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-   -   What if someone had the map upside down? - aka blows again (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=9061)

 wobbly August 29, 2018 17:24

What if someone had the map upside down? - aka blows again

I used to hike with a guy who you'd never trust to navigate. I'm not sure he ever had the map upside down, that's actually pretty easy with a topographic map. I did see him try and use a compass on a car bonnet & he could point the wrong way north with a clear sky at noon.

"light weapons increase quicker with dex, heavy weapons with str..."
What if someone had the map upside down? After all the reverse is true.

I don't particularly think that's what happened but it occurs to me the progression is upside down. The top row (heavy weapons) goes from 1-4 blows as dex increases. The bottom row (light weapons) from 3-6. 4x with dex for heavy weapons. 2x with dex for light weapons. Eventually light weapons fall of the bottom if you are a warrior but that's besides the pt.

 wobbly August 29, 2018 18:02

Minor correction for those more interested in what's happening then my sarcasm. Peek dex to speed ratio is line 3. line 4 is about the speed of line 1. It accelerates quickly to line 3. It decelerates quickly after line 4.

If you want to understand what any of that means. Make every class use the same blow table & add the warriors extra blows after, restoring some sanity. Otherwise: which class? what str? what weapon weight? Too overloaded, really.

 wobbly August 29, 2018 18:51

& if you were actually after the sarcasm a mage has a 10 lb dagger. Minimum weight 4 lbs (the rapier). The 2.5x is relative to the warrior

mage:
min-weight:40
strength-multiplier:2

warrior:
min-weight:30
strength-multiplier:5

the priest has a 20lb mace(relative ...) & a 66.66666blah lb MoD (this 1 is why the table is ridiculous?)

min-weight:35
strength-multiplier:3

 Derakon August 29, 2018 19:20

I've been quietly agitating for everyone to use the same blows table for awhile now, with the warrior just getting a straight-up bonus blow at, say, level 20, regardless of what weapon they're using or what their stats are. I feel like the differing tables just makes the system unnecessarily opaque, and it's redundant with the stat bonuses/penalties that the different classes get.

 wobbly August 29, 2018 22:01

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 133122) I've been quietly agitating for everyone to use the same blows table for awhile now, with the warrior just getting a straight-up bonus blow at, say, level 20, regardless of what weapon they're using or what their stats are. I feel like the differing tables just makes the system unnecessarily opaque, and it's redundant with the stat bonuses/penalties that the different classes get.
It would make more sense.

Looking at it again. There's actually a little valley in the top right corner. The bit in the bottom left I can't see because there's an exponential, so I can only really see that bit for 1 class & weapon weight

Edit: More accurately it's a gully

 wobbly August 29, 2018 22:51

The 3 line where it moves quickest is 18 str for a warrior with a dagger, I think? That's what I get plugging the numbers in

For a 10lb 18/30 str?

A priest with a 10lb 18/80 str?

For a mage with a rapier. adj_str goes up to 240 not 600, asuming my maths is right here

Edit: Which it isn't 18/40. Takes a while for a mage to get there

Edit:Ok I could work out a bit more, or conclude the whole situation is ridiculous.

 Tibarius September 1, 2018 12:36

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 133122) I've been quietly agitating for everyone to use the same blows table for awhile now, with the warrior just getting a straight-up bonus blow at, say, level 20, regardless of what weapon they're using or what their stats are. I feel like the differing tables just makes the system unnecessarily opaque, and it's redundant with the stat bonuses/penalties that the different classes get.
+1 from me

 Pete Mack September 1, 2018 14:52

Same here. I never understood why the warrior lost his extra blow (at dl 26) in the first place.

 Werbaer September 3, 2018 12:59

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Pete Mack (Post 133163) Same here. I never understood why the warrior lost his extra blow (at dl 26) in the first place.
In which versions did the warrior have an extra blow? Frow-known, or 3.x?
(I've played 2.7.9 to 3.0.5, and 4.x, and none of these had an extra blow for warriors)

Maybe i should search dl 26 for the lost extra blow ;)

 Pete Mack September 3, 2018 13:35

3.0.x had the blow. It.was 3.2 or so that it went away (whenever the blows table was changed to punish heavy weapons use.)

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