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CivBesch October 26, 2017 08:27

Yes, I read several times about these necessities.

At the same time I am wondering if it is not an extra challenge.

I actually like it, when this trading can go on, occasionally jumping to town.

I also like the idea of cleaning up the entire level, before going down to the next level. It feels like a defeat if the level has been left without getting a complete victory over the monsters. But I have to admit that I sometimes have no choice than to avoid certain battles or to flee with a word of recall. But then usually I go back to that level and do not go deeper until I have cleaned out the whole level, with sometimes the exception of a small corner I couldn't get to because of a trap which is to dangerous to try and disarm or impossible to circumvent.

What the depth of level is concerned, I realise completely that I should be able to go much deeper, but I am actually not in a hurry to 'finish' the game, even if experts do it in 100.000 turns. I enjoy thoroughly studying and knowing the enemies well.

I was astonished to meet wormtongue 2 days ago on DL 6. My first reaction was to flee immediately, after having read the stories about it, but some careful study, made me use a speed potion and some powerful shots with a powerful sling to overcome him. For me as a newbie that's quite a victory - my first Unique! O, I know, to all those experts around, this probably sounds like beating a fruit bat. ;) But I thoroughly enjoyed it.

I certainly enjoy it playing it in this manner, but the game might not playable this way. Or is there a chance?

The main thing is that I am not in a hurry to win the whole game, but to enjoy challenging small victories, slowly going down.

Does anyone have any experience with the way I am playing it?

I certainly do not want shove aside all the precious advice, by those who have much more experience than I have and certainly hope not to create the impression 'here's a newbie, who knows better than the experienced players.

Pete Mack October 26, 2017 08:35

@CivBesch: there was a classic post on rgra some time back, about what you have to do to win:
1. Kill Sauron
2. Kill Morgoth
3. Don't die
Clearing a level doesn't get you any closer to any of these requirements. Yes, it is possible. But it makes winning much, much less likely. You will get plenty of chances to kill monsters in the game.
As for Wormtongue: he's a good target, with a guaranteed ego item or artifact drop. So yes, he's a useful stepping stone on the way.

Mondkalb October 26, 2017 09:01

Well, it is still a game. If you are enjoying the way you play, then do it that way.
Certainly it is not a bad idea to get to know the monsters (and items, and dungeon layout) better. But this will get boring eventually. You will probably start diving some day, just because you want to see more exciting things.

In general, fast diving is the usual strategy for experienced players, who already know the game with all pitfalls and bounties. They don't want to spend more than the necessary time on "boring" shallow levels.

I have spent many years with a similar gaming strategy. At some point I noticed that I usually died at certain depths, which happened often to boredom or excessive self-confidence.

These are other motives for faster diving:
- avoid unnecessary fights
- avoid staying too long on a level because monsters will awake und eventually new monsters will appear
- deeper down are better items
- deeper monsters grant more experience for killing them and they have better drops
- diving keeps you alert because you are in a potentially more dangerous environment.

CivBesch October 26, 2017 13:27

thanks for all the very valuable advice.

Derakon October 26, 2017 16:47

It's all a question of what your reasons for playing are. Angband gives you the freedom to approach the game however you like. If you're having fun playing the way you are currently playing, then keep playing that way! But if you are bored, then it's your responsibility to change how you play the game (or go play a different game). The advice given on these forums encourages a playstyle that many people find enjoyable. Certainly it seems to consistently produce winners, so if you enjoy winning, then you'd do well to listen to it. But if winning isn't your primary goal, then that advice becomes rather less relevant.

CivBesch October 26, 2017 17:06

That is indeed how I see it.

Winning is indeed my final goal. But the way I play it, I hope it will take a long time. I like epic games that take very long. I am planning over months, not days or weeks.

Of course it means that the game might get boring. If it does I could always speed up things by going deeper sooner. But in the mean time I count on catching up as my level will not be going up so fast, as the monsters are not as 'rewarding' to kill.

Sorry if I give the impression to not be accepting advice. On the contrary, I am very grateful for the advice and take much heed about the stuff I should always have with me:
- curing/healing particularly potions as I am playing a human priest
- phase scroll (if it exist in potions, I would prefer it as protection agains blindness)
- Mace
- some amor

Who knows, in a few weeks, I might be talking very differently and go much faster down.

But at the moment I am enjoying the game very much, having enough 'stress' to handle with the monsters I am now encountering.

Pete Mack October 26, 2017 17:54

It's great that you're having fun now.
Just beware: the odds of getting bored (or making a careless error, or simply getting unlucky) go up with time of play. And if you want to win, eventually you'll need to get past DL 40. *Many* players agree that this is an inflection point, and that play below this level quickly becomes different from play above it.

CivBesch October 26, 2017 18:04

thanks for the hints.

I am now at DL8 clearing the level, not getting bored at the moment.

Pete Mack October 26, 2017 20:55

One last thing: Clearing levels as a priest (or mage) is particularly difficult. They have lousy melee, so you can't just blow through enemies the way you can as a warrior (or paladin, or even rogue.)

Just so you know, it's also fun to see how few enemies you can kill.

kandrc October 26, 2017 22:56


Originally Posted by Pete Mack (Post 125355)
One last thing: Clearing levels as a priest (or mage) is particularly difficult. They have lousy melee, so you can't just blow through enemies the way you can as a warrior (or paladin, or even rogue.)

Just so you know, it's also fun to see how few enemies you can kill.

Not to be contrary, but it's not so hard for a mage. I recently (a year or so ago), for shits and giggles, played a forced-descent, level-clearing mage. I use stone to mud to make 20-long hockey sticks and abuse non-reciprocal line of sight, but in so doing made it to somewhere in the mid-40s. Killed lots of Ds. Killed Kavlax, Lorgan, and a handful of others that I would ordinarily run from until much, much deeper. Pretty sure it was an AMHD that got me, which, frankly, was exactly what I expected to kill me.

Priests can't do it, but the issue is not damage, it's lack of stone to mud. If you skip the forced descent and do levels multiple times, a priest could be successful in the approach, too, but it would be miserably slow. Mage, on the other hand, was actually kind of fun. Of course, I entered into it knowing I would die. If I had any illusion of winning, I'd have been setting myself up for disappointment.

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