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-   -   Comp 193 (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=7976)

debo September 15, 2016 02:50

Comp 193
 
Hi,

We'll be playing Minimal 1.0 for comp 193. Please enjoy responsibly.

GLHF

Antoine September 15, 2016 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by debo (Post 112716)
Hi,

We'll be playing Minimal 1.0 for comp 193. Please enjoy responsibly.

GLHF

Minimal is an experimental *band, forked off NPP. As explained under Debo's link, it aims to give a simple but difficult playing experience by greatly reducing the number of:
  • levels
  • monster types
  • uniques (and they are Tolkien only)
  • items
  • egos
  • artefacts
  • spells.

This is a beta release really, I have only played it on Windows, do let me know if you have any problems compiling / running.

A.

bron September 15, 2016 22:21

I was able to get this to compile on my Linux box with relatively little trouble. I haven't tried to actually play it yet, but I have gotten to the "town" screen with the given savefile.

What I did:

Run the autogen.sh command:
Code:

sh ./autogen.sh
In order to do this I had to first do two things:
1) The 'autogen.sh' script has a space between the '#' and the '!' on the first line. The space needs to be removed.

2) I had to remove the carriage-return characters i.e. convert the dos standard "carriage-return / linefeed" into the Unix standard "linefeed" (only). Otherwise, the shell kept trying to treat the carriage-return as a command to execute. I do this with
Code:

    sed 's/\r//'  < infile  > outfile
but there are a host of other ways.


Once autogen.sh has been run, run the configure command. I used:
Code:

./configure --with-no-install --disable-x11 --prefix=`pwd`

We now want to compile it using "make". I used the default Makefile provided, except I had to comment out the line:
Code:

LDFLAGS += -lSDL
Once that was done, I could run "make". It compiled and linked, although it gave some errors after successfully linking.

Antoine September 15, 2016 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by bron (Post 112742)
I was able to get this to compile on my Linux box with relatively little trouble. I haven't tried to actually play it yet, but I have gotten to the "town" screen with the given savefile.

What I did:

Run the autogen.sh command:
Code:

sh ./autogen.sh
In order to do this I had to first do two things:
1) The 'autogen.sh' script has a space between the '#' and the '!' on the first line. The space needs to be removed.

2) I had to remove the carriage-return characters i.e. convert the dos standard "carriage-return / linefeed" into the Unix standard "linefeed" (only). Otherwise, the shell kept trying to treat the carriage-return as a command to execute. I do this with
Code:

    sed 's/\r//'  < infile  > outfile
but there are a host of other ways.


Once autogen.sh has been run, run the configure command. I used:
Code:

./configure --with-no-install --disable-x11 --prefix=`pwd`

We now want to compile it using "make". I used the default Makefile provided, except I had to comment out the line:
Code:

LDFLAGS += -lSDL
Once that was done, I could run "make". It compiled and linked, although it gave some errors after successfully linking.

Hi Bron

Thanks very much for that!

nikheizen said he got it compiled "on Ubuntu, using:"
Code:

sh autogen.sh
./configure --with-no-install
make

which sounds like a subset of your changes - easier for him perhaps because he was using a different flavour of *nix?

Should I make these changes to the distro? or create a separate *nix distro?

I don't know much about this stuff as you can no doubt tell.

A.

debo September 16, 2016 01:09

I also had to change the shebang at the beginning of autogen.sh and dos2unix it on OSX.

Antoine September 18, 2016 00:24

Debo and wobbly are tearing their hair out over stat drain.

This problem could be fixed by making !Restoration native to shallower depth - or purchasable at the Alchemist.

One possible fix would be to (a) close the game, (b) go to line 1317 of /lib/edit/object.txt, which should read:

Code:

A:20/2:40/4
and (c) change this to e.g.

Code:

A:15/2:40/4
making !Restoration native to DL 15 instead of DL 20. Or whatever.

I suggest any comp players who would like to make this change should do so now.

I'm also planning to make some changes to unique monster rarities but that should probably wait until after the comp.

A.

debo September 18, 2016 02:06

Aside from this stat drain stuff, I strongly encourage people to give this comp a go. I didn't think the game would feel that different than Vanilla or Quickband, but it really does, and I think it's pretty fun. (It's also possible some of what I'm experiencing is from not having played NPP much. It had too many Ps for me that I could N ignore.)

I'm not sure 'minimal' is necessarily the best name for it -- 50 floors and the current monster list is still a big game. Maybe 'Leanband' :)

wobbly September 18, 2016 20:51

It's got a nice quick pace to it. Aim for a ghoul solution by 600'. I'm going to try collecting & hoarding those ?detect evil next run

Antoine September 18, 2016 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by wobbly (Post 112843)
It's got a nice quick pace to it. Aim for a ghoul solution by 600'. I'm going to try collecting & hoarding those ?detect evil next run

I guess homunculus is a problem too

And bronze dragon after that

A.

debo September 18, 2016 23:52

Shelob at speed 15 seems a bit silly for her depth? I routinely meet her at DL5. Wouldn't 10 be enough? At least that way you can quaff !haste and run instead of having the interesting decision of "do I have ?teleport in my pack"

Also the "sinister, bitchy" description thing on that new darkelf unique is a little............

Antoine September 18, 2016 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by debo (Post 112846)
Shelob at speed 20 seems a bit silly for her depth? I routinely meet her at DL5. Wouldn't 10 be enough?

Fair call. You could change line 10694 of monster.txt from

Code:

I:125:20d10:15:25:10
to e.g.

Code:

I:115:20d10:15:25:10
I'll rewrite Shelob after the comp.

