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-   -   Randart Players PLS REPLY (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=8250)

Nick February 7, 2017 10:10

Randart Players PLS REPLY
 
If you play with randarts, please tell me
  • Why you play randarts instead of standarts (whether sometimes or always)
  • What you like about current randarts
  • What you don't like about current randarts
  • Any other things you think might be relevant

I am planning to update the randart code; I have some ideas, but I want to get players' opinions first before saying anything. Please, if you play with randarts, give me as much info as possible, and I will be less likely to break them horribly and make you hate me and your life.

Huqhox February 7, 2017 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 117864)
If you play with randarts, please tell me
  • Why you play randarts instead of standarts (whether sometimes or always)
  • What you like about current randarts
  • What you don't like about current randarts
  • Any other things you think might be relevant

To answer your questions:

I always play with randarts because it adds extra variation which makes a game more interesting. It means I have to identify them rather than just know what they do from years of playing (or peeking in the artifact.txt file) and I get more interesting choices to make

What do I like? That they are more varied than the standard set. Yes that means that sometimes you get something underpowered. Yes that means that sometimes things are covered (and invariably some protection or resist is under-represented) but from my point of view that is fine; you have to compromise equipment more than with the standard set most of the time which is definitely more interesting

There's not much I don't like about the the current randarts; in fact the only real thing I don't like is that you always get The One Ring, Grond and Crown (even if you are unlikely to find The One Ring). I do like your idea of throwing some standard artifacts into the mix but (for me) it would be better if these three fixed ones were not necessarily always present but could also be subject to randomisations

Anything else relevant? It would be nice if there was an easy way to quickly determine what was already covered by equipment both at home and carried but really that's a nice to have. I know at some point I will need to resort to a spreadsheet to work out the best equipment combination (or the least worst combination in some cases)

PowerWyrm February 7, 2017 12:32

IIRC only randarts can generate artifact slings, DSMs and such. Otherwise, I like how they are generated right now: some items are themed (more chances to get INT/ESP on hats, speed on boots...), some are totally random.

Sky February 7, 2017 13:42

Because randarts are stronger. Im finding things like cesti +13 with +5 con and 4 resists, boots +11 with ESP, armor with +2 blows, even had two !*heal* activations.

The downside is almost no artis until DL40, and the occasional garbage arti.

Derakon February 7, 2017 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 117864)
If you play with randarts, please tell me
  • Why you play randarts instead of standarts (whether sometimes or always)
  • What you like about current randarts
  • What you don't like about current randarts
  • Any other things you think might be relevant

I am planning to update the randart code; I have some ideas, but I want to get players' opinions first before saying anything. Please, if you play with randarts, give me as much info as possible, and I will be less likely to break them horribly and make you hate me and your life.

Why: because I've played far too many games with standarts. They're very reliable at covering everything important while giving plenty of useful stat boosts. Randarts are anything but reliable, it makes the game more interesting.

What I like about randarts: the fact that I'll probably be missing something important for much of the game that I wouldn't be missing in a standart game. And it'll be a different thing each game! Plus sometimes you do roll triple 6s and get a randart set that just beats the pants off of anything you could get in standarts, but such things should be rare.

What I don't like: honestly, not much. They're in a pretty good place right now. Biggest problem would probably be uninspiring weapon randarts, which are probably based off of uninspiring artifacts (Paur*, *thanc, Elvagil) so no surprises there.

Other things: It'd be nice if we could see in the 'I'nspect screen what standart the randart is based off of. It'd help to calibrate expectations.

Nomad February 7, 2017 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 117864)
If you play with randarts, please tell me
  • Why you play randarts instead of standarts (whether sometimes or always)

Standarts are repetitive and therefore get pretty boring. Especially when you're not a very good player and rarely get beyond a middling depth so you find the same subset of half a dozen standarts again and again and again. (I also got sick of Nethack where the Ascension kit required assembling the same set of items every single game.) I'm always in favour of more random variation so I stick with game options that increase that.

I don't really have any issues with current randarts, to be honest. I do find it a bit annoying and boring that the randart lights always have the exact same activations as the standart lights of the same type. (Although just to be contrary, it also bugs me if randart DSM has an activation other than the appropriate breath type. I guess I regard the DSM activation as part of the base item and therefore something that shouldn't be subject to change.)

In general, I would probably favour anything that increases randomness, so I guess I'm in the opposite corner to PowerWyrm regarding slot-based odds of 'themed' elements like INT/WIS on helms and Speed on boots - I'm not keen on that and would prefer less predictability.

Basically, I'm all for as much randomisation as possible without getting into game-breaking stuff like an excess of off-weapon blows. I favour greater randomisation of egos as well.

Estie February 7, 2017 14:46

I always play with randarts because it feels like a fresh game before I was spoiled. When I used to play with standarts, I would see an augmented chainmail in a vault and think "oh, this is probably Caspanion". I take great pleasure in the treasure finding part of dungeoneering and not knowing what is inside is a big part of that. Without randarts, I would have stopped playing vanilla long ago.

Current randarts are perfectly fine. The fact that they turn up late is as it should be imo. It is good to have to make do with ego items at first and the delight of finding a superior artifact later is so much the greater for it.

If you really insist, here are 2 very minor nits:
- the difference between the top ego weapons and the (average) best artifacts could be a little higher.
- the One Ring is rare and of little relevance, but when I do find it I am bored. I understand that it wasnt randomized because its power value is too high, but I would like it if in this case the power balance between standarts and randarts was broken; you could just give it a power similar to Bladeturner and randomize it, too.

Mondkalb February 7, 2017 15:29

I sometimes play with randarts for some change and in hope of a (good) surprise here and there.
What I really hate are utterly useless randarts (gloves without anything useful and missing FA, useless weapons - sometimes they are hardly better than any normal weapon of the same type, useless combos like +Int and +WIS on one item).
Also, it apppeas that every second randart has to have a tunneling bonus. ^^

Derakon February 7, 2017 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mondkalb (Post 117876)
useless combos like +Int and +WIS on one item

Last time I looked, randarts that get one of INT/WIS always get the other, to avoid biasing one style of caster over the other. This is considerably easier than trying to ensure that both caster styles have a roughly equivalent amount of stat boosts in specific slots.

Mondkalb February 7, 2017 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 117877)
Last time I looked, randarts that get one of INT/WIS always get the other, to avoid biasing one style of caster over the other. This is considerably easier than trying to ensure that both caster styles have a roughly equivalent amount of stat boosts in specific slots.

Yeah, thought that it would be something like that.


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