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-   -   How did you die today? (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=8965)

Moving Pictures June 21, 2018 19:33

How did you die today?
 
I haven't seen a thread on failures, much. You know, those spectacular - or mundane - ways of dying.

So what the heck. I'll start.

Elf mage. CL12. Just battled a fighting retreat from a nasty little chamber of black orcs, snagas and lice. Wander over to stairs, read scroll.
It's a teleport scroll. And guess where it lands us? Right in the middle of that chamber. Phase, phase, nope, can't battle out, phase, nope, CCW, phase, nope, CSW, phase, nope, CSW, no scrolls try spell, spell fails, haste, CSW, try phase, still in chamber, rinse, lather, soak in elf blood, end game.

Sphara June 21, 2018 23:39

This one happened few days ago but it was, to put it lightly, a spectacular failure.

HT Warrior with +50 speed beats Sauron dead barely using any healing whatsoever. Ascend down and start waiting for Morgy.
As he appears and gets a little closer, I switch to Morgy-kit which gives me maximum dmg vs. evil something closer to 500/turn. Quick 'C' check. Max damage kit doesn't have ESP or any fire resistance as my switched items had telepathy and fire immunity. Well, I'll work around it.

Beat Morgy to five stars, he summons Tarrasque (you saw earlier, where this was going..). No problem.
Phase door and switch back the fire immunity item.
Ok, nice.
(Morgy comes to LOS, TO him away.
Ok, nice.) EDIT: Slight correction, since this part actually never happened. Maybe I went into a shock and made up this stuff in my head.

http://angband.live/Sphara/angband-f...ctorLewton.txt

Now the Tarrasque's turn to get TO'd.
He appears.
Immediate fire breath. 1600 dmg.

I had switched back the ESP item, not the fire immunity item.
The dumbest dumbass of Dumbtown turned into the pile of ash.

Pete Mack June 21, 2018 23:56

Ooh, lovely death! I did something similar once with Arien. Dying with -1200HP was pretty spectacular.)

Grotug June 22, 2018 03:07

I died to lack of FrAct very late in a game a few weeks ago. I had been checking FrAct periodically in the DL30s, DL40s 50s etc each time I'd rearrange my kit, but must have tried on some new super-duper items very late in the game and totally didn't at all think to check FrAct (usually have multiple sources by late game). Was rather surprising to see the paralyzed status show. Was a very winnable character, too. Felt like a pretty classic YASD.

fizzix June 22, 2018 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Mack (Post 130857)
Ooh, lovely death! I did something similar once with Arien. Dying with -1200HP was pretty spectacular.)

I did the Same with Huan and cold immunity.

Azuria August 15, 2018 12:30

I just died to accidentally walking instead of pressing the direction I wanted to cast a spell in. Trying to wake up a troll to get things to be able to move out of a vault to to, instead walked into LOS of a greater basilisk

Grotug October 7, 2018 01:16

The Greater Basilisk breathes poison. You die.

And I had found Chaos Dragon mail on DL16. I had just transmuted a pukelman into a scroll mimic. :D That was pretty amusing. Oh well, didn't get o find out what the phial was.

Sky October 7, 2018 02:06

I also had a full kit of artifacts *none* of which had Fa and died to a ghoul who could barely hit me.

Sphara October 7, 2018 07:54

Thread like this needs one drolem breath death.

Playing online development branch, attempting artifactless ironman as Gnome Paladin. Somewhere below 50th dungeon level, dark corridor, hear sickening roar, ogres in front of me drop dead and then -360 HP.
So its a classic case. And completely my own fault as I was carrying rPois ring. Just relied on good stealth and two speed rings (+15 combined) even though I knew exactly that drolem was the only thing that could have instashotted me without me noticing it first.

Too bad since just before the death, I found my first detection rod and TO wand.

Pete Mack October 7, 2018 09:18

@Sphara --
Yeah that is bad. But it it also unlucky that a Drolem got you before you got full detection. On the one hand, I have dived a number of times hoping to find Godly Insights before getting one-shotted by a drolem. On the other hand, all those dives were in the 3.0.x era, when detect objects was available via magic devices. That made it much easier to track down the spellbook after reaching DL 50. The usual technique was a combination of +4 stealth defender weapon, elvenkind armor, and a few rods of light to avoid ambushes long hallways.

