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-   -   Issues on current master (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=8363)

Sky April 24, 2017 07:56

Did you increase the drop ratio? I found a steady stream of OOD gear. Westernesse from a DL2 kobold, PDSM craftsmanship DL32, dwarven mail, RoS +5 .. a whole bunch of 9-9 and 8-9 levels.

Pete Mack April 24, 2017 09:24

Consider: One, probability is a factor which operates *within* natural forces. Two, probability is *not* operating as a factor. Three, we are now held within un-, sub- or super-natural forces. Discuss.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky (Post 120299)
Did you increase the drop ratio? I found a steady stream of OOD gear. Westernesse from a DL2 kobold, PDSM craftsmanship DL32, dwarven mail, RoS +5 .. a whole bunch of 9-9 and 8-9 levels.


takkaria April 24, 2017 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwarl (Post 120282)
I appreciate the efforts made toward rebalancing the status effects but there are still a lot of problems: [...]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to think on this a little bit more, and if I can't come up with anything else, I'll turn on saving throws for all monster status effects again. If that still doesn't play well, I'll back out the changes. And if the changes around status effects are broken by the time Nick wants to release 4.1, they won't go in that release - so please don't worry about 4.1 being broken because of this tinkering.

PowerWyrm April 24, 2017 12:39

The initial problem was that saving throw formula was too restrictive, which was changed. So maybe just stick with the new formula for all effects and reintroduce the saving throws? Also removing the wands from shop 6 would help.

Sky April 24, 2017 13:40

Lets take a page out of rolemaster and use a similar formula.
The following are factors - actual values need to be playtested:
1. Inherent spell level
2. Caster level
3. Target level
4. Specific resistance
5. Random die roll

If the result is over a certain value, you get full spell effect. ( rm also had criticals..)
Below a minimum, no effect, and in a range, variable partial effect.

1 doesnt need to be exactly the casting level, it can be a modifier a specific spell has (e.g. "annihilate" +20).

Obviously, this approach requires a whole lot more coding...

This way, instead of having spells have no/rarely effect, or always effect and thus OP, you generally have a partial effect (e.g. light stun, 2 round confusion, slowed -3, etc) with occasionally either full status or none at all.

The stronger you are (and weaker the target) the more likely a full effect, with the opposite also true.

Derakon April 24, 2017 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by takkaria (Post 120301)
Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to think on this a little bit more, and if I can't come up with anything else, I'll turn on saving throws for all monster status effects again. If that still doesn't play well, I'll back out the changes. And if the changes around status effects are broken by the time Nick wants to release 4.1, they won't go in that release - so please don't worry about 4.1 being broken because of this tinkering.

What do you think about the idea, previously brought up, of replacing the status effect wands with throwable potions? Then they're inherently one-shot abilities that you aren't able to spam on every fight.

takkaria April 24, 2017 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 120305)
What do you think about the idea, previously brought up, of replacing the status effect wands with throwable potions? Then they're inherently one-shot abilities that you aren't able to spam on every fight.

I am not super keen on adding the infrastructure to make potions have effects on hit, so I'd be more tempted to make them scrolls.

Pete Mack April 24, 2017 17:37

It doesn't have to be a throwing effect:
Potion of Hound's Breath (Vibration) for stunning
Potion of Hound's Breath (Inertia) for slowing
Potion of Dragon's breath (Bronze) for confusion

Quote:

Originally Posted by takkaria (Post 120306)
I am not super keen on adding the infrastructure to make potions have effects on hit, so I'd be more tempted to make them scrolls.


Derakon April 24, 2017 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Mack (Post 120307)
It doesn't have to be a throwing effect:
Potion of Hound's Breath (Vibration) for stunning
Potion of Hound's Breath (Inertia) for slowing
Potion of Dragon's breath (Bronze) for confusion

Though these would implicitly be conic area-of-effect, which would probably be too strong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by takkaria
I am not super keen on adding the infrastructure to make potions have effects on hit, so I'd be more tempted to make them scrolls.

As far as I'm aware we don't currently have any bolt-effect scrolls, since that was traditionally reserved for wands and rods. That feels kind of odd to me, though it could be worth trying for playtesting purposes if nothing else -- it'd replicate the gameplay impact of throwable potions without the infrastructural changes.

I guess another workaround would be to add a NO_RECHARGE flag to wands that causes them to be destroyed when their last charge is used up. That might interact oddly with charge pooling (when wands are combined in stacks and their charges "merge") though.

Nomad April 24, 2017 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 120308)
As far as I'm aware we don't currently have any bolt-effect scrolls, since that was traditionally reserved for wands and rods. That feels kind of odd to me, though it could be worth trying for playtesting purposes if nothing else -- it'd replicate the gameplay impact of throwable potions without the infrastructural changes.

Maybe the equivalent of a scroll of Monster Confusion, where it affects the next monster you melee? Or an area effect scroll that only affects directly adjacent monsters?


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