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Derakon April 13, 2013 16:28

That generation chance of 1 means you probably wouldn't have found it, but man, that is a very nice weapon. I'm surprised that the activation doesn't take longer to recharge.

scud April 16, 2013 03:22

This was a nice find for Dave the Dwarf Priest; has been a while since I've had a pStun...
HTML Code:

g) the Mithril Plate Mail of Erebri (-3) [60,+9] <+4>
    Dropped by a Dread at 4800 feet (level 96).
   
    +4 wisdom, dexterity, stealth, speed.
    It brands your melee attacks with weak acid.
    Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, poison, light,
    dark, chaos, disenchantment.
    Provides protection from fear, blindness, confusion, stunning.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
    Sustains constitution.
    Speeds regeneration.  Sustains your life force.

The artifact.spo says that it's...
HTML Code:

Min Level 100, Max Level 127, Generation chance 1, Power 796, 30.0 lbs
Based on Bladeturner

...so how did it end up at DL96? I didn't realise that artefacts travelled OOD.

Also found the Ringil-based weapon with +3 to all six stats, *slay* to dragons/demons/undead, frost and flame branding, lightning immunity.... on a crummy trident. Absolutely useless to me by the time I found it.

Also, third completed game in a row in which I've ended up wearing an Amulet of Sustenance.

Derakon April 16, 2013 05:22

Artifacts, like anything else, can be generated out of depth; the only hard-and-fast rule is that they can't be generated in the town (as I understand it). I believe that the system is simply that when an item gets dropped, its effective depth can be "supercharged" (pick a random number; if it passes, add 1 to the item level and repeat; otherwise stop). Since this process is uncapped, anything can drop anywhere...it's just very unlikely to get a high-level item early on.

Having to pass 4 out-of-depth checks is not especially onerous, and moreover, items in vaults get boosts to their level so you wouldn't even need that. Starting from dlvl 87, an item on the floor of a vault could potentially be in-depth even if its native depth were 127.

Pete Mack April 16, 2013 05:49

Derakon is correct. Moreover, this applies to monsters, too. So it's possible to see Carcharoth in a LV at dl 56. (I did, and ran like hell.)

Timo Pietilä April 16, 2013 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Mack (Post 78954)
Derakon is correct. Moreover, this applies to monsters, too. So it's possible to see Carcharoth in a LV at dl 56. (I did, and ran like hell.)

I got Vecna in NPP at around 1500'. In NPP Vecna can teleport himself toward you, so it was rather scary 10 or so turns (my turns, 20 or so Vecnas) before I managed to teleport close enough to stairs that Vecna could not get more than four free turns, each of which could kill me instantly. Lucky me, I survived.

There was GV in that level.

Pete Mack April 30, 2013 23:30

Just got a good drop from Medusa.
Code:

g) the Bar Chain Mail of Nimran (-2) [45,+22]
    Dropped by Medusa, the Gorgon at 4200 feet (level 84).
   
    Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, poison, light,
    nexus, chaos, disenchantment.
    Provides protection from blindness, confusion.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
    Slows your metabolism.

First source of pConf all game.

Derakon April 30, 2013 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Mack (Post 79601)
First source of pConf all game.

When I play randarts I assume that I will never manage to cover both pConf and pBlind without compromising my character badly in other important areas. Looks like you're pretty well-set though.

Pete Mack April 30, 2013 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 79602)
When I play randarts I assume that I will never manage to cover both pConf and pBlind without compromising my character badly in other important areas. Looks like you're pretty well-set though.

Yep, I suspect it is Bladeturner. It is only missing rNether and rShards. It's one benefit of Randarts that artifacts can get turned into much more common base items, rather than (say) PDSM, BoC, MoD

Derakon May 1, 2013 00:00

Hm, I believe that the rarity of a randart is based on the compounded rarity of the standart's base item and its artifact, so that overall rarity is unchanged. I admit I could be wrong though.

Estie May 1, 2013 01:30

Doubt that is Bladeturner, though its a sweet armour. I have had many a game without an armour close to that.

scud May 1, 2013 01:36

Didn't find it, but this was in my last completed game...

Code:

the Green Dragon Scale Mail 'Cirrahadh' (-2) [20,+39] <+4>
----------------------------------------------------------
 +4 strength, wisdom, dexterity, constitution, charisma.
 +20% to searching.
 It causes your melee attacks to *slay* dragons.
 It brands your melee attacks with weak frost.
 Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, poison, light, nexus,
 nether.
 Provides protection from fear, blindness.
 Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
 Sustains wisdom, charisma.
 Prevents paralysis.  Sustains your life force.  Grants the ability to see
 invisible things. 
 
 When aimed, it allows you to breathe sound for 130 damage.
 Takes 155 to 209 turns to recharge.
 
Min Level 100, Max Level 127, Generation chance 1, Power 777, 11.3 lbs
Based on Bladeturner.

Now *that* is what a 'Bladeturner' should look like, although I'd say the Bladeturner-derived armour in post #202 is better because of the pBlnd/pConf/pStun triple whammy.

MattB May 14, 2013 14:44

1 Attachment(s)
The great thing about randarts is that for every incredible Main Gauche you find (see below), you get one of the attached...
(What a handy activation! Where on earth did it come from?)
------------------------------------

the Main Gauche of Andir (7d5) (+15,+15) <+1>
Dropped by a Greater Maia at 2500 feet (level 50).

+1 charisma.
Slays evil creatures.
*Slays* dragons.
Provides resistance to lightning, fire.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.

Combat info:
5.5 blows/round.
With +0 STR and +2 DEX you would get 5.8 blows
Average damage/round: 507.8 vs. evil creatures, 878.5 vs. dragons,
and 384 vs. others.
----------------------------------

MattB May 19, 2013 11:21

Wish I'd found this before I died - would have been really handy for a Half-Troll warrior...

the Fur Cloak of Cardil (+8,+3) [3,+16] <+10>
---------------------------------------------
A heavy cloak made from fur and lined with leather; a luxury.

+10 dexterity, speed.
Provides resistance to lightning.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.


Min Level 60, Max Level 127, Generation chance 12, Power 394, 2.5 lbs
Based on Gondricam.

OOD Town drunk May 19, 2013 12:45

Just found this monster in 3.4.1(The trident does 1d10 normally):

the Trident of Guingwe (7d10) (+7,+16) [+26] <+3>
Dropped by a Berserker at 3300 feet (level 66).

+3 wisdom.
Provides resistance to light.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Blessed by the gods.

