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Sideways September 6, 2020 04:52

I'm not entirely happy with the current situation, but I'm not sure basing Crafting off the item's original generation level would be an improvement or more intuitive, as the generation level has no other effects post-generation. (Basing it off the item kind's native level would also be non-ideal.)

Possible new approaches I would consider are 1) for Crafting scrolls to have a regular, flat power like scrolls of Fire, Ice, Genocide etc. do; or 2) for Crafting to give better results deeper in the dungeon like Acquirement does. The latter would be extremely easy to code, though I'm not sure I like that approach personally; it's still the same scroll, the same base item and the same player wherever the process happens.

From the perspective of a Craft caster using Crafting as a spell, it makes perfect sense that the spell's power scales up with CL the same way as other Craft enchantment spells; and I think the reason scrolls also use the player's level is so the spell and the scroll can share the same code more comfortably, but it shouldn't be very hard to separate the two.

Susramanian September 6, 2020 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sideways (Post 148179)
Possible new approaches I would consider are 1) for Crafting scrolls to have a regular, flat power like scrolls of Fire, Ice, Genocide etc. do; or 2) for Crafting to give better results deeper in the dungeon like Acquirement does. The latter would be extremely easy to code, though I'm not sure I like that approach personally; it's still the same scroll, the same base item and the same player wherever the process happens.

I'd be happy with either of those, as long as there's potential for exciting end-game crafting with them! For example, when I finally beat the serpent and start poking around Heaven, I'd like it to be possible for my accumulated crafting scrolls to at least give me a chance of boots of Feanor or a Wild weapon.

I agree that option two is awkward; it would encourage weird or annoying play. But it would be an improvement on the current situation, so I'd be happy with it :)

A couple more options, just for fun:

3) Make Crafting still based off the player's level, but apply a multiplier to map the 1 to 50 player level range to the 1 to 127 item level range. So player level * 2.54 gives the power of the crafting scroll. Still weird to go plugging in the player's level into an equation that has nothing to do with player level, but at least the range of inputs would match.

4) Base it off fame somehow. For example, the player's max reforge power divided by 1000, capped at 127. That would get the job done, but its linearity might produce too-weak results for much of the game. Something logarithmic could fix that, like 10*ln(x/1000+1) + x / 2000, where x is the player's max reforge power.

GrimaTheBold September 6, 2020 18:02

Hi, can you tell me more about Hide in Shadows? First time I've found the 4th Rogue spellbook so I feel like a kid in a candy shop.

When I cast it, my Stealth score doesn't increase, so I assume it isn't as simple as just increasing stealth. When cast, I get periodic messages "you are hiding i n shadows" or "You are mantled in shadow from ordinary eyes!" but I don't understand what I'm actually gaining from that or how to make best use of it.

One more general question: for mid- to late game, how do you balance your build for stealth vs. offense? I'm CL 44, down to DL 59 (coffee-break). I just found Yositsune and finally swapped it in for Hithloemir which I'd worn a long time. For the time time in ages, my stealth dropped below Amber down to Heroic (though its back to Amber[25] when I cast Tread Softly). Is that below ideal? I'm getting over 730 HP damage (770 vs. evil) per turn (Sting/Careth, ring of combat, Cambeleg, Boromir, etc), both STR & DEX 18/**) - would it be better to give up some damage output to get base stealth back in to Amber.

Sideways September 6, 2020 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimaTheBold (Post 148186)
Hi, can you tell me more about Hide in Shadows? First time I've found the 4th Rogue spellbook so I feel like a kid in a candy shop.

When I cast it, my Stealth score doesn't increase, so I assume it isn't as simple as just increasing stealth. When cast, I get periodic messages "you are hiding i n shadows" or "You are mantled in shadow from ordinary eyes!" but I don't understand what I'm actually gaining from that or how to make best use of it.

I think it's like the ninja thing where monsters have a hard time perceiving you even if they're nearby and awake; in theory you could walk through a room full of awake monsters without being noticed, though in practice someone will likely spot you at some point. You also qualify for extra-strong criticals when you hit a monster from the shadows (though rogue crits are not quite as good as ninja crits).

Quote:

One more general question: for mid- to late game, how do you balance your build for stealth vs. offense? I'm CL 44, down to DL 59 (coffee-break). I just found Yositsune and finally swapped it in for Hithloemir which I'd worn a long time. For the time time in ages, my stealth dropped below Amber down to Heroic (though its back to Amber[25] when I cast Tread Softly). Is that below ideal? I'm getting over 730 HP damage (770 vs. evil) per turn (Sting/Careth, ring of combat, Cambeleg, Boromir, etc), both STR & DEX 18/**) - would it be better to give up some damage output to get base stealth back in to Amber.
On the face of it, those sound like the kind of numbers you don't have bad options with; though the raw damage number might be somewhat misleading since dual-wielding likely means somewhat lower accuracy than normal. But I doubt you need either more stealth or more offense; just make sure you have enough resists and speed and HP to avoid inconvenient deaths.

CyclopsSlayer September 6, 2020 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimaTheBold (Post 148186)
Hi, can you tell me more about Hide in Shadows? First time I've found the 4th Rogue spellbook so I feel like a kid in a candy shop.

When I cast it, my Stealth score doesn't increase, so I assume it isn't as simple as just increasing stealth. When cast, I get periodic messages "you are hiding i n shadows" or "You are mantled in shadow from ordinary eyes!" but I don't understand what I'm actually gaining from that or how to make best use of it.

I wonder if that is similar to the Ninja 'Hide' innate, do you see a message at the bottom of your screen that says 'Hiding'? Those messages are the same that a Ninja gets.
It might not be as any source of light you carry prevents hiding as a Ninja unless you have items granting darkness. Sting grants light, and so do far too many egos and artifacts, grrr. :)

Try taking off any light and stand in a darkened area and see what happens IF you cast See in Dark first.

Thraalbee September 8, 2020 12:55

I am trying possessor for the first time. When inspecting an Anti-paladin corpse, the score says L22 but when I try to possess the body it says I need L33 and I can only do L25 now. Is this a bug or is it just me not understanding the mechanisms for this? Also, the csv-file for monster bodies doesn't help as much as I had hoped.

Thraalbee September 8, 2020 18:17

Crash bug (hang)
 
Possessing Mordred. Trying with dual Shields. First melee attack freezes the game. Reproducable

Sideways September 8, 2020 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thraalbee (Post 148227)
I am trying possessor for the first time. When inspecting an Anti-paladin corpse, the score says L22 but when I try to possess the body it says I need L33 and I can only do L25 now. Is this a bug or is it just me not understanding the mechanisms for this? Also, the csv-file for monster bodies doesn't help as much as I had hoped.

I suspect the "L22" you're looking at just indicates the object level the corpse dropped at (which will likely be the same as the dungeon level), and has nothing to do with Possessors.

Quote:

Possessing Mordred. Trying with dual Shields. First melee attack freezes the game.
Thanks, will look into it.

CyclopsSlayer September 13, 2020 17:45

Just started a new Ninja, the Thieves' Hideout reward first gave me a smile and then made me want to cry. Too damned many egos give light...

-Dagger (Armageddon) (3D6) (+7,+9) {Lu|FS}

So, now the option is to give up stealth or sell it... /sigh

edit: and now the Robe Keeper of Darkness [2,+14] with its Aura of fire light that persists even after I took it off lol

Thraalbee September 13, 2020 22:26

This one might be of help. Never saw that before.
Code:

The Midnight Dragon Scale Mail (+4,+4) [40,+20] {AcDk;Ds|A A:Breathe Acid}
It has zero weight!


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