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-   -   on shops - a newbies perspective (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=1405)

bebo January 30, 2009 16:26

on shops - a newbies perspective
 
recently with my last characters i found myself consistently town-scumming in order to get the shops to spawn the right potions of restore stat, and occasionally scrolls of enchant weapon, in order to enchant my longbow, which more often than not i also havo to scum for in order to buy after i recall for the first time.

Now, i understand the significance of the relatively random generation of the stock of shops, but i think that for some of the more important consumables a fixed spot (like in the general store) would enhance the fun without having a significant impact on gameplay; maybe increasing price to balance the fact that you are sure to find what you need.

In the initial phases of the game, when you are (i presume) more likely to need this kind of stuff, gold is still an issue, so i don't see many chances for abuse.

Any thoughts?

As a caveat i must say that i am pretty new to the game, and never got lower than dlvl 45 or clvl 32 - so i'm probably missing the big picture

Donald Jonker January 30, 2009 16:41

This is a valid critique. IMO, NPP gets it right by providing all the necessaries at a higher premium via shop services. The one exception being ?WoR and ?phase are not guaranteed, which hopefully will be fixed in the newly arriving version.

I presume the reason for denying the player guaranteed necessities is to force him/her to try and make do without - providing interesting tactical challenges - how can a warrior survive without _telSelf? how can a mage survive with severely drained int? &c. These kinds of challenges sound interesting on paper, but I've never actually found them to be so in practice. OTOH it is fun to read Eddie's blurbs about making it down to 3500' with a (+0,+2) whip and a pile of iron spikes... :)

So I townscum, which is the lesser of two evils in my book. But takkaria will be revisiting town-stocking in 3.1.1 (I think) so perhaps matters will improve (though I doubt to the point where townscumming will be rendered completely unnecessary to people like me).

tigpup January 30, 2009 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donald Jonker (Post 14603)
This is a valid critique. IMO, NPP gets it right by providing all the necessaries at a higher premium via shop services.

The NPP way is indeed useful, but can lead to some problems.

!Heal is always available for between 16,000 and 20,000 gold. Which makes gold very useful towards the end. I've gone down to face Sauron having bought 50 !Heal, which makes things a little easier ;)

(oh - and I town-scum in NPP sometimes too)

-Neil.

Zikke January 30, 2009 17:19

I believe Takkaria was asking for feedback on which items should be in stock in the shops and which items are most useful at various clvls.

bebo January 30, 2009 17:34

i'd probably say:

essential:
- the 4 basic magic/prayer books
- all potions of restore stat
- staffs of teleport

very useful (ie worth town-scumming for):
- staffs of magic mapping and identify
- potion of restore life
- potion of CLW / CMW / CCW (not sure which one, maybe all?)
- longbow
- scrolls of enchant weapon (not sure on this one - might be too unbalancing)

as for clvl, i think it might be very class dependant, and don't really have the experience to give input regarding that

ps - i was reding the other thread about iron spikes - my personal view on the matter is that they may as well be taken out of the game, but it may be too radical a choice

Larvitz January 30, 2009 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by bebo (Post 14611)
ps - i was reding the other thread about iron spikes - my personal view on the matter is that they may as well be taken out of the game, but it may be too radical a choice

Would you maybe be referring to my thread? :p

bebo January 30, 2009 17:52

yep, that's it :cool:

Pete Mack January 30, 2009 22:17

There is rarely a fixed list of items I want from the stores. I rarely want spell book 4, because it becomes useful so late in the game. I do want ?Recharge sometimes, and _dEvil or _dInvis. Sometimes I need a stack of !rCold or !rHeat. Sometimes I need !Hero, and ?Bless or ?Chant. Sometimes I need ?remove curse.

Certainly I use many of the above as often as most !rStat potions.

Really, I think buying out stores is not a bad solution. It's just annoying to do, as things stand now. And there's usually no other use for all that gold that gets stacked up in a game.

Donald Jonker January 30, 2009 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Mack (Post 14646)
Really, I think buying out stores is not a bad solution. It's just annoying to do, as things stand now. And there's usually no other use for all that gold that gets stacked up in a game.

I agree on this point. The solution in Eddie's patch of having a command that buys out the store without laboriously moving the contents it to your inventory is something that ought to be adopted. If the Maintainer (peace be upon his name) is loath to implement NPP's store services, this would be a good half-measure.

Although it seems in 3.1 that healing, *healing* and *remove curse* and other endgame consumables are less frequent at the black market than has been previous. But maybe that's just because I recently got to a point in the game where I was in dire need of such things, which hasn't regularly been the case.

bebo January 30, 2009 22:59

i totally forgot abou _dEvil and _dInvis :eek: doh!

?remove curse, with the new changes in the id system, doesn't really seem that vital to me, i've actually have to use it once yet... (maybe i just got lucky)

i see how ?recharge can be very useful with powerful staves/wands, but my main point was in having items that you consistently and often need always available, this doesn't seem like the case

my argument with !rStat is that in most cases i find myself scumming for them, since reduced stats have a huge impact on my chars performance - having them always available simply reduces the annoyance factor

i agree with the 4th book being useful only later on, i was suggesting it probably out of "cosmetic" (lacking a better term) reasons more than anything else - having the first three and not the fourth always there seems kinda wrong

regarding the others, it's probably my playstyle that is lacking something, as i see that almost everyone is using !Hero et al. , while i almost never use them.

EDIT: regarding store buyout, if i'm correct it's an option only available in the later stages of the game, when you have loads of cash - but most items are necessary early on ...


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