Grotug October 10, 2018 03:11

Umm... I thought I had one more turn before the Berserker would get me, but he crushed me into a bloody pulp.

grr.. just realized all I had to do was eat one of my mushrooms of hallucination. I hate that I never think to use mushrooms. I never remember to use mushrooms when I have them. This is beyond a stupid death. (my cloak had rChaos).

wobbly October 10, 2018 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grotug (Post 133786)
grr.. just realized all I had to do was eat one of my mushrooms of hallucination. I hate that I never think to use mushrooms. I never remember to use mushrooms when I have them. This is beyond a stupid death. (my cloak had rChaos).

I'd preference a mushroom of emergency myself (particularly since mushrooms of hallucination no longer exist), but hey if you're about to die anyway then what harm in having a little bit of fun 1st.

Grotug October 11, 2018 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by wobbly (Post 133797)
I'd preference a mushroom of emergency myself (particularly since mushrooms of hallucination no longer exist), but hey if you're about to die anyway then what harm in having a little bit of fun 1st.

I meant emergency. I just couldn't think of the name. Mushrooms of hallucination are before my time, methinks.

Grotug October 14, 2018 23:37

I was very confused about how I died. My last messages read:

Something focuses on your mind.
You die.
You are confused!

Which was exactly how I experienced it: I died. I was very confused as to why I died. And then the game aptly let me know that I was confused. Nar the Dwarf mind blasted me I guess.

Sky October 15, 2018 00:32

Can he do that? I dont remember him having any serious ranged attack.

Grotug October 15, 2018 00:58

Oh, he does. If you meet him at the level he is native to and you've been diving, he's gonna getcha. (I was hitting every stair I came to). I thought there was an invisible monster trying to kill me. I shoulda healed instead of detected for invisible.

Pete Mack October 15, 2018 01:36

Yeah, Nar is bad news if you are diving without escapes. Priest can escape with Portal and recall. Arcane casters can avoid him with detection. But for weak-ish warriors and paladins, you are dead without a large stack of phase and CSW at the least.

Gauss October 23, 2018 21:18

Just lost a cl17 high elf paladin to Azog and Bolg. Found them at 850' and thought i could kill them. Azog hits too hard. Tried to phase door but landed in the middle of orcs.

Grotug October 23, 2018 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gauss (Post 133914)
Just lost a cl17 high elf paladin to Azog and Bolg. Found them at 850' and thought i could kill them. Azog hits too hard. Tried to phase door but landed in the middle of orcs.

ahh, classic death. One of my early deaths at a similar depth; I remember how shocked and impressed I was at Azog's fury.

Derakon October 23, 2018 22:12

Azog would be pretty dangerous even if he moved at normal speed. At +10 speed he is just enormously more lethal. This is good in my opinion: it helps teach the player how important speed is, at a point where they hopefully haven't invested too much of their time in the character.

Gauss October 24, 2018 10:35

The funny thing is that i had speed potions. Blessing+speed+berserk and maybe i could have killed him.

Sky October 24, 2018 15:32

Imho all these beginning uniques need to be avoided as they drop better stuff if you wait until a deeper level. Once you start running into Nazguls, you're deep enough to declare open season.


By the way, didnt Nazguls have this annoying tendency to summon each other en masse?
Whatever happened to that ?

Philip October 24, 2018 15:55

Eh, the marginal utility of a guaranteed good object at dlvl 5-20 or so is significantly higher than the marginal utility of a guaranteed of a guaranteed good object at dlvls 30+ IMO. Notably, 5-20 is the only place where good weapons or ammo will be even remotely handy, and even bad egos on armor will still for sure be best in slot.
The marginal utility of guaranteed great objects is tougher to gauge. An early great weapon or launcher can really make your game, and so can some armor egos, but guaranteed great remains pretty good deep into the dungeon. Still, worth killing if you have the opportunity, I think. Depending on jewelry/light generation systems, delaying great drops until after the early drop goods have been killed (kill Bullroarer, Brodda, the early orc uniques before killing Wormy or possibly Smeagol) can be worthwhile to avoid wasting the great drop on the Phial. There was a time when basically any guaranteed good or great drop until the phial was found had a 10% chance to be the Phial.

wobbly October 24, 2018 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 133916)
Azog would be pretty dangerous even if he moved at normal speed. At +10 speed he is just enormously more lethal. This is good in my opinion: it helps teach the player how important speed is, at a point where they hopefully haven't invested too much of their time in the character.

