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DavidMedley May 18, 2020 00:25

I don't expect this suggestion to be popular, but I think selling should be on by default. I've gotten a few new players into the game in the last several months and they all ask me about why they can't sell items for more than $0. I don't mind that experienced players think no_sell is the better way to play, but I really don't think it should be the default for people who don't even know how to change the birth options.

Might as well make "show effective speed as a multiplier" default for the same reason.

Nick May 18, 2020 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMedley (Post 145577)
I don't expect this suggestion to be popular, but I think selling should be on by default. I've gotten a few new players into the game in the last several months and they all ask me about why they can't sell items for more than $0. I don't mind that experienced players think no_sell is the better way to play, but I really don't think it should be the default for people who don't even know how to change the birth options.

And once you tell them, then they know :)

Many long-time players (me included) were sceptical about no-selling before it was made the default, and it has been pretty much universally acknowledged that it is a big improvement to gameplay. I think setting it as not the default is sending the wrong signals (especially to new players) as to what is important in the game. There was a period where Angband was derided as the "game of shopping", where a large part of the game consisted of wandering the dungeon slowed to -2 or -3 so you could lug around the latest collection of useless ego weapons to sell in the shops. I'd rather not go back to that.

DavidMedley May 18, 2020 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 145579)
Many long-time players (me included) were sceptical about no-selling before it was made the default.

I know that history, and I'm glad some or most players are enjoying the game more on no-sell. But it's very counter-intuitive. New players are confused by it. Conceding that no-sell is much better, a moderately experienced player can choose it when he discovers birth options.

But another way to go about it would be to have explanatory text somewhere. I can't tell every new player about the rules of no-sell!

Nick May 18, 2020 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMedley (Post 145580)
I know that history, and I'm glad some or most players are enjoying the game more on no-sell. But it's very counter-intuitive. New players are confused by it. Conceding that no-sell is much better, a moderately experienced player can choose it when he discovers birth options.

The problem is, though, that the beginning player has already learned to value getting stuff and selling it, and it's quite addictive - "1500AU for a weapon I would never use - that's great! Next time I'll get 5!". And it gets repeatedly reinforced, so that the player will make inventory decisions which are ultimately bad (being overburdened, leaving too few slots for useful items) because of the drive to bring back more stuff to sell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMedley (Post 145580)
But another way to go about it would be to have explanatory text somewhere. I can't tell every new player about the rules of no-sell!

That's fair - where do you think is the best place to put such an explanation? Players' tendency to read useful explanations varies...

EpicMan May 18, 2020 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 145582)
That's fair - where do you think is the best place to put such an explanation? Players' tendency to read useful explanations varies...

Maybe mention it the first time a player visits a shop, or the first time they sell an item.

DavidMedley May 18, 2020 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicMan (Post 145583)
Maybe mention it the first time a player visits a shop, or the first time they sell an item.

First time they try to sell an item is a very good idea. Like when they press d and before or simultaneous to seeing they're gonna get 0AU for their loot. Much better than their first few turns in the town when there's a lot to take in.

Useful on the first play, but is there a way to make it not annoying on the fifty-first play?

mrfy May 18, 2020 05:48

And point out the benefits of no-selling. Extra $$ on drops and treasure in walls.

spara May 18, 2020 07:55

In my opinion as a game mechanic no-selling is better than selling. Makes the game much more streamlined. However it's quite illogical in a game world where there are shops around and more so in a genre where looting and selling is considered to be a cornerstone of some sort. Is there a reason for balancing the no-selling option by increasing the amount of money found in the dungeon instead of just allowing players to quick sell loot in the dungeon?

PowerWyrm May 18, 2020 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 145579)
And once you tell them, then they know :)

Many long-time players (me included) were sceptical about no-selling before it was made the default, and it has been pretty much universally acknowledged that it is a big improvement to gameplay. I think setting it as not the default is sending the wrong signals (especially to new players) as to what is important in the game. There was a period where Angband was derided as the "game of shopping", where a large part of the game consisted of wandering the dungeon slowed to -2 or -3 so you could lug around the latest collection of useless ego weapons to sell in the shops. I'd rather not go back to that.

We were having a discussion for PWMAngband about no-selling and the amount of cash you get from enhanced coin piles. The result was that a linear distribution was not working at all, as you get way too much money in the beginning by simply wandering the first few levels, getting like 2-3k in seconds, recalling and simply buying everything you need for half the game (almost), and then getting way too few in the endgame to get a couple exceptional items that would show up in the Black Market. Maybe change the formula (plain factor 5) to something more gradual?

Nick May 18, 2020 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm (Post 145589)
We were having a discussion for PWMAngband about no-selling and the amount of cash you get from enhanced coin piles. The result was that a linear distribution was not working at all, as you get way too much money in the beginning by simply wandering the first few levels, getting like 2-3k in seconds, recalling and simply buying everything you need for half the game (almost), and then getting way too few in the endgame to get a couple exceptional items that would show up in the Black Market. Maybe change the formula (plain factor 5) to something more gradual?

Maybe make the multiplier 2 or 3 + (player level / 5)?


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