Combat info:
5.0 blows/round.
Average damage/round: 424.

AnonymousHero May 19, 2013 12:56

Holy carp!

scud May 19, 2013 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattB (Post 80310)
Wish I'd found this before I died - would have been really handy for a Half-Troll warrior...

the Fur Cloak of Cardil (+8,+3) [3,+16] <+10>

Wow. I've seen a two or three randarts with +8/+9 to both speed and charisma, and had assumed that a boost of that size could *only* be applied charisma rather than any useful stat.

Not a particularly rare item, either.

Timo Pietilä May 19, 2013 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by OOD Town drunk (Post 80314)
Just found this monster in 3.4.1(The trident does 1d10 normally):

the Trident of Guingwe (7d10) (+7,+16) [+26] <+3>
Dropped by a Berserker at 3300 feet (level 66).

+3 wisdom.
Provides resistance to light.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Blessed by the gods.

Combat info:
5.0 blows/round.
Average damage/round: 424.

Glaive of Pain with WIS bonus basically. 9d6 averages to 31.5, 7d10 averages 38.5 and Pain has bigger to_dam.

If that had some brand/useful slays like evil then it would be a killer weapon.

Timo Pietilä May 19, 2013 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattB (Post 80310)
Wish I'd found this before I died - would have been really handy for a Half-Troll warrior...

the Fur Cloak of Cardil (+8,+3) [3,+16] <+10>
---------------------------------------------
A heavy cloak made from fur and lined with leather; a luxury.

+10 dexterity, speed.
Provides resistance to lightning.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.


Min Level 60, Max Level 127, Generation chance 12, Power 394, 2.5 lbs
Based on Gondricam.

How does Gondricam translate to that???? One of the weakest weapons gets +10 to speed, combat bonuses and +10 DEX when turned to cloak. That cloak is worth about 100 * Gondricam.

Just for fun, this is Gondricam in 3.4.1:

Code:

N:79:'Gondricam'
I:sword:Cutlass
W:20:8:110:28000
A:12:20 to 65
P:0:1d8:10:11:50
F:RES_ACID | RES_ELEC | RES_FIRE | RES_COLD | FEATHER |
F:SEE_INVIS | REGEN | FREE_ACT |
L:4:DEX
L:2:STEALTH

IOW: (1d8) (+10,+11) [50] <+4, +2> (DEX and Stealth)
resist basic 4, feather fall, see_inv, regen, FA.

Just +4 DEX and bit better AC bonus over ordinary defender cutlass.

Derakon May 19, 2013 18:23

The game thinks that cloak has power 394, which sounds about right from what I can remember of other listed power levels. What I'm curious about is what it thinks Gondricam's power is. Randarts have a fairly wide variance in power compared to their base objects, if I recall correctly, so I wouldn't be surprised if the game considers Gondricam to only be around 100-150.

That cloak represents a combination of rare factors, though: first, getting lots of speed on a non-boot/ring slot (usually you only see maybe +4 speed outside of those slots), and second, adding a second stat bonus with the same pval. It is pretty absurdly good.

Magnate May 19, 2013 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 80328)
The game thinks that cloak has power 394, which sounds about right from what I can remember of other listed power levels. What I'm curious about is what it thinks Gondricam's power is. Randarts have a fairly wide variance in power compared to their base objects, if I recall correctly, so I wouldn't be surprised if the game considers Gondricam to only be around 100-150.

That cloak represents a combination of rare factors, though: first, getting lots of speed on a non-boot/ring slot (usually you only see maybe +4 speed outside of those slots), and second, adding a second stat bonus with the same pval. It is pretty absurdly good.

Gondricam must be within 20% of 394 or the generator would have rejected the randart. The disparity arises from Gondricam's huge AC bonus being turned into speed. Nobody thinks the AC is anywhere near as good as the speed, because it's in a weapon slot. In my last overhaul of the object power calculation, I implemented per-slot power for most things, but not for AC.

Separately, large speed bonuses are *still* underrated, but I gave up trying to deal with that after four years of trying different approaches. As soon as they're properly rated, everything else breaks.

Raajaton May 20, 2013 00:19

Just picked up this awesome chest piece in a vault - activates to be a potion of life!

the Ribbed Plate Armour of Sulur (-3) [66,+11] <+4, +1>
Dropped by an Ancient multi-hued dragon at 4900 feet (level 98).

+4 wisdom, dexterity, constitution, tunneling.
Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, poison, dark,
sound, nexus.
Provides protection from fear, blindness, confusion.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Speeds regeneration.

When activated, it heals 5000 hit points, restores experience and
stats, heals cut damage, and cures stunning, poison, blindness,
and confusion.
Takes 722 to 1058 turns to recharge at your current speed.
Your chance of success is 93.9%

MattB May 20, 2013 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 80328)
That cloak represents a combination of rare factors, though: first, getting lots of speed on a non-boot/ring slot (usually you only see maybe +4 speed outside of those slots), and second, adding a second stat bonus with the same pval. It is pretty absurdly good.

Ah, but here's the thing about randarts - I never actually had it!
Yes, it's nominally pretty common, but I had been hanging around in the sixties for maybe 50 level generations and it didn't show up! Ironically, the reason that I spent so long around that depth was that I DIDN'T HAVE ANY SPEED!

Seriously, I was on normal speed with no potions or staves of speed so every unkilled unique was lethal. So I decided to hang around until I found boots or ring of speed, or both. I was wearing 2 RoDams and cycling through pairs of standard magic boots so the slots were going begging. But before I found either I recalled into a 'cavern' level in the middle of two packs of hounds (plasma and hell) and died pretty quickly (no scrolls of tele, both staves of tele incinerated immediately and my recall method was a ruddy charging randart, naturally).

My point is this (and there is one, I promise): Randarts are not broken just because my delicious cloak was a theoretical possibility. If I'd been playing standart I wouldn't have been in the situation I was in because I would probably have had Dal-i-Thallies or whatever. Equally, if I had found that cloak, I would probably have been stuck wielding a lead-filled mace (+2,+2) that activates to restore charisma (like that shield I posted on this thread a while back). If playing randart you have to accept that your game will be a lot more, well, random!

And I like it!