A normal speed Azog would face the same fate any normal speed/no ranged critter faces, phase & scum. Past a certain pt a melee enemy has to be back in your face pretty quickly if you phase otherwise you can just pepper them to death. You can still do it to Azog with enough patience, it'd just be a lot of consumables wasted on something that can be more easily killed later.

Grotug October 24, 2018 22:13

I haven't died today (yet) but came frighteningly close to meeting my maker by the mandibles of an killer iridescent beetle just now. 13 levels ago I had replaced FrAct boots with +10 speed boots I found on DL24 alongside a rod of restoration. But was wearing a +08 dam ring instead of the FrAct ring I recently purchased when the beetle surprised me with its paralyzing bites.

https://youtu.be/nJzcOcV5-GA

Pete Mack October 25, 2018 02:38

Yes, doing something dumb without free action is a classic way to die.

http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showpos...47&postcount=3

Grotug November 4, 2018 01:07

Gah, just one more reason HT warrior is the no brainer combo. These fragile combos get tiresome 40 levels in..

Look at all these nexus hounds. There are probably inertia hounds or even plasma hounds elsewhere on this level, too, given that there are 3 vaults. Let's read the ?banishment. Goodbye hounds! Goodbye health! Hello tombstone!

Narry November 16, 2018 20:27

The Tarrasque. Need I say more?

I was actually doing quite well, had all resistances plus fire and acid immunity, base speed +25. A few healing potions and means to teleport other and myself too, so I thought I'd give it a try. After teleporting myself, I found myself in a room with a frog (R). I teleported it away and wanted to rest until healed... I thought Tarrasque was still far away when I had about 400 HP, two R's on the map. I didn't realise Tar was the nearer one... I'm pretty sure it breathed cold although that possibility isn't displayed on my monster info at the moment... anyways, that did about 500 damage which was enough to kill me.

I've been swearing for revenge for an hour now...

Derakon November 16, 2018 20:38

The Tarrasque can breathe fire, cold, and disenchantment, yeah. With only a source of permanent resistance, you can take up to 533 damage from the first two. If you add a source of temporary resistance you can get that down to 177.

The Tarrasque is very rarely worth fighting. You pretty much have to either be a priest (unlimited cheap, big heals), or have fire/cold immunity, or have a lot of healing potions that you're willing to lose. Even then the fight is not trivial.

Narry November 16, 2018 20:46

Well, getting revenge is worth it. ;)

Next time, I'll prepare myself better... thanks for the warning though, but I have an immense desire to kill Tar now. :)

Pete Mack November 16, 2018 21:14

The Tarrasque does just massive damage and has tons of HP. Unless you have dual immunity, it will destroy so much stuff in your pack that killing it will leave you significantly worse off. When breath attenuation was too forgiving, I sometimes killed it as a High Elf mage with nether bolt. Make long tunnels with stone to mud and digging, then plink it from far away, when it gets close teleport and repeat. But that was because
* it was doing much less damage
* High elf mage is desperate for EXP.

Narry November 16, 2018 21:22

I see... let's suppose I play a hobbit warrior. The Tarrasque counts as animal, right? So, with dual immunity and a superb weapon with *Slay* Animal I might get the revenge?

Pete Mack November 16, 2018 21:38

*Slay* animal and *slay* evil still only don2x base damage. The Tarrasque is vulnerable to acid, electricity, and poison--these are all good choices. But it is so not worth fighting it unless you have immunities.

Your best shot is as a CL 40+ ranger with venom brand ammo.

Narry November 16, 2018 21:42

OK. Thanks for the advice.

Gauss November 18, 2018 09:41

So the best advice if we find the terrasque is run right?
I should only fight him if i have huge fire resistance.

fph November 18, 2018 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gauss (Post 134364)
So the best advice if we find the terrasque is run right?
I should only fight him if i have huge fire resistance.

Yup, correct, but "huge fire resistance" is a weird way to word it given how resistances work in vanilla Angband. Basically, there's three types of resistance:

* permanent fire resistance from equipment: divides the damage by 3. Having more than one is the same as having one.
* temporary fire resistance from spells / activations: divides the damage by another 3. Stacks with permanent resistance, but again, having more than one is the same as having one.
* immunity from equipment: reduces the damage to zero.

