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-   -   A place for FA questions and ideas for improvement (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=887)

buzzkill July 30, 2008 02:19

A place for FA questions and ideas for improvement
 
No stupid questions from me today... however... not having played any other variants, I don't know if this already exists somewhere but...

I was just thinking that running away is a huge part of FA (at least for me) and yet, apart from potions of speed there is no really effective way to "run away" (or chase down a fleeing enemy).

I was thinking that much like the (S)earch command that toggles on/off one could create a toggle (F)lee command that would enable a character to possibly outrun a pursuing monster.

It would work something like this... when (F)lee is active any step taken in the same direction as the previous step would grant the player a +2 to speed. These pluses would be cumulative up to a maximum of twice the players normal speed. A change of direction of 45 degrees (from E to NE or SE for example) would reduce the players additional speed by 25%. A 90 degree turn (N to E or W) would reduce the additional speed by 50%. Any reversal of direction would reduce the players speed to normal.

In order to prevent players form using (F)lee constantly, I propose a limited field of vision, a 60% cone that illuminates the path only in the direction that the player is currently traveling (even during the daytime, reflecting the players panicked tunnel vision). This cones point of origin would be located a square or two behind the player so that he can still see his pursuer (if it's close enough). This would be a severe departure from the normal (almost infinite) field of vision and I feel would be a effective deterrent.

Thats the basic gist of it, just a few more things.
Reduced AC and/or increased enemies ability to hit you.
No picking up of items or treasure when fleeing.
No actions other than movement are possible (no wands of other nonsense).
Maybe a limited maximum duration of 50 turns of so.
I know that the (F) is already used for some command so maybe (R)un away or...

Any how, that's about it off the top of my head, any feedback would be appreciated.

Antoine July 30, 2008 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzkill (Post 9303)
No stupid questions from me today... however... not having played any other variants, I don't know if this already exists somewhere but...

I was just thinking that running away is a huge part of FA (at least for me) and yet, apart from potions of speed there is no really effective way to "run away" (or chase down a fleeing enemy).

I was thinking that much like the (S)earch command that toggles on/off one could create a toggle (F)lee command that would enable a character to possibly outrun a pursuing monster.

Couldn't you make it simpler - when you hit F, you get (say) +3 speed, but you cannot attack, fire, throw, or cast spells until you reach a new dungeon/wilderness level?

A.

HallucinationMushroom July 30, 2008 03:55

The first things I thought of when I saw this were T.o.M.E.'s explore speed and fighting tactic settings. You could change your explore speed from anywhere between slug-like to running each with advantages and disadvantages. I think max speed benefit from this was +3 if running was chosen. The fighting tactic ranged from coward to berserker which monkeyed with to-hit and to-damage and armor class if I recall correctly. I set mine to running/berserker and just like the character that image brings up, I only have the barest of knowledge about how it all works.

Edit: Oops I just checked a tome 223 character its max speed is +7 for running.

buzzkill July 30, 2008 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antoine (Post 9305)
Couldn't you make it simpler - when you hit F, you get (say) +3 speed, but you cannot attack, fire, throw, or cast spells until you reach a new dungeon/wilderness level?

A.

You would have to throw in no picking up of items, else I think it would be used nearly constantly, which would make the game much easier. Why fight, when you can simply skip around the monsters swiping all the level's treasures (something I do already at normal speed, or even better after 'becoming bat'). Also, I'd hate to activate something that can't be shut off, something that also restricts you from taking any other action aside from movement. It leaves you with no hope of recovering your courage and striking back, or simply changing your mind based on new circumstances or items found.

I'm trying to create something in which the negatives would outweigh the positives in such a way that it would only be used in a dire situation.

I'm not really worried about the 'simplicity' of it. I'm not a programmer, at least not a C programmer.

Mangojuice July 30, 2008 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzkill (Post 9312)
I'm trying to create something in which the negatives would outweigh the positives in such a way that it would only be used in a dire situation.