Derakon May 20, 2013 00:25

Oh sure, I'm not trying to claim that randarts are broken just because there exist broken randarts. There are standarts that are broken too. I mean really, +10 speed in a bow slot? We just think that's normal. :)

MattB May 20, 2013 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 80337)
Oh sure, I'm not trying to claim that randarts are broken just because there exist broken randarts. There are standarts that are broken too. I mean really, +10 speed in a bow slot? We just think that's normal. :)

HaHa - Good point! :)

And I mean really, a pair of gauntlets with rfire, rdisen and FrAct - that's just waaaay overpowered...oh no...hang on a minute...

Estie May 20, 2013 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnate (Post 80330)
Gondricam must be within 20% of 394 or the generator would have rejected the randart. The disparity arises from Gondricam's huge AC bonus being turned into speed. Nobody thinks the AC is anywhere near as good as the speed, because it's in a weapon slot. In my last overhaul of the object power calculation, I implemented per-slot power for most things, but not for AC.

Separately, large speed bonuses are *still* underrated, but I gave up trying to deal with that after four years of trying different approaches. As soon as they're properly rated, everything else breaks.

The value of large speed bonuses depends various factors. First off, lets assume we have an endgame kit and the artifact isnt the first one found - in the latter case the value becomes near infinite, but that is also true for a RoS - so assuming the "normal" setup is 2 big speed boosters, ring and boots, having +10 speed on a cloak possibly frees a ring slot. This is however not true if the speed bonus is on a weapon _unless_ its a godly weapon already without the speed (Ringil). I find weapons with big speed boosts fairly often, but hardly ever use them.

Assuming that cloak frees a ring slot, conceivably it would be used for a damage ring instead - lets say +10 damage (10 speed is on the low end for endgame rings), which means the cloak would be worth about the same as one with (+8, +13) and no speed.

As for the dex boost, the value of that depends very much on race/class played AND other artifacts in the kit. Lets see. The combat stats - str dex con - have about the same importance to get to the cap. A typical randart has maybe a +3 bonus, so lets call that 1 point. You want on average 2 boosts to max out, so the +10 dex would be worth 2 points - same as +6 dex in this estimation.

With con ring and damage ring both being used, they should have about the same value, so lets add another +15 damage (the maximum ring value, since +6 is also the maximum con boost on a ring), so our cloak would become (+8, +27) with lightning resistance :)

The reason why this looks so much more powerful than Gondricam is that there are 50 artifact weapons but only 5 cloaks. Imagine it being the other way round - 50 cloaks, but only 5 weapons - and also lets assume there are no ego items for the moment - now pick 5 random weapons from the standard set, and add 45 cloaks.

Under those conditions, chances are that Gondricam would end up in this thread while the cloak would be considered mediocre.

Timo Pietilä May 20, 2013 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattB (Post 80336)
Ah, but here's the thing about randarts - I never actually had it!
Yes, it's nominally pretty common, but I had been hanging around in the sixties for maybe 50 level generations and it didn't show up! Ironically, the reason that I spent so long around that depth was that I DIDN'T HAVE ANY SPEED!


If you can survive dlvl 60 without any speed you can survive dlvl 90. Next time you should dive to native RoS depth ASAP in that case. RoS is native at dlvl 75. Many better objects deep in that depth. Trickery is native at 70.

Timo Pietilä May 20, 2013 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estie (Post 80339)
The reason why this looks so much more powerful than Gondricam is that there are 50 artifact weapons but only 5 cloaks.

Gondricam is just a spiced up version of Defender ego, and not even very good one at that. It doesn't matter how many artifacts there are if the comparison can be made to weak ego. This is like getting Ringil-equal weapon from Thorongil. +10 speed is endgame-quality, no matter which slot it appears (well, maybe ring slot RoS can beat it if speed is only thing in it)

Malatar May 20, 2013 08:31

1 Attachment(s)
When my mage found this, I knew I was doomed... That extra radius 1 light is completely OP.

the Lucerne Hammer 'Herenya' (3d5) (+13,+40) [+19] <+2, +1>
Found lying on the floor in a vault at 4500 feet (level 90).

+2 stealth, attack speed.
Slays evil creatures.
*Slays* demons, undead.
Provides immunity to acid.
Provides resistance to cold, dark.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Slows your metabolism. Speeds regeneration.

When activated it restores all your stats and your experience points.
Takes 569 to 766 turns to recharge at your current speed.

6.0 blows/round.
Average damage/round: 549.6 vs. evil creatures, 729 vs. demons, 729 vs undead, and 489.6 vs others.

Radius 1 light.

Estie May 20, 2013 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timo Pietilä (Post 80344)
Gondricam is just a spiced up version of Defender ego, and not even very good one at that. It doesn't matter how many artifacts there are if the comparison can be made to weak ego. This is like getting Ringil-equal weapon from Thorongil. +10 speed is endgame-quality, no matter which slot it appears (well, maybe ring slot RoS can beat it if speed is only thing in it)

Yeah thats why I was asking to assume no egos. Those mess up evaluation.

Speed +10 is not endgame quality on weapons. Spear (+10,+10) <+10> speed and nothing else is junk as soon as you have 1 other speed item +10. And such weapons are fairly common, I see them like every 2nd game.

In other slots, it becomes immediate consideration for the endgame kit, but isnt necessarily superior. For example, consider a game where you find a +10 speed helm. If you get speed boots, speed ring, you are likely to prefer an ESP hat over it, or a crown of might for the stats/sustains.

Estie May 20, 2013 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malatar (Post 80345)
When my mage found this, I knew I was doomed... That extra radius 1 light is completely OP.

the Lucerne Hammer 'Herenya' (3d5) (+13,+40) [+19] <+2, +1>
Found lying on the floor in a vault at 4500 feet (level 90).

+2 stealth, attack speed.
Slays evil creatures.
*Slays* demons, undead.
Provides immunity to acid.
Provides resistance to cold, dark.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Slows your metabolism. Speeds regeneration.

When activated it restores all your stats and your experience points.
Takes 569 to 766 turns to recharge at your current speed.

6.0 blows/round.
Average damage/round: 549.6 vs. evil creatures, 729 vs. demons, 729 vs undead, and 489.6 vs others.

Radius 1 light.


Thats a nice one, particularly for a mage.

MattB May 20, 2013 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timo Pietilä (Post 80343)
If you can survive dlvl 60 without any speed you can survive dlvl 90. Next time you should dive to native RoS depth ASAP in that case. RoS is native at dlvl 75. Many better objects deep in that depth. Trickery is native at 70.

Ah, my mistake. I thought RoS was native in the sixties - probably because that's when they start showing up in chests and vaults. The problem was the uniques, not the general mobs (well, apart from the plasma and hell hounds that did for me in the end :mad:). As a HT warrior with no fire immunity I had no reliable tele other options (7 rods, fail rate of 17%).

