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-   -   Issues on current master (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=8363)

gameplay appreciator April 24, 2017 18:46

I think the right take on the previous situation of having a large number of wands and such that effectively do nothing was not to try to make them do something, but instead to get rid of them so that you're not seeing so much junk in the dungeon. Giving the player even more types of powerful consumables doesn't improve the game. The player needs nerfs, not buffs.

Sky April 24, 2017 18:53

i think we are looking into giving both player and also everything else buffs, in varying amounts.

Derakon April 24, 2017 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by gameplay appreciator (Post 120310)
I think the right take on the previous situation of having a large number of wands and such that effectively do nothing was not to try to make them do something, but instead to get rid of them so that you're not seeing so much junk in the dungeon. Giving the player even more types of powerful consumables doesn't improve the game. The player needs nerfs, not buffs.

What we want to do is to give the player more meaningful options. This can be accomplished both by giving them more tools, and by taking tools that are too dominant away. For example, I believe all this is leading up to the removal of Teleport Other and other cheap unlimited teleportation.

(That will, incidentally, probably require removing some tools from monsters as well; mass- and chain-summoning being the most obvious problems)

Replacing the wands with more equivalents to the Scroll of Monster Confusion gets my vote as a simple solution that we can probably do right now. The only problem with it is that now applying a status effect requires two turns -- one to read the scroll, one to hit the monster. But that can easily be handled by balancing the power of the status effects, which is something we're working on anyway. Maybe down the road we can add chuckable potions that apply a weaker (or shorter-duration) status effect but only require one turn to use.

gameplay appreciator April 24, 2017 19:07

Improving monster behavior, e.g. reducing their extreme susceptibility to stealth, better pathing/AI (which seems to be happening), is good. You got to stretch out the timescale encounters evolve on. Axe the high impact, instant effects (summoning, banishment, all kinds of teleportation, destruction). Reduce the player's control over situations. No-save monster statuses go the wrong way on that.

edit: didn't see the derakon post before hitting post. Teleport other removal sounds good.

Gwarl April 24, 2017 19:36

Actually I think teleport other is a great candidate for allowing a monster save.

I just want to say that in 4.0.5 status effect wands/spells aren't completely useless, they just pale in comparison to hitting things with your sword in most instances.

Gwarl April 24, 2017 20:23

Two clarifications on the minor build issues I reported in the last thread -

The build process creates 'score' and 'save' directories in /lib/user/ but the game looks for them in /lib/

running version.sh in /scripts/ doesn't seem to create a version file in the root directory.

Nick April 24, 2017 22:43

From the old thread:
Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm (Post 120302)
IMO the monster list revamp should be left out for 4.1, which already has a ton of new features, especially if it's gonna impact the list drastically.

You are probably right, but I'm probably going to ignore that :)

Although I have just looked at my original plan post, and monster list is firmly under 4.2. I will consider further. What do others think?

Sky April 24, 2017 22:45

back to the bugs.

if i try to squelch a cursed weapon, such as Sword (+0,+0) [cursed] i will get the message "squelch all non artifact swords?" because the game sees the cursed sword as an Ego weapon.

Nick April 24, 2017 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 120312)
What we want to do is to give the player more meaningful options. This can be accomplished both by giving them more tools, and by taking tools that are too dominant away. For example, I believe all this is leading up to the removal of Teleport Other and other cheap unlimited teleportation.

(That will, incidentally, probably require removing some tools from monsters as well; mass- and chain-summoning being the most obvious problems)

I have no plans at this point to remove teleport other or summoning. My feeling is that they support one of Angband's distinguishing features: things happen suddenly, and the player needs to react quickly.

Gwarl April 24, 2017 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 120319)
From the old thread:


You are probably right, but I'm probably going to ignore that :)

Although I have just looked at my original plan post, and monster list is firmly under 4.2. I will consider further. What do others think?

I don't mind waiting for the monster list, but I think once pathfinding has been worked out the changes that have gone in since 4.0.5 (sans status effects :p) justify a new minor version. In particular I think the new ID system and the curses are strokes of brilliance.

Although that does remind me, remove curse has some strange behaviour where you can remove unidentified curses sometimes and not others, which acts as a free pseudo-ID. I haven't been able to pinpoint the exact circumstances where this happens, but it's a wrinkle to be ironed out.


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