How about this? You can start "sprinting" at any time. You'll get +5 to your speed, for an unspecified, random duration. But when it runs out, you'll be paralyzed for a few turns, and then at -5 speed for a while after, during which time you can't start sprinting again. Thus, if you need to get away from something, you can sprint, but you had best get away from danger while your speed lasts, or you could be in bad trouble.

Also, you probably shouldn't be able to sprint at all if you are carrying enough to be slowed down.

Narvius July 30, 2008 16:16

Toggleable.
+a lot of Speed. A lot of means around 13-15.
0 Saving Throw.
0 Searching.
0 Stealth.
0 all the other skills whose names I don't remember.
No picking up.
When toggling off:
3 turns paralysis

Pete Mack July 30, 2008 17:18

I'm just not convinced by this.
1. Teleport Self and Teleport Level are easily available in FA.
2. A small speed boost won't save you. A big speed boost will make the wilderness too easy to cross. (Only a very few monsters will be able to follow you, much less catch you.)
3. The wilderness in FA is fun because it's so scary. If you are really struggling with escape, try an Assassin or Rogue with Unlight skill. (Generally some kind of Elf for best stealth.) Or play the race with native ESP.

Zikke July 30, 2008 17:38

I haven't had a lot of trouble getting away either (even on my other non-mage classes). And I agree the wilderness would be very easy to traverse with this option.

buzzkill July 31, 2008 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narvius (Post 9315)
Toggleable.
+a lot of Speed. A lot of means around 13-15.
0 Saving Throw.
0 Searching.
0 Stealth.
0 all the other skills whose names I don't remember.
No picking up.
When toggling off:
3 turns paralysis

I'm on board with the no saves, search, or stealth. Not sure about the para.

buzzkill July 31, 2008 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Mack (Post 9316)
1. Teleport Self and Teleport Level are easily available in FA.

I think you may be missing the big picture, or maybe I wasn't clear enough.

Once teleports and other magical means are available they would certainly be the way to go. I thought this would be particularly helpful in the early game, when gold and good items are scarce.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Mack (Post 9316)
2. A small speed boost won't save you. A big speed boost will make the wilderness too easy to cross. (Only a very few monsters will be able to follow you, much less catch you.)

It would be hard to build a substantial amount of speed. Basically, the only way to build speed is to move in a straight line, and that only gains you +2 (cumulative). Any change of direction reduces your speed. Trees, rubble, and other obstacles such as rocks, water and rubble would have to be avoided. Characters which can move freely through a given terrain type would be the exception to the rule. Dwarfs could (F)lee through rubble, elves through trees.

It's not going to necessarily save you. If you're contemplating (F)leeing, you've already gotten yourself into a bad spot. It just gives you an option, a chance, a bit of hope, and may add a little more strategy to the game. And just from a realism stand point, shouldn't you be able to RUN every once in a while.

Keep in mind, normally you would (F)lee from creatures that are faster than you. That means that it may take a couple of turns before you start to out pace them. If I was as fast as (or faster than) a pursuing monster, I certainly wouldn't (F)lee from it. There are too many negatives.

And having thought about it some more.. I feel that items should not be visible while fleeing, unless you happen to trip over something. And maybe your mapping memory shouldn't function either. After all, you're running for your life. You wouldn't be paying meticulous attention to the landmarks and you would hardly be interested in picking up trinkets along the way.

buzzkill July 31, 2008 02:20

And while I'm at it, no regeneration either (mana or HP).

buzzkill August 8, 2008 04:10

[FA] Do FA monsters with resistances also have vulnerabilities.

Does a monster which is resistant to cold (such as an ice elemental?) suffer an extra vulnerability to fire based attacks (such as fire bolts). I'm guessing from my limited experience the answer is "no". This would leave me to ask why not?

licker August 8, 2008 16:02

New to FA, and just dled 35a, but it seems that I cannot access certain things.

I can't get the macro screen to open for example, it just gives me the 'type ? for help'

Rydel August 8, 2008 16:29

If I recall correctly, in FA you access the macro screen through the options menu, not through @.

licker August 8, 2008 17:07

So it is, thanks!