Any how, he's dead and gone but his son, Ran Dunt XVI, is on the way down to level 60 to find that sodding cloak his Daddy missed!

P.S. Thanks for the advice

Pete Mack May 20, 2013 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattB (Post 80348)
Ah, my mistake. I thought RoS was native in the sixties - probably because that's when they start showing up in chests and vaults. The problem was the uniques, not the general mobs (well, apart from the plasma and hell hounds that did for me in the end :mad:). As a HT warrior with no fire immunity I had no reliable tele other options (7 rods, fail rate of 17%).

Tele Other won't help with Plasma hounds, no matter what... And Tele other isn't really an escape; it's a highly effective evasion technique.
Also: no matter how many rods you have, you should still carry wands of Tele other. The fail rate is much lower.

MattB May 20, 2013 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Mack (Post 80351)
Tele Other won't help with Plasma hounds, no matter what... And Tele other isn't really an escape; it's a highly effective evasion technique.
Also: no matter how many rods you have, you should still carry wands of Tele other. The fail rate is much lower.

Couldn't agree more, Pete. I was talking about tele other with respect to avoiding the uniques I couldn't fight due to having no speed (rather than the hounds that killed me while I was hunting for speed). I usually do carry wands and rods of TA, but I think I had dropped the wands to carry some extra consumables back to the stockpile I always build in my home, and almost never use (one winner, twice died to Mr M, maybe a hundred attempts in the last two years that never got that far). Needless to say, having dropped them they disappeared from the dungeon thereafter...

Philip May 20, 2013 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estie (Post 80346)
Yeah thats why I was asking to assume no egos. Those mess up evaluation.

Speed +10 is not endgame quality on weapons. Spear (+10,+10) <+10> speed and nothing else is junk as soon as you have 1 other speed item +10. And such weapons are fairly common, I see them like every 2nd game.

In other slots, it becomes immediate consideration for the endgame kit, but isnt necessarily superior. For example, consider a game where you find a +10 speed helm. If you get speed boots, speed ring, you are likely to prefer an ESP hat over it, or a crown of might for the stats/sustains.

I would happily use a spear 1d6 +10 speed with at least three classes. Mages, rangers, priests don't have to, but can use the weapon slot as a statstick. Mages might be better off doing so, what with Morgy's max damage being melee. A warrior I would briefly consider just shooting stuff with, with a rogue I would probably use it for a long time and not kill stuff much. A paladin, that would be worse. I would discard it as soon as I had +10 speed from somewhere else. Similarly with the warrior, unless I have a high to_dam and extra might or shots bow/crossbow. Then I'd wait for +20 speed or an excellent weapon.
As far as helms go, I probably would use ESP over speed if I already had +10, but ESP always seems to appear on at least two or three randart slots, and then there are cloaks of Magi and such. A helm of serenity would be tempting if I lacked one or two of the things it gives, in such a case I would probably use one.

Timo Pietilä May 21, 2013 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip (Post 80359)
A paladin, that would be worse. I would discard it as soon as I had +10 speed from somewhere else. Similarly with the warrior, unless I have a high to_dam and extra might or shots bow/crossbow. Then I'd wait for +20 speed or an excellent weapon.

Thing with that weapon is that it allows you to use a huge variety of things other than speed, RoDam instead of RoS for example. +10 speed over zero speed is also +100% increase in damage. +20 speed over +10 is 50% more damage and +30 speed over +20 speed is 30% more damage (approx).

It also allows you to move same amount as that damage before monsters get turn and can wake up, so it also helps stealth same amount. Speed trumps (almost) everything else until you hit +30 or so (+20 for those that have easy access to haste).

For classes that do not have access to easy haste that weapon would be rather obvious choice at least until you find something a lot better while still at speed that is manageable.

For armor that is not boots speed is huge bonus. That is why DSM of Speed got removed from game. Everybody ended up using one if they found one. +10 in cloak is better than any normal artifact set armor except Feanor. I would probably use that over Bladeturner-equal cloak in endgame (that is unless I have +30 speed from other obvious choices, like Ringil & Feanor & Nenya & Vilya, and even then it is still tempting)

Magnate May 24, 2013 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timo Pietilä (Post 80398)
Thing with that weapon is that it allows you to use a huge variety of things other than speed, RoDam instead of RoS for example. +10 speed over zero speed is also +100% increase in damage. +20 speed over +10 is 50% more damage and +30 speed over +20 speed is 30% more damage (approx).

It also allows you to move same amount as that damage before monsters get turn and can wake up, so it also helps stealth same amount. Speed trumps (almost) everything else until you hit +30 or so (+20 for those that have easy access to haste).

For classes that do not have access to easy haste that weapon would be rather obvious choice at least until you find something a lot better while still at speed that is manageable.

For armor that is not boots speed is huge bonus. That is why DSM of Speed got removed from game. Everybody ended up using one if they found one. +10 in cloak is better than any normal artifact set armor except Feanor. I would probably use that over Bladeturner-equal cloak in endgame (that is unless I have +30 speed from other obvious choices, like Ringil & Feanor & Nenya & Vilya, and even then it is still tempting)

This. This is why rating speed is so hard. The value of speed is nonlinear, and its precisely type of nonlinearity is slot-dependent.

Nick May 24, 2013 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnate (Post 80595)
This. This is why rating speed is so hard. The value of speed is nonlinear, and its precisely type of nonlinearity is slot-dependent.

Indeed. And because of this, I think that (despite, I'm afraid, all the work you've put into it) designing randarts by overall object power is doomed to failure. I think the O-style micromanagement by slot is a better approach.

Having said that, though, V randarts still work pretty well. And it's possible that you could add per-slot restrictions/modifications that might improve things.

Here's me, sitting on the fence again.

LostTemplar May 24, 2013 10:33

Object power is OK, however it should then be translated into object rarity, using some function, which should depend on slot. Gaussian definitely should work. Simply compute means and sigmas for standard artifacts (for every slot) and use the same values for randart distributions. Remove 'based on' stuff.

Magnate May 24, 2013 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 80600)
Indeed. And because of this, I think that (despite, I'm afraid, all the work you've put into it) designing randarts by overall object power is doomed to failure. I think the O-style micromanagement by slot is a better approach.

Having said that, though, V randarts still work pretty well. And it's possible that you could add per-slot restrictions/modifications that might improve things.

Here's me, sitting on the fence again.

