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-   -   opportunist and the stealth dex point (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=8394)

seraph May 18, 2017 04:36

opportunist and the stealth dex point
 
i have two questions

1) do folks usually take follow-though or assassination as the pre-req for opportunist?

2) for folks that take opportunist is the dex point worth it?

Pete Mack May 18, 2017 06:52

Usual argument is DEX is worth a point each of melee and evasion. If it's cheaper than that in EXP, it's worthwhile. That said, it may be cheaper to get it via archery.

wobbly May 18, 2017 07:13

I usually go via Follow-Through (which I take anyway). Assasination is good though if you want cruel blow. The dex pt from archery is more economical on an elf. Take the dex pt from stealth if you're a. A haleth or b. like a lot of stealth anyway or c. going for stealth archery ( where the 2 dex pts boost evasion, archery & stealth).

Infinitum May 18, 2017 23:51

Asssassinaion. Follow-Through is pretty meh outside the throneroom (albeit you want it eventually), and creatures you can consistently sneak up on with a low stealth investment are sufficiently nasty that you want the extra burst damage; remember getting them to flee is almost as good as killing them outright due to opportunist. The DEX in stealth is probably not worth it solely for the melee/evasion boost unless you already want the stealth investment.

Patashu May 19, 2017 00:28

"Follow-Through is pretty meh outside the throneroom (albeit you want it eventually)"

How does Follow-Through interact with the Herbs of Rage you'll be popping all Throne Room long? Or is it a backup in case you run out?

Infinitum May 21, 2017 11:36

That's.. I don't actually know. My throneroom experience is mostly a haze of melting enemies and -more--prompts, and there are an awful lot attacks being processed so I always assumed it works. In any case it makes more sense as a momentum requisite than charge so there's that.

wobbly May 21, 2017 12:19

I've always been unsure too, for similar reasons. All the manual says is:

The follow-up attack only applies if the killing blow was a regular, flanking, controlled retreat, or follow-through attack (so it can be chained).

Is raging still a regular attack?
As for it being poor outside the throne room, if you look at Zorzac's wins he takes it pretty early. On the right type of build it's quite strong.

Philip May 21, 2017 13:02

Follow-through is decent enough on a flanker. From what I recall, things that let you attack around you, such as Whirlwind, only count as a regular attack against the monster you (or your flanking/controlled retreat) targeted, and against everyone else just duplicates your normal attack. It's been a while though, so I could be wrong.

ripforareason May 21, 2017 22:03

Follow through is fine but its main purpose is as a filler prerequisite to make Momentum and Opportunist more expensive, imo. I don't notice it being a huge difference maker very often. I don't think it does anything special wrt. extra attacks while under Rage in the throne room, or if it does, I never noticed...

seraph May 25, 2017 02:11

i've been experimenting with both and so far i agree with infinitum. follow-through is not particularly good on it's own. with assassination, picking off entire packs of enemies while their comrades sleep is entirely doable with only enough stealth for opportunist. though, i'm playing a 5 dex feanor; i'm sure a naugrim would have a very different opinion.


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