Also, keep in mind that mr. T can breathe also cold, and disenchantment for max ca. 600 damage IIRC. You should have those resisted as well. And it breathes pretty damn often.

Pete Mack November 18, 2018 21:25

Disenchantment max damage is 500, or 428 with resistance (which you definitely need when fighting the big R.) And yes, you will want both immunities.

Grotug November 20, 2018 10:59

Grrr!! I love how bad luck just all comes at once. Two drolems? really? That's not how I died. The master mystic summoned at least three 11-headed hydras. I had him fleeing, one purple asterisk of health left, and he somehow found the time and energy to heal? There was no heavy stun. It went from stun to knocked out. Grrrr. I was making good turncount, too. I killed Itanagast but died to a master mystic. :eek:

I had found a ring of extra attacks, too.

https://youtu.be/YKagcS3TDD0

Pete Mack November 20, 2018 11:10

Unless you are at speed +20, GMM can take you from stunned to knocked out in a single player turn. At normal speed, he can knock you out in a single turn. Very bad news..

Grotug November 20, 2018 13:50

He wasn't a grandmaster (only a master).

Narry November 23, 2018 22:08

I got my revenge!

My Hobbit Warrior killed The Tarrasque.
Dual (well, actually quadruple) immunity, a decent weapon and more than 10 potions was enough. The b**tard didn't drop anything useful though, but I'm super glad I got him.

Sauron and Morgoth soon I hope...

Ugramoth November 24, 2018 03:51

OK, I'm probably going to die soon:
I tried to disarm a chest with multiple traps. Something went off and it summoned:
The Mouth of Sauron
Baphomet
Radagast
Tselakus
The Cat Lord
Polyphemus
Osse

I'll teleport now and the will try to split the group with TO's and kill them one by one. Level 45 high elf priest, speed +32, stats maxed, all resistances except stun (available with swap) , fire, cold, acid immunities, all spellbooks except Wrath, 592 hits (705 if I swap high dam weapon to +CON weapon). Anybody want to make bets?

Grotug November 24, 2018 17:38

The stairs?

There will always be more vaults and chests and goodies elsewhere. And a continued future exploring Angband is better than an early tombstone!

Ugramoth November 27, 2018 02:38

Actually managed to kill them all +few other that Tselakus invited. Now level 50 on DL96, and still no Wrath of God. Has it been removed from the game? Found every other dungeon spellbook about 20 times each already...

Narry November 27, 2018 06:42

They're still in the game. I found a few copies on my Warrior winner.

AndyS December 1, 2018 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugramoth (Post 134488)
OK, I'm probably going to die soon:
I tried to disarm a chest with multiple traps. Something went off and it summoned:
The Mouth of Sauron
Baphomet
Radagast
Tselakus
The Cat Lord
Polyphemus
Osse

I just did the same thing a few seconds ago (havent even teleported yet) and welcomed the Tarrasque, Vecna, Gothmog, Waldern, and Beorn. The last 2 have no business still being alive but those first 3 man Im not even going to look at a chest for the rest of this game. Thank god (well the developer anyway) you get a turn after that. And that Im not relying on a staff. Id try it with my eyes closed forsure. Level feeling on this floor was only 4, it's feeling a whole lot more dangerous now.

Grotug December 2, 2018 00:54

My Dwarf Priest died unceremoniously when I forgot that the amulet I had been wearing provided free action. I sauntered right up to the carrion crawlers and scratched my head when a paralysis message showed. Oh yeah, that other amulet was my only source of FrAct. Woops! I did nearly die shortly before that triggering a bunch of dangerous uniques from a chest as well. ;)

I'm playing hobbit ranger again. I'm hoping for some off-bow extra shots this run. :D

Narry December 3, 2018 20:46

I was doing quite well with my Elven Ranger, got a few rings of speed and almost all resistances, but then... Kavlax and gravity hounds.

Grotug December 3, 2018 21:02

I didn't take the Winged Horror seriously and he breathed poison after my recently acquired spell of TO failed.