I don't see why the approaches can't be combined. Overall object power has many uses other than randarts, and seems a sensible approximation as long as we accept that it can never be perfect. But "micromanagement by slot" sounds like it would lead to some improvements.

I did implement per-slot ratings/restrictions/mods, but I can no longer remember what made it into V, what's in v4 and what's only possible in Pyrel. Pyrel is definitely the most advanced/flexible system, and Pyrel's randarts will I hope combine the best of both approaches.

OOD Town drunk May 25, 2013 22:40

This is possibly the best randart I've found so far:

Code:

the Ring of Estelon <+3, +1>
    Dropped by Maeglin, the Traitor of Gondolin at 4350 feet (level
    87).
   
    +3 strength, intelligence, wisdom, dexterity, constitution,
    charisma, speed.
    Provides immunity to acid.
    Provides resistance to lightning, fire, cold, dark, sound.
    Provides protection from confusion.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
    Speeds regeneration.  Prevents paralysis.  Grants telepathy.
    Grants the ability to see invisible things. 
   
    When aimed, it creates a large frost ball with damage 200.
    Takes 254 to 312 turns to recharge at your current speed.
    Your chance of success is 90.7%
   
    Radius 1 light.


MattB May 30, 2013 12:21

Er...looking at the min/max depths, can this ever exist?

the Small Metal Shield of Avatarad [5,-21]
------------------------------------------
Cursed.
Provides resistance to acid.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Drains experience.


Min Level 12, Max Level 4, Generation chance 8, Power 5, 6.0 lbs
Based on Berúthiel.

Maybe in a chest on dlvl 2-4?

(Not that I'm overly concerned to be missing out on this little beauty!).

Magnate May 30, 2013 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattB (Post 80829)
Er...looking at the min/max depths, can this ever exist?

the Small Metal Shield of Avatarad [5,-21]
------------------------------------------
Cursed.
Provides resistance to acid.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Drains experience.


Min Level 12, Max Level 4, Generation chance 8, Power 5, 6.0 lbs
Based on Berúthiel.

Maybe in a chest on dlvl 2-4?

(Not that I'm overly concerned to be missing out on this little beauty!).

No, I don't think it can. I didn't realise that could happen - good spot. (To reassure others, I don't think it could happen to non-cursed randarts.)

Thraalbee June 24, 2013 12:37

7d7 on a Short Sword is highly unusual, isn't it?. However without *slay* or brand it is not overpowered, just odd.

Code:

w) the Short Sword of Athron (7d7) (+12,+10) <+7> {!d!x!v}
    Found lying on the floor in a vault at 2700 feet (level 54).
   
    +7 speed.
    Provides resistance to cold.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
   
    Combat info:
    6.0 blows/round.
    Average damage/round: 324.6.


ranger jeff June 24, 2013 16:58

Hey, you may get *Really* lucky and find a shield or something that grants you a brand or slay. The +7 speed on that is enough to make it great, but being only (+10,+12) is kind of weak. Without the brand/slay, 7d7+12 averages the same as 5d5+25. If you have other gear that together gets you up to (+30,+30) somehow I might stick with it for a while, you'll average 300dpr or so against everything, and you'll move faster than most monsters... if you also don't need your weapon slot to cover resists or something.

And I've seen, IIRC, several 6d7's, at least one 7d7, and I think... maybe it was a dagger like 11d4. 9d8 sounds familiar, too, but that's probably Grond. So probably not that rare.

Thraalbee June 25, 2013 14:06

Thranduil++
 
Just picked up a slightly improved Thranduil for my Kobold Fighter. Sweet!
Code:

o) the Metal Cap 'Elebriel' [3,+13] <+4>
    Dropped by The Phoenix at 3150 feet (level 63).
   
    +4 strength, intelligence, dexterity, constitution.
    +20% to searching.
    Provides immunity to acid.
    Provides resistance to lightning.
    Provides protection from blindness.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
    Grants telepathy.  Grants the ability to see invisible things. 
   
    When activated, it grants temporary resistance to fire and cold,
    cures 200HP, but also makes you hallucinate wildly.
    Takes 199 to 220 turns to recharge at your current speed.
    Your chance of success is 89.3%


MattB June 25, 2013 14:09

Eek! Nice!
(And a hat that makes you hallucinate on demand is pretty cool.
Think how much money you'll save on mushrooms at parties.)

PowerWyrm June 26, 2013 13:20

Slightly improved Thranduil? Sounds to me like a massively improved Dor-Lomin!

Estie June 26, 2013 18:16

Its missing pconfusion.

PowerWyrm July 19, 2013 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by fizzix (Post 60741)
My first artifact in an iron man game:

Code:

The Morning Star of Elithar (2d6) (+5, +9)

Dropped by Ugluk, the Uruk at 1650 feet (level 33)

Cannot be harmed by acid, fire, electricity or cold

I wonder if it was based off of Melkor or something.

I would consider this as a flaw/bug. Same if you find a randart armor part with only +AC. The randart engine should ensure that weapons and armor parts get at least one ability, even if it's feather falling or similar crap.

MattB July 19, 2013 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm (Post 82592)
I would consider this as a flaw/bug. Same if you find a randart armor part with only +AC. The randart engine should ensure that weapons and armor parts get at least one ability, even if it's feather falling or similar crap.

Well, it can't be harmed by the elements. Which is handy...ish.

Magnate July 20, 2013 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm (Post 82592)
I would consider this as a flaw/bug. Same if you find a randart armor part with only +AC. The randart engine should ensure that weapons and armor parts get at least one ability, even if it's feather falling or similar crap.

That's going to result in an awful lot of things getting Feather Falling (or +1 CHA or +1 Searching).

This happens when the base item is significantly 'better' (in terms of damage dice or base AC) than the standart's base item, so there's not much room for abilities. Personally I'd rather have +hit/dam on a weapon than FF or +1 stat.

We could address this by narrowing the range of allowable base items - at the moment they're allowed to take up to 85% (IIRC) of the available power. We could lower this limit to something like 60%. My instinct is that this would make randart generation take noticeably longer (many more rejected items and sets), but it might not.

Derakon July 20, 2013 22:26

Remember also the Glaive of Pain, which has no special abilities on it besides doing a crapload of damage. I don't think randarts necessarily have to do anything beyond have pluses if they don't want to.

ranger jeff July 21, 2013 23:51

Yeah, as said, just the default artifact property of immune to the elements is great to have early game, so your plusses don't go away.

scud July 23, 2013 01:12

Not a randart, but Dave XXXI was so excited to find some purple headgear at 500' that he IDed it prior to wearing...