Nick August 9, 2008 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzkill (Post 9423)
Does a monster which is resistant to cold (such as an ice elemental?) suffer an extra vulnerability to fire based attacks (such as fire bolts). I'm guessing from my limited experience the answer is "no". This would leave me to ask why not?

The answer is no (as it is for most if not all *bands) - with the exception of evil things being hit harder by holy attacks like Orb of Draining. Why is I guess mostly historical - the game is just balanced that way.

buzzkill August 13, 2008 05:23

Upgrading FA 3.4 to 3.5… When switching from the old to the new, apparently just replacing the executable doesn’t work. I’d like to continue playing as seamlessly as possible, carrying forward my scores, saves, ghosts, and preferences. I copied the bone, save, and user folders which seems to be working OK. Am I missing anything?

Also, is there any device or particular attribute to prevent or minimize ‘confusion’? I recently lost my best character (so far) due to confusion. While fighting Ariel, Queen of Air I found myself confused after each and every round of attack. Although I CCW’ed to cure the confusion, like clockwork, her next attack simply confused me again. I was unable to teleport, run, or effectively fight. After about 6 rounds I was dead. (I’ll admit I was ill equipped on Narognonth 55 without any potions of healing).

And, is there any difference between confusion brought upon by attack vs. confusion from a spell or device? It seems that CON or STR should dictate your resistance to confusion from attacks, and WIS or INT from spell based confusion.

Here’s a tip for masses… Don’t screw around or half heartedly (ya know, let’s just see how this first attack goes) enter battle with any of the Elemental Masters. They are very powerful, fast, and able to deliver massive attacks. They may not have been the most powerful uniques I encountered (or destroyed), but they are the ones I feared the most.

Nick August 13, 2008 06:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzkill (Post 9474)
Upgrading FA 3.4 to 3.5… When switching from the old to the new, apparently just replacing the executable doesn’t work. I’d like to continue playing as seamlessly as possible, carrying forward my scores, saves, ghosts, and preferences. I copied the bone, save, and user folders which seems to be working OK. Am I missing anything?

Also apex, which contains the scores file - but you may have got that already. You probably don't need to copy the pref folder, since any of your own .prf files will be put in the user folder.

Quote:

Also, is there any device or particular attribute to prevent or minimize ‘confusion’?
20% or more confusion resistance will stop you getting confused.

Quote:

And, is there any difference between confusion brought upon by attack vs. confusion from a spell or device?
Melee confusion (from things that 'hit to confuse') works whenever the monster hits you. Confusion by spell has to pass a saving throw, which is affected by your race, class, level and WIS.

Quote:

Here’s a tip for masses… Don’t screw around or half heartedly (ya know, let’s just see how this first attack goes) enter battle with any of the Elemental Masters. They are very powerful, fast, and able to deliver massive attacks. They may not have been the most powerful uniques I encountered (or destroyed), but they are the ones I feared the most.
Indeed. In particular, never fight Ariel without RConf - !CCW will not help because she is too fast, and will get lots of hits in between your turns.

buzzkill August 14, 2008 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 9475)
20% or more confusion resistance will stop you getting confused.

Can you clarify. Will 20% resistance grant you immunity to ALL confusion? If so, why would I ever want or need more than 20%?

HallucinationMushroom August 14, 2008 03:46

I didn't realize 20% was the cut-off point for keeping Mr. At from becoming confused, that's good to know. Having more that 20% would reduce damage from confusion attacks, I assume. I wouldn't worry too much about it, but then again I play hit point healthy characters. ? I would imagine 50% would be a lot of confusion resistance without any sort of data to back that up. :)

Nick August 14, 2008 05:12

Yes, a given percentage of confusion resistance will cut damage from confusion breaths by (roughly) that percentage. There are relatively few confusion breathers, so as a general rule it's the effect (being confused) that's more dangerous.