Gauss December 3, 2018 21:59

Don't laugh at me but i died of starvation. Was too distracted to see the message and
then it was too late.
Felt so stupid

Grotug December 5, 2018 11:16

I got flattened by Fundin Blue Cloak on DL26. And the stupid thing was that I had a scroll of teleportation but I stupidly went for my staff of teleportation. Why? Why can't I not be so dumb? -2 INT is why. To be honest I thought I might survive a round of his fury, but usually the staff does its job. :D

Before that a Ranger went berserk on me, despite my being far superior to him. The video time stamp is shortly before my demise demonstrating the useful damage from a ring of the mouse:

https://youtu.be/TBAd1sTdYQ4#t=8m20s

Ugramoth December 13, 2018 05:46

Level 50 High-Elf priest had an unfortunate accident involving plasma hounds, lack of stun resistance, arrogance and Sauron...

Sky December 13, 2018 11:28

I think we ALL have lost a CL50 to plasma hounds.

AndyS December 13, 2018 22:46

I'm sure this is a common death, the more interesting thing about the game was my first drop. The death was to an ethereal dragon. I was more powerful but no confusion resistance and he was in a wall, all I could do was watch helplessly as he confused me each turn. I dont remember what level I was on but I was pretty happy with the gear and stats. Before I went into my first store even I killed Farmer Maggot and got a trident of extra attacks. That seemed to me a remarkable head start for a warrior, what a waste.

Flip ahead to the game I'm playing now. I know it's random but things sure seem to level out. Slim, slim pickings. I made use of some DD scrolls on later levels and got down to level 58 or 59 really fast. I have good resistances but thats it.

Still using Narthanc (!). My other artifacts are nothing to jump up and down about right now either - Himring, galadriel, holhenneth, and cammithrim. I have to wear a lightning ring still to cover that, I alternate it with a damage ring but it's only a matter of time until i forget to swap and get fried. CL 31, con 16, dex and strength still low 18s. No esp. Not one speed boost. Ive only killed the early nuisance uniques and the orc/troll/ogre types. So each time i flee and dive back there seem to be several who can wipe me out easily without me hardly scratching them. It was pointless to keep going back to that level and slinking around a few corners trying to find something useful. Gives me a better appreciation of how difficult ironman must be, because Im massively overpowered by nearly everything and teleporting is dangerous with several uniques and other nasties on each floor. It would take more than 1 or 2 drops to survive for long, I was lucky this far.

As much as I hated doing it, I put my tail between my legs and took the down staircase from town to take my chances with the rock lizards and cave spiders. I found an unidentified potion on level 1 or 2 and drank it and was amazed when it was a potion of speed. I was shocked that I hadnt picked one up by the depth I was at, and if I had seen one in town I hadnt noticed but I dont think so. Evil, evil game.

So down I go again, zap mapping, take stairs, repeat, repeat. I expect this death will go something like "it breathes, you die".

AndyS December 13, 2018 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky (Post 134859)
I think we ALL have lost a CL50 to plasma hounds.

I wasnt level 50 but I shared Ugramoth's arrogance. I actually went out of my way to fight a pack of them one game. I thought fire resistance had me covered and learned a lesson about stunning in very short order. Im not positive, it was several games ago, but I think I even had stun resistance, is that possible?

petvan December 14, 2018 01:30

First time back in a bit and finally (I think) got the message about diving, stair scumming, and picking battles vs my old style of clearing levels.

Rogue was doing great and really, stronger than I thought as I dodged a lot of fights for awhile.

Died I think stupidly. Level was spiraling out of control, recall was cast and coming, supplies where low but one *healing left and I was just trying to TP to a safe spot to wait the recall out but RNG kept sticking me in active rooms with breathers and guys inviting friends.

Went to the TP staff which I usually don't use and probably hit it vs the *heal and died. Not sure the Heal was saving me as the room was full of breathers.

Learned a lot though. Think I dove somewhat fast.. Probably I didn't.

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=22154

P

AndyS December 14, 2018 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by petvan (Post 134883)


Went to the TP staff which I usually don't use and probably hit it vs the *heal and died. Not sure the Heal was saving me as the room was full of breathers.


http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=22154

P


Unless the recall was coming within a turn or two you probably would have had to try the staff after healing anyway if the room was full of breathers. I dont think it was a bad decision, just bad luck. I likely would have done the same. Of course, Ive never won ;)

Grotug December 14, 2018 14:59

@petvan Wearing the gloves of combat probably not worth the aggravation. Generally those gloves are reserved for the final fight if you need to get your damage up and haven't found other high damage gloves, or you are already wearing a super-powerful item that aggravates, in which case you might as well wear the gloves of combat.

