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-   -   Identify nerfed in 4.1.0? (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=8490)

Pondlife August 3, 2017 18:17

Identify nerfed in 4.1.0?
 
Does anyone else feel that identify has been nerfed in 4.1.0?

One of the big turning points for a mage used to be CL 11 when you could IDi everything. Now identify only reveals runes on weapons and armour. Scrolls, potions, devices etc all have to be IDed by use or by giving them to a shop (assuming non Ironman).

Ingwe Ingweron August 3, 2017 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pondlife (Post 123039)
Does anyone else feel that identify has been nerfed in 4.1.0?

One of the big turning points for a mage used to be CL 11 when you could IDi everything. Now identify only reveals runes on weapons and armour. Scrolls, potions, devices etc all have to be IDed by use or by giving them to a shop (assuming non Ironman).

Yep. It's a feature, not a bug. Not sure I like the balance effect on mages, but overall, I find it a small price to pay for rune-id, which has significantly streamlined play.

petvan August 4, 2017 19:31

So accurate to say there is no way to ID a potion or mushroom w/o consuming it or selling it? Makes it interesting in stat gain as you basically have to eat stuff given the cost of buying it back is too prohibitive.

Identify staves gone?

P

Pondlife August 4, 2017 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by petvan (Post 123069)
So accurate to say there is no way to ID a potion or mushroom w/o consuming it or selling it? Makes it interesting in stat gain as you basically have to eat stuff given the cost of buying it back is too prohibitive.

That's what I've found: devices, mushrooms, potions, scrolls all need to be ID by use or sale.

It's not too bad if you're willing to return to town (although it's a bummer when you give away a valuable item), but it makes ironman mage much harder. The gain one/lose one potions are the worst: I quaffed an unidentified potion of contemplation a couple of days ago and lost a point of int.

Quote:

Identify staves gone?
P
I've certainly not seen any in 4.1. But the effect would be the same as the scroll or the spell anyway even if they existed.

Mondkalb August 5, 2017 12:22

That you can't identify potions and stuff by means of magic bothers me too.
That's a real drawback of the new system.

Staves, wands and scrolls, ok, but potions are really annoying.
I don't bother with mushrooms anymore unless playing a hobbit.

Bostock August 5, 2017 14:09

I gobble everything with gleeful delight and DGAF. Works for me.

Ingwe Ingweron August 5, 2017 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mondkalb (Post 123084)
That you can't identify potions and stuff by means of magic bothers me too.
That's a real drawback of the new system.

Staves, wands and scrolls, ok, but potions are really annoying.
I don't bother with mushrooms anymore unless playing a hobbit.

It used to bother me a lot, but now it is just a minor inconvenience. Like no-selling, it took me awhile to get used to it. Though with no-selling, I find it an unmitigated good, while, as I said, forced use-id for consumables is now just a minor niggle.

Sky August 5, 2017 20:56

the annoying ones are .. oh dear, ill need to make a list.

stat potion of "not my stat"; i.e. contemplation, intellect, depending on what you play

potion of lose memories - actually, just buy a single RLL and thats it.

quaffing, or otherwise wasting your first: heal, *heal, rune of protection.

scrolls of teleport level, unless you have cleared the level and have nothing to lose.
scrolls of deep descent for the same reason.

destruction and *destruction when there might be useful stuff around.

salt water, for trolls. and for rogues who have 50% cast failure on Satisfy Hunger.


i still prefer this new runes model; it makes ID of new but known items much easier and faster and honestly i couldn't go back to the older model.

Pondlife August 6, 2017 19:08

Sky's post pretty much nailed the various annoying factors with the new ID scheme.

I guess it means there's more use for money in the mid game, as I buy up all {unseen} consumable just to ID them.

luneya August 7, 2017 01:01

Yeah, not having the ability to magically id consumables is a little annoying. But at least everything IDs on use now, even if it would otherwise have no effect. Under the old system, early-game object identification was a pain. My game start used to look something like this:
  1. Buy a potion of boldness with starting cash. If none is available in ironman, that's arguably cause for a restart (at least as a warrior or divine caster, who can't just cast identify with mana). If the shops lack boldness in normal play, be sure to return to town to get one before starting to magically id potions, as boldness is a total waste of an identify charge.
  2. Fully clear the first couple DLs before starting to dive, to try to collect and use-ID common consumables.
  3. Test scrolls in the vicinity of an infravision-sensed clear icky thing until detect invisible is learned. (If playing human/dunedan, just buy a detect invisible scroll, as sucessfully use-IDing it requires too much luck.)
  4. Test potions after meleeing some weak poison-dealer (e.g., spiders) until neutralize poison is learned.
  5. Consider buying restore mana in the black market, if available. As a warrior, it saves you the trouble of identifying it with a scroll/staff. As any caster class, buying it is a net gain of two potions (the one that you bought, and the one that you didn't waste in use-ID), which is good, as this is one of the potions that you will want later. But if you haven't bought restore mana yet as a caster, make sure to cast some spell before quaffing any unknown potions, so that restore mana will be identified if that's what your unknown turns out to be.

Now there's no need to worry about any of that. You can just collect stuff, and not worry about how to identify it until your inventory fills up. The +/- stat potions are an acceptable risk, as you'll only suffer the indignity of dinging an important stat for a true dump stat at most twice (e.g., in IDing contemplation and intellect as a warrior). Also, in normal play, you have a pretty good chance of being able to ID things like healing, *healing*, mass banishment, and rune of protection by buying them in the black market before they appear in the dungeon. In ironman, you can't do that, but ironman is supposed to be a challenge, and anyway the benefits of rune ID well outweigh the cost of having to waste the first copies you encounter of each of the high-end consumables.


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