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-   -   HURT_FIRE and HURT_COLD (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=4623)

CunningGabe June 29, 2011 23:29

HURT_FIRE and HURT_COLD
 
I've been meaning for a while to go through and add HURT_FIRE and HURT_COLD to some monsters. There was some earlier discussion here. I'm trying to be a little stingy with it, because I don't want to make a whole bunch of monsters much easier. Here is what I am planning so far:

Add HURT_FIRE to:
* All molds except the red mold.
* All mushrooms.
* All skeletons except Cantoras. (Edit: removed per suggestions)
* All vampires (except uniques?) (Edit: added)
* All zombies/mummies.
* Cold elementals, vortices, and zephyr hounds.
* Scroll mimics.

Add HURT_COLD to:
* All jellies that aren't currently immune to cold.
* Fire elementals, vortices, and zephyr hounds. (But not plasma ones).
* Potion mimics.
* All reptiles, except Tarrasque (Edit: added)
* All snakes (Edit: added)
* All nagas (Edit2: added)
* All hydras (Edit2: added)

A few notes on things I willfully left out. I think it is best if we don't give HURT_FIRE to every cold-aligned monster (such as dragons) unless that monster is elemental, to keep dragons and wyrms threatening. Similarly, I opted against giving HURT_FIRE to vampires, even though they are corporeal undead, to help distinguish them from skeletons and zombies.

I'm not really satisfied with the number of monsters receiving HURT_COLD compared to HURT_FIRE. There are more creatures with IM_COLD than IM_FIRE (many of them undead), so cold is already less useful than fire. It would be nice to come up with other sensible monsters to give HURT_COLD to, to help even the balance. Alternatively (or additionally), we could decide not to give HURT_FIRE to undead, in which case the balance is not too bad.

Any comments on what I propose above and any additional thoughts/ideas are welcome!

d_m June 29, 2011 23:34

Maybe some of the reptiles should get HURT_COLD?

Derakon June 29, 2011 23:37

Skeletons shouldn't get HURT_FIRE since bones do a pretty good job of surviving fires as it is. And I agree that giving reptiles HURT_COLD isn't a bad idea. Though we probably shouldn't give the Tarrasque a cold weakness. :)

jens June 29, 2011 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 56227)
Skeletons shouldn't get HURT_FIRE since bones do a pretty good job of surviving fires as it is. And I agree that giving reptiles HURT_COLD isn't a bad idea. Though we probably shouldn't give the Tarrasque a cold weakness. :)

Vampires on the other hand burn up quite easily :-)

Nomad June 30, 2011 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by d_m (Post 56226)
Maybe some of the reptiles should get HURT_COLD?

How about nagas and hydras?

Raggy June 30, 2011 12:57

white dragons should have HURT_FIRE, and likewise red dragons HURT_COLD

Starhawk June 30, 2011 18:35

I agree with skeletons not belonging on the HURT_FIRE list. That doesn't seem to logically follow, nor does it stem from old-school D&D/LOTR tropes.

The various floating-eye monsters could go on the HURT_COLD list. Eyes are mostly big bags of water, it sort-of makes sense that freezing would hurt them a little more than everyone else.

CunningGabe June 30, 2011 19:17

Okay, based on responses so far, here are the changes I'm considering:

- Remove HURT_FIRE from skeletons.
- Add HURT_FIRE to vampires.
- Add HURT_COLD to reptiles (except notables like the Tarrasque).
- Add HURT_COLD to snakes.

That makes the lists fairly even. Fire still comes out ahead, in the end (when considering monster resistance as well), but maybe that's okay.

I'm not looking to add any other monsters (again, to avoid weakening a lot of monsters across the board), but if people think something on my list should be replaced with something else, or that something should be removed, let me know.

bulian July 1, 2011 14:49

Is a lack of rFire/rCold insufficient? I guess this helps low level mages while not really affecting most other classes, so it seems reasonable to me. I wouldn't put hurt_fire on high end vampires with native depth below DL50.

Other suggestions for hurt_fire -
Hairy animals - wolves and yeti.
Low level liches

What about hurt_acid for regenerating creatures and metal objects, such as trolls, creeping coins, and golems?

Zyphyr July 1, 2011 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulian (Post 56323)
What about hurt_acid for regenerating creatures and metal objects, such as trolls, creeping coins, and golems?

Currently Coins resist acid.


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