&;&;&;&;&

After picking up a short bow of power I started diving more aggressively using the find stairs spell. Through magical means I learned of some fire hounds nearby so I was gonna leave the area, but decided I'd try to grab my arrow in the hallway they were about to come up and they breathed on me. I retreated around the corner with still 27 health or something and decided it was time to quaff one of the 5 potions I picked up on DL14 and had inscribed with "curing potions". I mean, what else could they be at that depth? I drank and found myself moving slower and somehow didn't die. So I drank a cure light wound potion and died the next turn. <YASD>

Sphara December 14, 2018 18:45

"Died" to a bug in angband.live, playing master branch :D

Chose unrandarts game from birth option but the first artifact I found was a pretty nice Bastard Sword randart. I dunno why it was generated.

Saved the game and returned after a brief break. Save file was corrupted because of that randart. "Couldn't find artifact of Iatan! Error reading item. Savefile corrupted - Couldn't load block gear"

Was such a nice sword! :D

I should probably report this but who am I reporting this kind of problem to? Nick or gwarl?

Anyways, the savefile is still there.

Nick December 14, 2018 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sphara (Post 134892)
I should probably report this but who am I reporting this kind of problem to? Nick or gwarl?

Clearly Gwarl ;)

petvan December 15, 2018 04:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grotug (Post 134888)
@petvan Wearing the gloves of combat probably not worth the aggravation. Generally those gloves are reserved for the final fight if you need to get your damage up and haven't found other high damage gloves, or you are already wearing a super-powerful item that aggravates, in which case you might as well wear the gloves of combat.

&;&;&;&;&

After picking up a short bow of power I started diving more aggressively using the find stairs spell. Through magical means I learned of some fire hounds nearby so I was gonna leave the area, but decided I'd try to grab my arrow in the hallway they were about to come up and they breathed on me. I retreated around the corner with still 27 health or something and decided it was time to quaff one of the 5 potions I picked up on DL14 and had inscribed with "curing potions". I mean, what else could they be at that depth? I drank and found myself moving slower and somehow didn't die. So I drank a cure light wound potion and died the next turn. <YASD>

OMG.. totally missed the gloves had aggro!!!! Wondered wtf happened to my stealth and if it was just being really deep... no wonder it got harder! Had no gloves for ages and was just excited to see those.. only now noticing the aggro since you pointed it out.. meh.. YASD prob!

Pete Mack December 15, 2018 06:45

Petvan
While the gloves did indeed cause the level to spiral out of control, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with using them. However, there were other problems with that character:
1. Allowed more than 2 powerful monsters into LOS
2. Had terrible HP, wearing Ring of Strength instead of Ring of Constitution(???? Why?)
3. Relying on staff of Teleportation at depth 96. Use scrolls in desperate stands like that one. Teleportation is pretty dangerous in any case at that depth. Teleport level and destruction are far more reliable.

AndyS December 15, 2018 23:06

Yes Ive learned to love those teleport level scrolls. Reminds me of a question I had about them and I dont want to open a new thread just for that as Im sure it's been asked but I cant find it.
What happens if you try to use one on 99 and you havent defeated Sauron?

edit changed 98 to 99, wasnt thinking straight

Derakon December 16, 2018 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyS (Post 134905)
Yes Ive learned to love those teleport level scrolls. Reminds me of a question I had about them and I dont want to open a new thread just for that as Im sure it's been asked but I cant find it.
What happens if you try to use one on 98 and you havent defeated Sauron?

The game is smart enough to make sure you can't go deeper than level 99 without killing Sauron, or deeper than level 100 without killing Morgoth. If you try to teleport level past them, you'll go up instead. If you have forced-descent turned on then you just can't teleport level, instead.

AndyS December 16, 2018 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 134906)
The game is smart enough to make sure you can't go deeper than level 99 without killing Sauron, or deeper than level 100 without killing Morgoth. If you try to teleport level past them, you'll go up instead. If you have forced-descent turned on then you just can't teleport level, instead.

Didn't think it would let you past, you guys are smarter than that. Just wondered what actually happens, cheers. Havent tried forced descent yet, I think ill turn that on next game. And maybe randarts Im still not een sure what they are but there is plenty of info, Ill read it first. I think I can win the game Im playing but Ive been wrong every other time Ive thought that.