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/4103/pp0l.jpg

Dave is feeling rather let down.

Timo Pietilä July 23, 2013 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by scud (Post 82653)
Not a randart, but Dave XXXI was so excited to find some purple headgear at 500' that he IDed it prior to wearing...

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/4103/pp0l.jpg

Dave is feeling rather let down.

It ignores acid and is light, so if you enchant it up it could be useful.

Bagplant August 8, 2013 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnate (Post 82614)
That's going to result in an awful lot of things getting Feather Falling (or +1 CHA or +1 Searching).

This happens when the base item is significantly 'better' (in terms of damage dice or base AC) than the standart's base item, so there's not much room for abilities. Personally I'd rather have +hit/dam on a weapon than FF or +1 stat.

We could address this by narrowing the range of allowable base items - at the moment they're allowed to take up to 85% (IIRC) of the available power. We could lower this limit to something like 60%. My instinct is that this would make randart generation take noticeably longer (many more rejected items and sets), but it might not.

I would also call this a bug I think. There are definitely examples in the standart set that are comparable to a normal ego item in power (the -thancs for example are basically just branded weapons with an extra damage die and activation). However this one would pseudo-id as 'good' if it were a non-artifact and I can't think of any in the basic set for which that's true. (The Glaive doesn't count as the huge boost to damage dice and +damage makes it out of the ordinary - compare DSM of craftsmanship or launchers of accuracy/power).

If the base item can take up to 85% of the power calculation, that seems way too high and more or less guarantees that you will see artifacts of this type. (I wonder what the maximum base item percentage is in the standart set? Well below 85%, I'd bet).

Nomad August 20, 2013 18:18

The first artefact my warrior found so far this game:

Code:

the Whip of Anilmar (3d3) (-14,-7) [-24] {cursed}
Dropped by Nár, the Dwarf at 1000 feet (level 20).

Heavily cursed.
*Slays* demons.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Aggravates creatures nearby.


scud August 20, 2013 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomad (Post 83913)
Code:

the Whip of Anilmar (3d3) (-14,-7) [-24] {cursed}
Dropped by Nár, the Dwarf at 1000 feet (level 20).

Heavily cursed.
*Slays* demons.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Aggravates creatures nearby.


And you IDed it before use?!? Good work. I've only encountered a single heavily cursed randart in 3.4.1. Can't remember what it did, but the only viable solution was suicide.

Nomad August 20, 2013 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by scud (Post 83916)
And you IDed it before use?!?

Well, fortunately the {cursed} status showed on pickup. (I'm playing 3.5 dev.) Though the character managed to die of stupidity a few levels later anyway.

AnonymousHero August 20, 2013 20:30

... but hey! It *slays* demons! That's gotta be worth something, right? :)

scud August 20, 2013 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonymousHero (Post 83929)
... but hey! It *slays* demons! That's gotta be worth something, right? :)

I've never considered how slays, *slays*, and elemental brand To Dam numbers are calculated. Would the *slay* on something that's at –7 increase or reduce damage?

Derakon August 20, 2013 23:38

Slays multiply the dice damage, and have no effect on pluses. This weapon would deal 15d3 - 7 damage to demons, which honestly isn't too bad...

Nomad August 21, 2013 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 83949)
Slays multiply the dice damage, and have no effect on pluses. This weapon would deal 15d3 - 7 damage to demons, which honestly isn't too bad...

As I recall, it would have given my High Elf warrior something like 99.8 damage vs. demons.

...And 8 vs. everything else.

emulord August 21, 2013 01:24

At least its a good sink for Enchant scrolls.

scud August 21, 2013 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomad (Post 83950)
As I recall, it would have given my High Elf warrior something like 99.8 damage vs. demons.

...And 8 vs. everything else.

Heh. Be grateful it wasn't an orc slayer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by emulord (Post 83951)
At least its a good sink for Enchant scrolls.

I've never stuck around long enough to break a *heavy curse*. Do regular Enchants have any chance of breaking one? Is it currently a dice roll to break, or is it an incremental decursification process?

Timo Pietilä August 21, 2013 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by scud (Post 83973)
I've never stuck around long enough to break a *heavy curse*. Do regular Enchants have any chance of breaking one? Is it currently a dice roll to break, or is it an incremental decursification process?

Every scroll has chance to break the curse. Even when actual enchantment failed. Also priest "dispel curse" breaks heavy curses (dungeon book spell, not the "remove curse" -version). Those spells have been removed from 3.4, but they are in 3.3 (I think).

Nomad September 1, 2013 00:40

The damage is too low for my late-game warrior to get much use out of this now, but otherwise wow:

Code:

the Short Sword of Fearad (1d7) (+6,+16) <+4>
Found lying on the floor in a vault at 3800 feet (level 76).

+4 dexterity.
Slays giants, dragons.
Provides immunity to lightning, cold.
Provides resistance to disenchantment.
Provides protection from fear.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Grants telepathy.


MattB September 1, 2013 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomad (Post 84425)
The damage is too low for my late-game warrior to get much use out of this now, but otherwise wow:

Code:

the Short Sword of Fearad (1d7) (+6,+16) <+4>
Found lying on the floor in a vault at 3800 feet (level 76).

+4 dexterity.
Slays giants, dragons.
Provides immunity to lightning, cold.
Provides resistance to disenchantment.
Provides protection from fear.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Grants telepathy.


immelec, immcold AND ESP. Yes, wow!

MattB September 20, 2013 13:41

It's not THAT stupid.

(But it is probably the best name ever for a heroic sword of yore.)

Code:

 
t) the Main Gauche 'Moron' (2d5) (+8,+5)
    Dropped by Lagduf, the Snaga at 1350 feet (level 27).
   
    Slays orcs.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
    Grants the ability to see invisible things. 
   
    Combat info:
    1.1 blows/round.
    With +3 STR and +0 DEX you would get 1.3 blows
    With +0 STR and +2 DEX you would get 1.3 blows
    Average damage/round: 39.4 vs. orcs, and 24.9 vs. others.


PowerWyrm September 20, 2013 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattB (Post 85168)
It's not THAT stupid.

(But it is probably the best name ever for a heroic sword of yore.)

Code:

 
t) the Main Gauche 'Moron' (2d5) (+8,+5)
    Dropped by Lagduf, the Snaga at 1350 feet (level 27).
   
    Slays orcs.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
    Grants the ability to see invisible things. 
   
