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-   -   [Announce] PosChengband 7.0.0 Released (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=8500)

nikheizen September 1, 2017 07:47

Going to comment on my opinion on the 7.0.0 changes since I just finished a character using them here.

(long-ass post ahead)

Poison: I really like the change up that poison got recently. It's now much more of an interesting effect, but still needs significant work.
  • Poison counter is a huge improvement over not knowing how much damage you have stored up.
  • The description of many items which cured poison since it was kind of a default to cure poison need to be changed.
  • Poison damage numbers seem mostly fine, but IMO the counter should tick a LOT faster and at least every game turn if you have a really high poison value (being able to zap _Curing multiple times between ticks is lame and makes poison really weak).

Free Action: I'm not too sure on this one, on the one hand, I never really got paralyzed once I had like 2 pips of FA on my last character- but on the other, I am very sure there were several instances where hitting that 1% or so chance to fail all my good saves would have got me killed. I am fine with instadeath, but only when it comes down to player fault (and not the "you did not unconditionally avoid the monster with the 1/1000 chance of killing you instantly" type of player fault).
However, I like that you have diversified its effects a lot, and now with several FA sources- it just means that paralyzing monsters are more likely to double turn you (which was a thing anyway).
Honestly, overall I think this is a win.

See Invisible: My character had poor searching/perception skills so this may colour my impression somewhat- but please revert or rework this awful change. Permanently invisible enemies have never been interesting in Angband, but making you require telepathy to actually see the dread pack you are fighting is 100% obnoxious. I swear I could only actually see these DL40 monsters 1/20 turns with 2 or 3 sources of SInv because of this low skill score. That doesn't make the skill more interesting to take, since this is really the only use of it after CLvl 15 or so and Telepathy trumps it 100% unless you were somehow fighting a monster named Tik (haha).

New monster abilities: For the most part I love these, the primary exception is the jumping ability on spiders. Possibly consider giving these spiders a jump ability which teleports them *to* the player (placing them in the nearest open cell or failing if you can't place within x cells).
Considerations:
  • Makes them considerably more dangerous to fight in the open.
  • Makes them considerably less obnoxious to fight.
  • Continues to reward killholing (except disintegration spiders- what fun that would be!).
Also the stun effect on ice spiders and stunning auras in general are a bit too spammy for stun effects that aren't attack brands IMO, punishing characters for having lots of attacks makes me sad.

Stun: Speaking of stun, I am actually really happy that it's not the be-all end-all status effect to apply to an enemy, but I still feel it's quite useful against magickers. Thanks for that.

Unlife: I haven't noticed this doing anything at all. Maybe because I've always had plenty of hold life?

Monster/Lazy/Blue Mage Removals: Can you please explain why you did this? It doesn't seem very poschengband (in my own, personal, interpretation of what that means) to remove these bad/difficult achievable things. I understand nuking some of clouded's monster contributions, but stuff like PGR is odd to me.

I haven't really tried anything to do with recall/ID since I like knowing what everything does (thank you for easy lore) and hate ID game in stuff which isn't like Brogue or Sil (thank you for easy ID).

Also, have you considered looking at PosChengband R's "Coffeebreak" mode? It seems like a really fun way to mix up PosChengband, 100% constant looty/killy madness (looty/killy being one of my favourite things about the game after chargen options).

Anyway, the device changes sound like they might actually be worth giving a shot, so if I give 7.0.1 a try, I'll try to give some feedback on that too.

Hope this was helpful, cheers and thanks for the development!

Qyx September 1, 2017 08:42

Possible bug: (not) summoning camelot knights
 
I suppose it's a bug, though it certainly didn't bother me, but twice now in a game, Sir Kay has summoned Camelot Knights, who, unless they're invisible, aren't there. (Or maybe just the failure message is the same as for success?)

wobbly September 1, 2017 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qyx (Post 123612)
I suppose it's a bug, though it certainly didn't bother me, but twice now in a game, Sir Kay has summoned Camelot Knights, who, unless they're invisible, aren't there. (Or maybe just the failure message is the same as for success?)

Think that's a joke feature, like - "the demonite summons Cyberdemons", "the deomonite invokes a Starburst"

Incidently Sir Kay is a different alignment to Camelot Knights. If you leave him alive till you get to Arthur they'll punch on.

wobbly September 1, 2017 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikheizen (Post 123590)
For what purpose was this done.