More generally, 20% is where the '+' in your resistance table on the 'C' screen turns green (it's yellow from 0-19%), and is the cutoff for effects from all the high elements - except poison, where it's 80% :)

buzzkill August 16, 2008 03:48

When wielding a branded weapon, a particular brand, such as fire, grants additional damage per attack vs enemies which are not resistant to it, while also granting resistance to the character from the very same elemental attacks.
It seems to me that these provisions effectively cancel each other out. Any enemy with a elemental resistance is likely to also have that similarly branded elemental attack. So, when fighting a fire elemental (or any creature resistant to fire), one could either wield a ??? or burning and gain the resistance to fire (but do no additional damage), or wield a ??? of freezing (for example, or any other) and deliver the extra damage (but then have no resistance to fire based attacks you're likely to face).

I'm sure it just a matter of game balance once again, but having branded weapons that grant resistance to the opposite or a different brand would make for a more useful weapon. A Mace of Burning that grant resistance to cold, or a Dagger of Venom that grants resistance to water.

darkdrone August 16, 2008 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzkill (Post 9504)
When wielding a branded weapon, a particular brand, such as fire, grants additional damage per attack vs enemies which are not resistant to it, while also granting resistance to the character from the very same elemental attacks.
It seems to me that these provisions effectively cancel each other out. Any enemy with a elemental resistance is likely to also have that similarly branded elemental attack. So, when fighting a fire elemental (or any creature resistant to fire), one could either wield a ??? or burning and gain the resistance to fire (but do no additional damage), or wield a ??? of freezing (for example, or any other) and deliver the extra damage (but then have no resistance to fire based attacks you're likely to face).

I'm sure it just a matter of game balance once again, but having branded weapons that grant resistance to the opposite or a different brand would make for a more useful weapon. A Mace of Burning that grant resistance to cold, or a Dagger of Venom that grants resistance to water.

i second this query ...

in summation, wielding a Flame-branded weapon having flame resistance is pointless (and so on....for acid/elec/cold) ESPECIALLY for a melee character.

i do recall, however, reading in rgra or this forum, that the whole "Cold monster vulnerable to flame" thing is not true anymore even if it were in the older roguelikes ??

IMO , more knowledgable posters would have more to say on this previous point....

Donald Jonker August 16, 2008 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkdrone (Post 9506)
i second this query ...

i do recall, however, reading in rgra or this forum, that the whole "Cold monster vulnerable to flame" thing is not true anymore even if it were in the older roguelikes ??

IMO , more knowledgable posters would have more to say on this previous point....

In NPP, at least, there are such monster elemental weaknesses.

--J

buzzkill August 20, 2008 14:15

[FA] 3.5 unarmed combat... How can you tell how much damage you are dealing when using unarmed combat. I am currently playing a druid and using unarmed combat w/power strike specialty. Not knowing my damage potential is driving me crazy!!! Having this info on the (C)haracter screen or visible in the (a) equipment slot, when unarmed, would be great.

Also, here's a bug. (FA 3.5 on Vista/laptop with no keypad). With 3 or more items in my quiver and (F)iring a bow, I cannot select the 3rd ammo by pressing the (2) key. FA says "fire which item (0-2)" but pressing 2 does nothing. In order to select the number 2 slot I must press (*) and then (2), and then it works.

Kudos on the shortened days, it actually seem like time is passing now. It takes about a half hour to walks across a large town. That seems about right to me.

Has anyone ever considered mandatory rest for the player. Monsters are often sleeping but the player never has to, and certainly wouldn't while healthy. Maybe a progressive 'fatigued'/'more fatigued'/'tired' feeling would overcome a player after days with no rest (with appropriate minuses to skills). It would be kind of like hunger, I guess. I'm just throwing this out there. I don't know if it's a practical or desirable feature. It just seems unfair that perfectly healthy monsters are often caught napping while the player never is.

Nick August 20, 2008 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzkill (Post 9566)
[FA] 3.5 unarmed combat... How can you tell how much damage you are dealing when using unarmed combat. I am currently playing a druid and using unarmed combat w/power strike specialty. Not knowing my damage potential is driving me crazy!!! Having this info on the (C)haracter screen or visible in the (a) equipment slot, when unarmed, would be great.

On the 'C' screen, under (Fighting) on the left, there's average damage per blow (in fact, it's the average damage done by your last ten hitting blows).