    Combat info:
    1.1 blows/round.
    With +3 STR and +0 DEX you would get 1.3 blows
    With +0 STR and +2 DEX you would get 1.3 blows
    Average damage/round: 39.4 vs. orcs, and 24.9 vs. others.


I find the name appropriate! Lagduf is indeed a moron for carrying a blade that can slay him...

Nomad September 27, 2013 21:57

Maybe not the greatest weapon overall, but I have to say I blinked a little bit at that damage bonus.

Code:

the Lucerne Hammer 'Mithlor' (2d5) (+9,+32) [+2] <+1>
    Found lying on the floor in a vault at 1850 feet (level 37).
   
    +1 constitution.
    Slays evil creatures, trolls.
    *Slays* demons.
    Provides resistance to cold.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
    Grants the ability to see invisible things. 
   
    Combat info:
    3.5 blows/round.
    With +1 STR and +0 DEX you would get 3.8 blows
    With +0 STR and +2 DEX you would get 3.8 blows
    Average damage/round: 232.7 vs. evil creatures, 255.6 vs. trolls,
    301.3 vs. demons, and 209.9 vs. others.


Nomad September 28, 2013 12:33

Same game, a little later:

Code:

the Golden Crown of Uronna [0,+12] <+3>
    Found lying on the floor in a vault at 2300 feet (level 46).
   
    +3 strength.
    Provides immunity to cold.
    Provides resistance to shards.
    Provides protection from blindness.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
    Grants telepathy.

Pretty hard to do better than that for artefact headgear.

scud September 28, 2013 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomad (Post 85392)
Pretty hard to do better than that for artefact headgear.

Chuck in fire immunity, pConf, and pStun and you've got a deal!

Kosonen September 29, 2013 15:09

My hElf rogue is already dead and (probably not) buried, which doesn't come as a huge surprise, considering that RNG decided to give these two pieces of crap as my first two artifacts:

Code:

the Metal Cap 'Hundi' [3,+11]
-----------------------------
 Provides resistance to cold, dark.
 Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
 Grants the ability to see invisible things. 
 

Min Level 20, Max Level 52, Generation chance 18, Power 66, 2.5 lbs
Based on Gorlim.

Code:

the Pair of Leather Boots of Galroth [2,+17]
--------------------------------------------
 Provides resistance to fire, cold.
 Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
 Sustains wisdom.
 

Min Level 19, Max Level 44, Generation chance 23, Power 55, 1.8 lbs
Based on Pauraegen.

:rolleyes:


On an entirely different note, this thing would've been lovely (and fun! w/ the aggro) for a powerdiver:

Code:

the Augmented Chain Mail 'Agondin' (-2) [42,+27] <+3>
-----------------------------------------------------
 +3 strength, intelligence, wisdom, dexterity, constitution, stealth,
 infravision, tunneling, speed.
 Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, poison, light, dark, sound,
 nether, chaos, disenchantment.
 Provides protection from fear, blindness, stunning.
 Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
 Sustains strength.
 Sustains your life force.  Aggravates creatures nearby. 
 
 When activated, it teleports you five levels down.
 Takes 155 to 209 turns to recharge.
 

Min Level 100, Max Level 127, Generation chance 1, Power 775, 27.0 lbs
Based on Bladeturner.

Too bad with the Min Level, though. Not much use for the activation when it's finally obtainable.

scud September 29, 2013 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kosonen (Post 85415)
Code:

the Augmented Chain Mail 'Agondin' (-2) [42,+27] <+3>
-----------------------------------------------------
 +3 strength, intelligence, wisdom, dexterity, constitution, stealth,
 infravision, tunneling, speed.


Wot no charisma?

debo September 29, 2013 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by scud (Post 85417)
Wot no charisma?

It's ok but +3 attacks would have made it better imo

Kosonen September 29, 2013 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by debo (Post 85418)
It's ok but +3 attacks would have made it better imo

I'll take +3 charisma over +3 attacks any day. :mad: (It's 3.5-dev-somethingorother, so no charisma anywhere.)

That's not even close being the best Bladeturner-variant on this thread, but I just love those random activations. I'm quite cautious and slow player, but if I'd find an artifact with Deep Descent as an activation, I'd spam that bastard like there's no tomorrow.

Nomad October 1, 2013 11:36

Very nice randart set in my last game, which went on to be my second ever winner. Managed to get three immunities and all protections and resistances covered apart from chaos (and feather falling, tragically), and this was the weapon I was wielding against Morgoth:

Code:

the Mace of Disruption of Aradamlor (6d8) (+5,+20) <+2>
-------------------------------------------------------
 +2 infravision.
 +10% to searching.
 Slays evil creatures, undead, orcs, trolls.
 *Slays* demons, undead.
 Branded with weak venom, lightning, flames.
 Provides resistance to acid, lightning.
 Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
 Slows your metabolism.  Prevents paralysis.  Sustains your life force.  Grants
 the ability to see invisible things. 
 

Min Level 84, Max Level 127, Generation chance 3, Power 586, 40.0 lbs
Based on Deathwreaker.


MattB October 3, 2013 18:13

I see your Mace of Disruption, and I give you...
Code:

the Mace of Disruption 'Belfaur' (5d8) (+9,+44) [+28] <+3>
----------------------------------------------------------
+3 intelligence, wisdom.
+15% to searching.
Slays animals, evil creatures, undead, orcs, giants.
*Slays* dragons, demons, undead.
Branded with frost.
Provides immunity to acid, fire.
Provides resistance to poison, dark, nexus, nether.
Provides protection from blindness.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Blessed by the gods.  Prevents paralysis. 

When activated, it raises your dexterity at the expense of a random attribute.
Takes 205 to 325 turns to recharge.

Needless to say, I didn't actually find it.

Derakon October 3, 2013 18:23

Wow, with 5 blows/round and no other sources of +damage, you'd be doing 5*(10d8+44) ~= 445 damage/round vs. evil. Which doesn't sound like much, but you'd assuredly have more +damage somewhere on you (if nothing else, your STR score should be good for another +15 or so).

The dual immunities, useful resists, and other abilities are just icing on the cake, really.

MattB October 3, 2013 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 85459)
Wow, with 5 blows/round and no other sources of +damage, you'd be doing 5*(10d8+44) ~= 445 damage/round vs. evil. Which doesn't sound like much, but you'd assuredly have more +damage somewhere on you (if nothing else, your STR score should be good for another +15 or so).