EDIT:
Okay, I read the commit log and while I agree that _Holiness is too strong for its depth, I still really like it as a staff effect.
I propose you keep it in since it has a great thematic set of effects.
You still have much better effects on staves, such as Genocide, Destruction, Banish, and the Storms.

Regarding the damage: I don't think 100 LOS damage is actually very good at all in PosChengband. Sure, it literally disintegrates hordes of orcs and early hounds, but as soon as I get deep enough to find good stuff like _Holiness or _Dispel Foo, I am probably sitting in an ASC, wailing at one monster a time as much as possible or blink-scumming lone uniques- stuff like that. And once the chaff has more than 400 or so HP, I can't clear them without burning all/most of my charges (though it is very nice to have this utility on a healing item for when a summon roll fills a wide open space with harmless low U/u etc..

I'm also curious about this. Holiness is an interesting mid-level utility device, 3-uses in 1 device. It's hard to argue that the heal or the damage is too strong. You can get much better damage on other device, much better heal. At some pt standing in line of sight of multiple enemies becomes pretty risky.

I'm getting the feeling in all of this that you haven't considered the little guys when trying to balance. I'll use the phase spider as an example as I'm currently playing 1:

How is this meant to do damage in the later stages of the mid-game if you nerf all mid-level devices.
The top-tier devices don't drop till low levels blocked by quests they won't complete without mid-level devices.
They already have to grind a lot, what gain making this super-grind. I don't want to kill 1000 great drakes because my only option has become level up for hps.

Please keep in mind that some characters simply can't get much progress through stages in the game without leaning heavily on devices. Game is meant to be fun, not work.

Fnord September 2, 2017 03:36

I also don't understand the removal of classes, items etc.

And I don't get the point of the reforge nerf. Do Ninjas need to be punished, or monster classes?

It would seem to be much better to actually make all slots similar in potential power, avoiding this issue entirely (though certainly a big change).

Fnord September 2, 2017 04:26

Bug: Displayed damage of one my weapons changes without anything else changing. Hitting C, scrolling, sometimes shows 257, sometimes 260. In town, no buffs, switching back and forth.

nikheizen September 2, 2017 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord (Post 123627)
Bug: Displayed damage of one my weapons changes without anything else changing. Hitting C, scrolling, sometimes shows 257, sometimes 260. In town, no buffs, switching back and forth.

If I recall correctly:
The way the game creates your weapon damage numbers to display to you is by runming a bunch of samples and taking the average damage per round assuming every attack hits.
So it's not a bug, just a peculiar implementation.

Fnord September 2, 2017 05:46

nikheizen: Okay, makes sense.

When was Telepathy nerfed, though? That seems silly, as mid to late game almost everyone has some form of detection, and then it's a matter of mentally tracking what's what.

nikheizen September 2, 2017 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord (Post 123630)
nikheizen: Okay, makes sense.

When was Telepathy nerfed, though? That seems silly, as mid to late game almost everyone has some form of detection, and then it's a matter of mentally tracking what's what.

The telepathy nerf was 7.0.0.

I don't really like it either. It's not because of making telepathy weaker, it's because it just forces you to remember which glyphs the monsters were on when you originally cast/zapped detmons.

IMO if you want to nerf telepathy, Chris, consider making it like DCSS- where monsters show a glyph whose colour is based on their relative difficulty- very easy with monster depths and have uniques multiply the relative monster depth before getting their rating. You could put them on N.

And an alternative if you want to keep the ~tele nerf in: make sense into old ~tele. Showing the exact monster as well as shielded from telepathy monsters (like it did before)- since each sense effect only applies to one monster type at a time.

wobbly September 2, 2017 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord (Post 123625)
I also don't understand the removal of classes, items etc.

And I don't get the point of the reforge nerf. Do Ninjas need to be punished, or monster classes?

It would seem to be much better to actually make all slots similar in potential power, avoiding this issue entirely (though certainly a big change).

My issue with reforging is it was already unclear what the hell was going on. Now I've got zero idea what I'm looking for in a reforge. Also was pretty off-putting to get 2 anti-teleport wizard staves in a row. With Isildur range reforges. This was the last version in the 6 series. I have no idea whether that was bad luck or if there's something out with the numbers.


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