Quote:

Also, here's a bug. (FA 3.5 on Vista/laptop with no keypad). With 3 or more items in my quiver and (F)iring a bow, I cannot select the 3rd ammo by pressing the (2) key. FA says "fire which item (0-2)" but pressing 2 does nothing. In order to select the number 2 slot I must press (*) and then (2), and then it works.
Yeah, that's probably an issue with it thinking 2 is an arrow key, or something. That stuff still isn't quite sorted out yet.

Quote:

Kudos on the shortened days, it actually seem like time is passing now. It takes about a half hour to walks across a large town. That seems about right to me.
Thanks for the feedback - I like it better, too.

Quote:

Has anyone ever considered mandatory rest for the player. Monsters are often sleeping but the player never has to, and certainly wouldn't while healthy. Maybe a progressive 'fatigued'/'more fatigued'/'tired' feeling would overcome a player after days with no rest (with appropriate minuses to skills). It would be kind of like hunger, I guess. I'm just throwing this out there. I don't know if it's a practical or desirable feature. It just seems unfair that perfectly healthy monsters are often caught napping while the player never is.
I don't think this would add much - it would probably just increase recalls to rest in town.

Psi August 20, 2008 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzkill (Post 9566)
[FA] 3.5 unarmed combat... How can you tell how much damage you are dealing when using unarmed combat. I am currently playing a druid and using unarmed combat w/power strike specialty. Not knowing my damage potential is driving me crazy!!! Having this info on the (C)haracter screen or visible in the (a) equipment slot, when unarmed, would be great.

See this thread.
Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzkill (Post 9566)
Also, here's a bug. (FA 3.5 on Vista/laptop with no keypad). With 3 or more items in my quiver and (F)iring a bow, I cannot select the 3rd ammo by pressing the (2) key. FA says "fire which item (0-2)" but pressing 2 does nothing. In order to select the number 2 slot I must press (*) and then (2), and then it works.

Probably to do with [2] being a scrolling button. There are no end of funnies in that department at the moment.

[Edit]Beaten to it by someone who knows better...[/Edit]

buzzkill August 21, 2008 02:13

Thanks for link to the full monty on Drudical damage. That's exactly what I was looking for. I checked my (C)haracter screen early in the game but it showed nothing in Av. Dam/Blow. Maybe it doesn't show a number until after 10 successful attacks cause it seems to be working now.

Occasionally my druids attempts to confuse a monster when attacking, and often succeeds. Are there any other special attacks I have to look forward to. I'm only level 10 right now.

Nick August 21, 2008 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzkill (Post 9581)
Occasionally my druids attempts to confuse a monster when attacking, and often succeeds. Are there any other special attacks I have to look forward to.

No, just colourful names :)

buzzkill August 23, 2008 15:52

An Improved Map?
 
It would be nice to be able to scroll the world (M)ap using the arrow keys, so that you can see where you're headed without viewing memap.txt. You could also view terrain type and distance, something memap.txt doesn't offer. This would be especially useful for new players (unless wandering aimlessly through the wilderness is part of the fun).

and maybe a bug... when recalling to a wilderness level on which I had previously fallen through a trap door the (M)ap incorrectly labels it as a dungeon (although no stairs exist). I've noticed this more than once.

Zikke August 23, 2008 15:55

And what is this "Black Breath" I am afflicted with and how do I get rid of it? :eek:

Psi August 23, 2008 16:30

You can get it from various sources, but to break it you need to eat athelas (or maybe a !Life...?).

Nick August 24, 2008 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzkill (Post 9621)
It would be nice to be able to scroll the world (M)ap using the arrow keys, so that you can see where you're headed without viewing memap.txt. You could also view terrain type and distance, something memap.txt doesn't offer. This would be especially useful for new players (unless wandering aimlessly through the wilderness is part of the fun).

and maybe a bug... when recalling to a wilderness level on which I had previously fallen through a trap door the (M)ap incorrectly labels it as a dungeon (although no stairs exist). I've noticed this more than once.