I still have a character in another game parked on 99 but got tired of scumming that level for a weapon that would give me a chance. And was too chicken to try with what I had, it being the first time Id beaten Sauron or even approaching that depth. Felt it would not have been as satisfying to win my first game by just staying on 99 forever until i got the right drop. This is the first time Ive ever had Nenya so thats been a big help. Not to mention 5 TO rods, having 5 of those almost seems like it would require incompetence to die, at least so far, not on 100. Im at 82 and just going to make do with what I have or collect from here, grow a pair and take the plunge. I found Sauron a piece of cake last time, I may have been lucky with his attacks. But the few rounds i tried with Morgoth were futile, would have been sure death.

But this thread isnt about how we survive (sorry) but how we die. I'll post that here if I lose and figure out the ladder if I win.

Grotug December 16, 2018 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyS (Post 134907)
[snip]

Not to mention 5 TO rods, having 5 of those almost seems like it would require incompetence to die,

[/snip

Not incompetence, but the seemingly surprising confluence of several undesired events: TO fails three to five times in a row; during which time you fail to notice your speed wears off, during which time Huan and Ancalagan the Black get summoned. At which time, you make another post in here. I don't make this stuff up. It always amazes me how I can have such a nice string of superb luck, where TO always works, where monsters don't breathe, where ?phase lands me favorably, and then, without warning, without any indication things are about to go south real fast, the RNG suddenly flips a switch, the bottom drops out, and the dungeon turns against me faster than I can say what in the bleedin' walls just happened?

No mistake, you are correct in realizing just how powerful 5 rods of TO is. Of all the objects in your inventory, it's probably the most important one, especially when it reaches 4 or 5 in number. But bad luck has an uncanny way of sneaking up on you when you least expect it and killing off insanely powerful characters. It's almost as if the dungeon knows to just keep making things go your way until it senses your guard is down, your confidence is overbubbling, and then, without warning, the rebalancing of the RNG unloads all at once, with such swift and unforgiving suddenness, in a single, malevolent strike, a perfect storm of simultaneous, unfavorable events that instantly brings the RNG back to equilibrium, and instantly renders another promising @ dead.

Which brings up another lesson in Angband, especially if you are crash diving: if you keep encountering lousy levels, and are not getting the things you need for the depth you're at; don't give up, don't lose heart. The RNG has something special for you if you can just hold on a little longer!

AndyS January 24, 2019 22:56

Not a particularly interesting death, not a particularly bright one either. Frustrating? Oh yeah.

My first try at ironman. Was cruising along nicely though very uneventful game to that point. Only uniques fang grip wormtongue and the easy kobold one. I dont think I had even used a phase door or a clw yet, maybe one or two of the latter I forget. But I was building a nice pile of cure potions. No artifacts. A nice bow of extra might which was pretty lethal on early monsters. It had a poison curse that I wouldnt even call an annoyance, also agg but didnt care about that either. No powerful weapon but a whip of venom that was doing the trick to that point. All basic resistances except poison. Had FA.

I read 2 deep descents to DL26. I was fighting a mob of uruks and wolves and a werewolf and I hink a wolf cieftain but had no fear of death. I figured when i got to 50 hp id blink and burn out my CLW staff and chuck it, then finish them off with perhaps another blink and !clw or two. I read it, "you can not teleport". Damn you ring of the dog. I dont think I had ever worn one in a regular game but I found the fear resist comforting. Comforted me right to my grave. I had FA so it couldnt have been paralysis but must have been heavy stun or something because I got hit about 6 times in a row game over. I'll deal with the fear from now on, Im too forgetful with swapping.

Sphara January 25, 2019 04:15

@AndyS

Props for not taking the easy way making your first ironman attempt but I think you're making things just too hard for yourself. Reading two deep descents is justifiable even though it adds the difficulty. But aggro item... In ironman, bad stealth is one thing, wielding aggro all the time is just total hardcore. A nightmare version of an already tough challenge.

AndyS January 25, 2019 05:26

Hey thanks Sphara, advice appreciated and will be heeded for my next try for sure:) I'm never putting that ring on again. I managed fine without it in regular play, and early ironman isnt a lot different except for the planning I dont think.

