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-   -   Should it be mentioned somewhere that shadow melee attacks ignore protection? (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=6308)

kryft September 5, 2013 22:33

Should it be mentioned somewhere that shadow melee attacks ignore protection?
 
I just managed to die to a shadow with a character that had just killed Duruin while barely taking a scratch (high protection + Hador's shield). I was surprised when the shadow seemed to hit me quite a bit harder than anything else I had fought recently (Duruin, giants, sapphire serpents, werewolves). Then I suddenly remembered that touch attacks ignore protection, which I had discovered only recently while going through the source code for the various attack methods to implement them correctly in fsil. Unfortunately it was too late for my poor character, who was already low on HP and ran into some monsters while trying to run away from the shadow.

I think it's fine that shadows ignore protection, but it should probably be more transparent in-game (no pun intended); perhaps it could be somehow indicated in the attack message, or at least in the monster memory. Alternatively I guess you could just mention it in the manual - after all, resistances aren't explained in-game either. As it is now, I never noticed this before going through the source code and now dying (probably because I never had a character with so much protection before that it was so obvious; until recently I always played with an 80x24 terminal, so I never saw the combat rolls either).

In the interest of consistency I suppose it could also be mentioned somewhere that molds (or rather 'spore' attacks) also ignore protection and always hit, and that worms (or 'crawl' attacks) halve protection rolls. These don't seem to matter that much in practice though. The mold effect becomes obvious quite quickly very early in the game, and worms are rarely a threat.

Incidentally I think something should be done about worm breeding, but that's another can of worms!

Scatha September 5, 2013 22:57

Yes, this should be documented. Thanks for catching it.

BlueFish September 6, 2013 03:01

I think it's subtly "documented" in the combat rolls window. Sharpness, which is essentially what "touch" and "spore" attacks have, shows up as a modifier to protection there.

debo September 6, 2013 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueFish (Post 84711)
I think it's subtly "documented" in the combat rolls window. Sharpness, which is essentially what "touch" and "spore" attacks have, shows up as a modifier to protection there.

There has been a recent influx of oldschool players who are adamant about playing in a single 80x24 terminal -- can't get combat rolls there. :)

Also I know some people prefer playing without combat rolls because it does give you some information that the interface probably shouldn't be giving away (e.g. if you're blind or a monster is covered in darkness, you can probably infer what is attacking you based on their damage-die rolls.) I personally like them, but hey.

half September 8, 2013 11:30

OK, I've added a phrase to the monster memory for touch attacks.

I've also removed the half armour effect of crawl attacks as (while making some sense) it was unnecessary complexity. I've slightly increased worm mass damage to compensate.

Patashu September 9, 2013 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by half (Post 84804)
OK, I've added a phrase to the monster memory for touch attacks.

I've also removed the half armour effect of crawl attacks as (while making some sense) it was unnecessary complexity. I've slightly increased worm mass damage to compensate.

But was the half armour effect a balance change or not intended to provide balance at all?

half September 9, 2013 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patashu (Post 84829)
But was the half armour effect a balance change or not intended to provide balance at all?

It was more a flavour thing (if something is crawling on you it will find chinks in your armour) and then we balanced around it. Worm masses should be about equally difficult after I remove the half-armour thing and up their damage a little. I suppose they will be slightly easier for high armour characters and slightly harder for low armour ones.


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