Yeah, this map could certainly be reworked (ie made into something other than the massive hack it is now). I've noticed that dungeon thing too - there must be some portion of the record of that underworld level I'm failing to wipe.

buzzkill August 25, 2008 03:28

Improved pseudo-ID
 
I'm palying a druid, apparently a class with weak pseudo ID. INT 9, WIS 16, LEV 16 and has only pseudo-ID'd 1 item so far. The hard leather he has been wearing for 10's of 1000's of turns has still not been pseudo-ID'd. Keeping up with Staffs of Perception and Scrolls of Identify are sucking away all of my gold and my home has become a stockpile of un-ID'd weapons and armours.

Here's my proposal (actually 3 of them).

1st... an item should be pseudo-ID'd faster (much faster) when you are actually wearing it or wielding it. This is a no-brainer. Maybe even full ID with long term, extended use.

2nd... classes/races should be better able to pseudo-ID items natural to their class/race. Fighters would have a bonus pseudo-IDing swords and heavy armour, mages with robes and staff weapons, elves and rangers with bows and leathers, maybe assassins could p-ID hmmm (maybe poisons and other harmful potions and mushrooms). As for game balance, negative bonuses could be applied to items that are alien to a particular class/race.

3rd... the ability to take some time and actually (X)examine a particular item. Like tunneling, this command would auto-repeat until a result is obtained or 99 turns have passed (that is how tunneling works, isn't it?). HP/MANA would not regenerate (or at a slower rate) while examining an item. AS a result, that particular item would (most-likely) be pseudo-ID'd, "You feel the broadsword you are examining is good" or not "You are still unsure of the nature of the broadsword". As a game-balancer (as if weak or no regeneration wasn't enough) you could make the player so absorbed in his examination that he may not notice approaching creatures until they are already upon him.

As always, feedback is appreciated.

Slonk August 25, 2008 12:03

As for the first suggestion above, it has already been done in at least one other variant (Ey). Ey even goes so far as the full ID after extended wear.

Psi August 26, 2008 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzkill (Post 9652)
1st... an item should be pseudo-ID'd faster (much faster) when you are actually wearing it or wielding it. This is a no-brainer.

...and is already the case. Please note that IIRC druids have the slowest pseudo of all classes and they have weak pseudo - so {average} equipment never pseudos at all (which I hate). Also of course, {excellent} and {special} stuff also pseudos as {good}.

buzzkill August 26, 2008 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psi (Post 9664)
...and is already the case. Please note that IIRC druids have the slowest pseudo of all classes and they have weak pseudo - so {average} equipment never pseudos at all (which I hate). Also of course, {excellent} and {special} stuff also pseudos as {good}.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What does IIRC mean?
Is there any place where comprehensive information like this exists???

Well, that explains a lot, but I still think that one should be able to take the time to closely examine a particular item and possibly get a "feel" for it.

Psi August 26, 2008 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzkill (Post 9668)
What does IIRC mean?

If I recall correctly IIRC :)
Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzkill (Post 9668)
Is there any place where comprehensive information like this exists???

Yes... but unfortunately it is the source code.

Nick August 26, 2008 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzkill (Post 9668)
Well, that explains a lot, but I still think that one should be able to take the time to closely examine a particular item and possibly get a "feel" for it.

I am planning to make changes to pseudo-ID in the next version (see, for example this thread in r.g.r.a), and the sort of things that are bothering you are the reason why.

Zikke August 27, 2008 01:47

Out of curiosity, some questions regarding FA:

1) What is the difference between identify and "perilous identify"?

2) What exactly governs where the Staff of the Kelvar will illuminate? Is it a fixed radius around any "animal"-flagged creature?

3) Is there any guideline on where to farm for the advanced spellbooks? I've been hanging around 50-60 looking through vaults but have only found a ton of the Resistances and Escapes, and 1 Grimoire of Power, and I'm almost clvl 50. Itching for more spells... Do I need to go deeper?

4) What's the level limit and guardian of Tol-In-Gaurhoth? Is this info listed somewhere? I couldn't find it anywhere in-game.



Thanks! :D

Nick August 27, 2008 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zikke (Post 9685)
1) What is the difference between identify and "perilous identify"?