I think the aggravation from the bow was worth it because I only wielded it when I was in a fight and it was a very powerful early weapon. But not the ring, that was dumb.
.
What I love about this game is after the disappointment there is sometimes a reflex tendency to think oh geez, I blew it, Ill never get those favourable drops or circumstances again. But you do. I just started playing again a few months ago and a couple of times I blew really good characters with rare finds at the end. Then I read a couple of posts by i think grotug and wobbly about the rng giving back which were encouraging. All about patience.

Anyway this wasnt one of those games, i was a long long way from even being in the money and didnt have anything significant. Just a fun first try :) cheers

Sphara January 25, 2019 06:01

@AndyS

Most of my ironman wins are kinda wimp versions because I usually play with 'know all flavors from start' as a birth option. It does not make the game that much easier, just reduces the annoyance of having to consume a harmful or preservable items once without any intention.

Diving paying off works exactly the same way as with recall. The danger there is just the shortage of healing items in the endgame fights. Especially when diving very aggressively. I've died twice in the endgame (once to Sauron, once to Morgoth) because of that.

Btw, I did do one win with not knowing flavors. In that game I stupidly ate an unknown mushroom from the floor while clearing a greater vault. Was a mushroom of purging. That caused some trouble because I never carry any food after like D40. Drank lotsa potions for nutrition before finding something edible or sh-scroll :D

EDIT: Oh and commenting on your ironman attempt single-handedly promoted me from 'Apprentice' to 'Adept' status. So it probably was a good advice. Ha ha! :D

AndyS January 25, 2019 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sphara (Post 135587)
@AndyS

Most of my ironman wins are kinda wimp versions because I usually play with 'know all flavors from start' as a birth option. It does not make the game that much easier, just reduces the annoyance of having to consume a harmful or preservable items once without any intention.

Diving paying off works exactly the same way as with recall. The danger there is just the shortage of healing items in the endgame fights. Especially when diving very aggressively. I've died twice in the endgame (once to Sauron, once to Morgoth) because of that.

Btw, I did do one win with not knowing flavors. In that game I stupidly ate an unknown mushroom from the floor while clearing a greater vault. Was a mushroom of purging. That caused some trouble because I never carry any food after like D40. Drank lotsa potions for nutrition before finding something edible or sh-scroll :D

EDIT: Oh and commenting on your ironman attempt single-handedly promoted me from 'Apprentice' to 'Adept' status. So it probably was a good advice. Ha ha! :D


I think it was good advice regardless of your status :)

I also think if you won an ironman game, the word wimp definitely does not apply. But what exactly does "know all flavours" mean? I realize I should know this but i don't. Does it mean your items are identified? That would be a tremendous advantage. I was always hauling around stuff "just in case".

I think after Ive identfied free action and poison I will drop unidentified weapons unless I have identify or free slots which are scarce in ironman. When all is said and done you usually go with an artifact weapon anyway , at least as a warrior.

Keep in mind that I'm keenly aware of my lack of expertise and probably talking out of the wrong end :)

Sphara January 25, 2019 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyS (Post 135588)
I..what exactly does "know all flavours" mean? I realize I should know this but i don't. Does it mean your items are identified? That would be a tremendous advantage

You can set "know all flavors" from birth options just like you do disable word-of-recall etc.

Playing item flavors known means that potions, scrolls, wands, all the consumables are pre-identified. Only thing not id'd, are the power values the item holds. If you quaff enlightenment and see a ring of speed somewhere on the floor, you know it's Speed but you don't know how big it's enchantment is until you do step on the ring. So playing with this on, you are not forced to drink that Potion of Intellect once in a game when playing a warrior.

Rune flavors I keep hidden from the start. Those mean the powers the item holds. Resistances, buffs, curses, slaying powers etc. Those need to be identified once with a scroll of identify.

One example: Playing rune knowledge off and flavor knowledge on results you finding Ring of Resist Fire and Cold. You KNOW you have both of those resistances because it does not appear as "Lapis Lazuli Ring" or whatever, but your character sheet doesn't show it until the rune is identified via usage or id-scroll :)

Grotug February 9, 2019 22:55

Tried to fight too many spiders of gorgoroth at once. BTW, I'm pretty sure the XP they grant is too high (45k vs 9600 for a lesser titan).

bendb April 21, 2019 18:27

One-shotted by a Dracolisk breathing nexus... right after I'd swapped by boots of stability for boots of speed and given up my only source of nexus resistance. Dumb! Had some quality gear, too: http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=22470


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