the Horseman                  | 77    | 3      |
| Feagwath, the Undead Sorcerer        | 77    | 2      |
| black reaver                        | 74    | 3      |
| nightwalker                          | 73    | 3      |
| nightcrawler                        | 69    | 3      |
| Tselakus, the Dreadlord              | 68    | 2      |
| Thuringwethil, the Vampire Messenger | 67    | 4      |
| archlich                            | 64    | 2      |
| dreadlord                            | 62    | 2      |
| nightwing                            | 61    | 3      |
| elder vampire                        | 59    | 3      |
| dracolich                            | 55    | 2      |
| demilich                            | 54    | 2      |
| dreadmaster                          | 54    | 2      |
| nether wraith                        | 54    | 2      |
| shadow                              | 50    | 3      |
| black wraith                        | 49    | 2      |
| vampire lord                        | 46    | 1      |
| grey wraith                          | 45    | 1      |
| undead beholder                      | 45    | 3      |
| dread                                | 44    | 2      |
| master lich                          | 41    | 2      |
| phantom                              | 40    | 3      |
| spirit troll                        | 40    | 3      |
| night mare                          | 39    | 3      |
| white wraith                        | 38    | 1      |
| spectre                              | 37    | 3      |
| emperor wight                        | 37    | 2      |
| master vampire                      | 36    | 1      |
| lich                                | 34    | 2      |
| shade                                | 34    | 3      |
| barrow wight                        | 33    | 3      |
| ghost                                | 31    | 1      |
| ghast                                | 30    | 3      |
| grave wight                          | 30    | 1      |
| vampire                              | 27    | 1      |
| ghoul                                | 26    | 2      |
| banshee                              | 24    | 2      |
| forest wight                        | 24    | 1      |
| moaning spirit                      | 12    | 2      |
| lost soul                            | 7    | 2      |
| green glutton ghost                  | 5    | 1      |
| poltergeist                          | 3    | 1      |
+--------------------------------------+-------+--------+
52 rows in set (0.002 sec)

While there are more monsters being missed now, the monsters now being detected seem more dangerous. Plus this change will help non-spoiled players know who they can Howl at.

At first I was wary of this change (even though it was my idea!) because I thought it would make the BG miss some crucial enemies. But now I'm pretty excited for it! What say you all?

DavidMedley May 15, 2020 16:06

Above depth 15 this is a net win for the BG. Being able to detect 4 invisible annoyances is great and puts BG High Elves at a more thematically-aligned disadvantage. Ochre Jelly will be more annoying than it already is, as I've found most mobiles with acid melee to be. Same for Gelatinous Cube later.

The homunculus at depth 15 will be more troublesome. I gave "Grim Purpose" at CL13 so BGs could avoid death at the hands of these and Umber Hulks. As long as you encounter the homunculus with enough SP to cast GP you'll be fine. If not, they're pretty rare, normal speed and low HP so they're not deadly if you know to keep away.

In the middle there we're trading a lot of Qs for liches and the like. That's probably good...? Interesting swap. Deeper you probably have better detection than this spell, but Nazgul are always good to detect. I notice Werewolves of Sauron drop out. I've been one-shotted by one of those out of depth before.

Not being able to detect the bosses shouldn't matter too much. You know they're there, so obviously you'll bring or wear something to detect them.

Anyway, still looks like a very interesting change that will present unique challenges to this class!

fph May 15, 2020 16:21

I spy with my little eye a SQL query there. Is there a way to generate an SQL-queryable database of monsters automatically? If there is one, that would seem useful information to me!


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