The dual immunities, useful resists, and other abilities are just icing on the cake, really.

And don't forget the fact that it's a blessed blunt weapon, which is handy.
And check out the activation!

Estie October 3, 2013 20:51

Since we compare MoD lengths, lemme show mine:

a) the Mace of Disruption of Oiontana (11d8) (+13,+13) {!k}
Found lying on the floor in a vault at 4900 feet (level 98).

Slays animals, undead.
*Slays* demons.
Branded with weak acid.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.

Combat info:
7.0 blows/round.
Average damage/round: 1491 vs. animals, 1491 vs. creatures not
resistant to acid, 1958.6 vs. undead, 2894.5 vs. demons, and
1023.4 vs. others.

Alas, no slay evil, and also its Feanor not Deathwreaker. It started out with crappy damage enchantment, I got it up to +13 with scrolls.

Without the +2 off weapon blows, it would be about 1065 acid, 1477 demon, 730 other.

Derakon October 3, 2013 22:02

You don't need Slay Evil when you have 11d8 base damage dice...

Timo Pietilä October 4, 2013 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 85466)
You don't need Slay Evil when you have 11d8 base damage dice...

Since normal MoD dice is 5d8 that's 2x slay everything and then some.

MattB October 4, 2013 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estie (Post 85465)
Since we compare MoD lengths, lemme show mine:

Alright, I'll admit it: your one's bigger than my one.:mad:

Timo Pietilä October 4, 2013 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estie (Post 85465)
2894.5 vs. demons

Balrog of Moria: Feel my wrath!
You: *WHACK*
Balrog: That's just unfair. <dies>

Philip October 4, 2013 11:02

Yeah, the demon damage is nice, but you can't ignore the Acid Brand. Hi sauron!

PowerWyrm October 4, 2013 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estie (Post 85465)
Without the +2 off weapon blows, it would be about 1065 acid, 1477 demon, 730 other.

That's sick. What does provide +2 EA? Gloves?

Timo Pietilä October 4, 2013 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip (Post 85473)
Yeah, the demon damage is nice, but you can't ignore the Acid Brand. Hi sauron!

When Rings of Acid still gave you brand I usually used that and MoD or BoC of Fury +2 against Sauron. 1000+ damage was not uncommon even with Priest. Against Morgoth there was some competition from other weapons, but not much (fury weapons had +25+ to_dam usually).

High-dice extra blow weapons can still be rather good even without any other bonuses, and MoD has inherit slay undead.

Estie October 4, 2013 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm (Post 85474)
That's sick. What does provide +2 EA? Gloves?

Body armor, and it was one of the big ones (deathwreaker or bladeturner base, dont recall which).

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=14911

Its a project where some character died, I checked the artifact list and made a new one with same artifacts, playing till I found all the goodies. In a normal playthrough you dont get such a setup :P

Nonetheless, it was fun.

donalde October 7, 2013 09:24

My HT Ranger (clvl 28, dlvl 30) was wearing long bow of power (+16, +15), doing decent damage with 2 shots / round. Then Mim dropped this game changer:

Code:

i) the Wicker Shield of Idrimlaid [2,+16] <+2>
    Dropped by Mîm, Betrayer of Turin at 1500 feet (level 30).
   
    +2 shooting speed.
    Provides resistance to fire, cold.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
    Prevents paralysis.

I think that is best shield I have seen for ranger...

PowerWyrm October 8, 2013 12:36

Am I the only one to think that extra shots on anything other than a shooter feels really WRONG???

donalde October 8, 2013 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm (Post 85520)
Am I the only one to think that extra shots on anything other than a shooter feels really WRONG???

I think extra shots and extra blows should come only from rings or from gloves

Derakon October 8, 2013 15:05

Well, that's random artifacts for you. They're random. Off-weapon blows, and off-launcher shots, are both really powerful, though, which means that the artifact ought not to have many other abilities even if it's based on a powerful standard artifact. Frankly I'm kind of surprised we're still seeing +2 shots on randarts.

donalde October 8, 2013 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon (Post 85528)
Well, that's random artifacts for you. They're random. Off-weapon blows, and off-launcher shots, are both really powerful, though, which means that the artifact ought not to have many other abilities even if it's based on a powerful standard artifact. Frankly I'm kind of surprised we're still seeing +2 shots on randarts.

I play angband-v3.5-dev-443-gc244371, if that has anything to do with this issue.

Estie October 9, 2013 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by donalde (Post 85523)
I think extra shots and extra blows should come only from rings or from gloves

I understand the feeling, however things like that make for a boring itemisation mini-game.
Currently, even with randarts the optimal setups look very much alike:
1 speed ring, 1 damage ring, speed boots, whatever damage mods you can get in other slots while maintaining vitals such as ESP or poison resistance.

ESP can come from many sources (ego items, not artifacts; ESP in otherwise useful artifacts is rare) so that makes for somewhat of a variation. Id prefer much, much more of it though rather than less.

Nomad October 17, 2013 16:37

Code:

a) the Lance 'Rialdir' (6d8) (+11,+15)
    Dropped by Orfax, Son of Boldor at 500 feet (level 10).
   
    Provides resistance to nexus.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
    Grants the ability to see invisible things. 
   
    Combat info:
    1.1 blows/round.
    With +5 STR and +0 DEX you would get 1.3 blows
    With +0 STR and +1 DEX you would get 1.3 blows
    Average damage/round: 57.

...That's a lotta damage dice to have on a weapon dropped at 500'.

Timo Pietilä October 17, 2013 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomad (Post 85747)
Code:

a) the Lance 'Rialdir' (6d8) (+11,+15)
    Dropped by Orfax, Son of Boldor at 500 feet (level 10).

...That's a lotta damage dice to have on a weapon dropped at 500'.

Too bad it's Lance. It takes some time to get stats high enough for that to beat lighter weapons.

fruviad October 17, 2013 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm (Post 85170)
I find the name appropriate! Lagduf is indeed a moron for carrying a blade that can slay him...

Not stupid at all. If he's carrying it, nobody can use it against him!

Estie January 15, 2014 15:34

the Pair of Mithril Shod Boots 'Archal' [8,+21] <+12>
-----------------------------------------------------
+12 stealth, speed.
Provides resistance to light, chaos.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Prevents paralysis. Aggravates creatures nearby.


Min Level 53, Max Level 127, Generation chance 2, Power 338, 4.0 lbs
Based on Doomcaller.


From the set of my latest character (who didnt find the boots...thankfully). I would call them cursed.


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