A.

debo September 19, 2016 04:43

It's fine for the comp, I was just thinking in general :)

Antoine September 21, 2016 10:51

Some more stuff for my to-do list
- Give Priests a 'Turn Undead' spell at about CL10, which can banish ghouls and ghosts
- Allow a 10% chance of successfully reading a scroll when confused
- Make more egos and jewelery drop from about DL 15

A.

debo September 21, 2016 14:41

Out of curiosity, what was the motivation for forking from NPP instead of Vanilla for this project? NPP seems to have a lot of added mechanics that don't really fall into the "minimal" theme.

Antoine September 21, 2016 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by debo (Post 112893)
Out of curiosity, what was the motivation for forking from NPP instead of Vanilla for this project? NPP seems to have a lot of added mechanics that don't really fall into the "minimal" theme.

Familiarity, really.

I turned off a lot of Npp's bells and whistles. I did retain some gameplay features which I think are a large improvement over V (on balance).

A.

bron September 23, 2016 21:56

So I've been messing around with this a little, and I have to agree that the stat drain problem is a serious issue. The code itself turns off the "store services", which would allow the player to purchase restoration services at the Alchemist. I also note that while the code refers to store services as an "OPTion", it is not exported to the Birth menu (i.e. there is no way to turn it on, other than hacking the code). Does this stuff just not work?

Antoine September 24, 2016 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by bron (Post 112948)
So I've been messing around with this a little, and I have to agree that the stat drain problem is a serious issue. The code itself turns off the "store services", which would allow the player to purchase restoration services at the Alchemist. I also note that while the code refers to store services as an "OPTion", it is not exported to the Birth menu (i.e. there is no way to turn it on, other than hacking the code). Does this stuff just not work?

Store services are meant to be unavailable - I implemented this in a quick hackish way.

IMO the best fix to the stat drain problem is to bring !Restoration shallower - I will do this in the next release - feel free to make the change in your copy in the meantime.

A.

bron September 24, 2016 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antoine (Post 112812)
One possible fix would be to (a) close the game, (b) go to line 1317 of /lib/edit/object.txt, which should read:
Code:

A:20/2:40/4
and (c) change this to e.g.
Code:

A:15/2:40/4
making !Restoration native to DL 15 instead of DL 20.
A.

ok, now I'm really confused. I had assumed that the 'A'llocation depths were being cut in half i.e. that if it says A:20 that that really meant dungeon level 10. These numbers are literal? Stat gain potions don't occur until level 40? I thought someone said that there are only 50 levels? Yes/No ?

Antoine September 24, 2016 01:58

[scratches head]

In fact it seems to be me that was confused.

You should cut in half the depths shown in object.txt. Therefore, a better fix is to change the aforementioned line to something like:

Code:

A:20/2:30/2
Sorry about that
A.

ranger jeff September 24, 2016 16:03

Lol I changed it as you first suggested and was fine. Though maybe I was just fortunate to not get drained before 1) getting a rod of detect doors/stairs/TRAPS, 2) getting a ring of might, and 3) potions of restoration starting to drop in the mid teens. Though I've also been playing archery (elves are better with missiles than melee, right?) so I probably didn't melee anything that could have drained me. Well, Ghosts, but who cares about WIS/INT with a fighter?

Honestly right now I'm finding the challenge of Minimal was all in the low levels. Sure I'm still playing cautiously, I'm sure one of the new monsters coming up will give me hell (Pit Fiends I hear, but I have rChaos, and red D's and chromatic D's are to be avoided to the end - yes I read the one ladder post that made it down to 48...) But for now I can plow though pretty much any lone monster without consuming any resources. And pits can be picked apart a few at a time. So my experience is, very tough start leads to cautious play, which leads to tedious level clearing in the mid-game. Probably not the right balance.

Antoine September 24, 2016 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranger jeff (Post 112978)
Lol I changed it as you first suggested and was fine. Though maybe I was just fortunate to not get drained before 1) getting a rod of detect doors/stairs/TRAPS, 2) getting a ring of might, and 3) potions of restoration starting to drop in the mid teens. Though I've also been playing archery (elves are better with missiles than melee, right?) so I probably didn't melee anything that could have drained me. Well, Ghosts, but who cares about WIS/INT with a fighter?

Honestly right now I'm finding the challenge of Minimal was all in the low levels. Sure I'm still playing cautiously, I'm sure one of the new monsters coming up will give me hell (Pit Fiends I hear, but I have rChaos, and red D's and chromatic D's are to be avoided to the end - yes I read the one ladder post that made it down to 48...) But for now I can plow though pretty much any lone monster without consuming any resources. And pits can be picked apart a few at a time. So my experience is, very tough start leads to cautious play, which leads to tedious level clearing in the mid-game. Probably not the right balance.

Keep trucking and we can take stock afterwards and figure out what needs changing?

A.

ranger jeff September 26, 2016 04:23

Sure. And I spoke too soon, just decided Dracoliches are to be avoided after getting mana blasted 4 rounds in a row (at +23 speed) and having to use 3 !healings to keep above 500hp (its attacks seemed to be capable of over 400hp damage.) But they're kind of like that in Vanilla, too, a bit out of depth and definitely dangerous. Now if it dropped guaranteed up to six excellent objects...

debo October 6, 2016 02:04

Huge congrats to ranger jeff for taking comp 193, and for being the first-ever Minimal winner.

Kudos also to elliptic who took both 2nd and 3rd place.

Hopefully we see a release of the discussed minimal changes sometime in the next 4 years :-)

Antoine October 6, 2016 14:53

@debo - hmf! Greatness cannot be hurried


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