Perilous identify can sometimes hurt and confuse the player.

Quote:

2) What exactly governs where the Staff of the Kelvar will illuminate? Is it a fixed radius around any "animal"-flagged creature?
Yes.

Quote:

3) Is there any guideline on where to farm for the advanced spellbooks? I've been hanging around 50-60 looking through vaults but have only found a ton of the Resistances and Escapes, and 1 Grimoire of Power, and I'm almost clvl 50. Itching for more spells... Do I need to go deeper?
The exact depths and rarities are in lib/edit/object.txt; the short answer is yes :)

Quote:

4) What's the level limit and guardian of Tol-In-Gaurhoth? Is this info listed somewhere? I couldn't find it anywhere in-game.
It's not available in-game - I guess partly as a surprise for new players. The deepest level is IIRC 85, and the guardian is Sauron.

buzzkill August 27, 2008 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 9671)
I am planning to make changes to pseudo-ID in the next version (see, for example this thread in r.g.r.a), and the sort of things that are bothering you are the reason why.

I read the thread. I see change, but not necessarily improvement. You may just be complicating the system with no apparent benefit. And it's not that I was bothered by it (the weak pseudo-ID). I just didn't understand why it was so bad with this particular character. I know angband is a learn as you go game, but a better understanding of the rules would help greatly.

I like the game to be hard, but not impossible. FA is. I also like realism. Which FA lacks to a certain extent. When I had my first, self proclaimed, great character, I felt invincible. I thought I would march all the way to Angband 99-100 and battle to the death. Things didn't work out the way I thought they would, and I think he fell around level 30, far short of his goal. That's not what I wanted to happen, but that's OK. I don't cheat, backup my characters, stair scum (and let's face it people, stair scumming IS cheating)or kill FA in order to cheat death.

To which... as I've said before (somewhere in this forum) I don't like the infallibility of detect traps, it just works too well. Nothing in life is perfect (certainly not a rod or staff you found in the LV 10 wilderness). For those of you who would argue that at higher levels traps can kill you instantly, I agree (so what). Perfect detection, is not the answer. Would imperfect detection make the game impossible? I don't think so. And for many, the game is nearly impossible already, so why not make it realistic as well.

Pseudo-ID shouldn't be perfect either. Just because you feel an item is cursed or average or superb doesn't mean that it is, especially for low levels characters. Is my first level fighter so knowledgeable that he can determine with absolute certainty that the quarterstaff he just found is +0,+0 (average) rather than -1,-2 (cursed). I don't think so. If he was that smart his boots wouldn't be on the wrong feet and a novice mage wouldn't have just kicked his ass.

I don't like that the ability to stair scum exists either, and it could be easily solved. Just retain the prior dungeon level, monsters and all, for about 50-500 turns, determined randomly, so if someone were to try and scum they would simply keep revisiting the same level (with the monsters they just fled from waiting for them, as it should be). Or, simply lock the door to the previous level for 50-500 turns. Resting on a staircase should be forbidden (really, who camps out on a staircase, unless of course GOD himself couldn't follow you up the stairs, then maybe..) and resting to near a stairway could induce monster aggravation.... and/or maybe monsters that are aware of you should have the ability to "follow" you from one level to the next (just a bit of Pac-Man type delay when going through the tunnel/staircase).

I'm done ranting for now.. more later..

Zikke August 27, 2008 04:00

Maybe there should be a ruleset for one difficulty and another ruleset for a harder "elite" difficulty. I personally don't have a problem being able to stair scum, use a perfect Detect Traps (it is magic after all, not subject to 'human' error), etc. I find the game hard enough as it is, but some people that want it really hard may need an elite mode setting (taken from Diablo games, there could be a better word for it). There could be alterations to the depth spawning of some monsters or reduced items, etc. for this mode.

Do any variants have different difficulty settings? (besides Ironman and the AI tweaks in the options)

Mangojuice August 27, 2008 05:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzkill (Post 9687)
I don't like that the ability to stair scum exists either, and it could be easily solved. Just retain the prior dungeon level, monsters and all, for about 50-500 turns, determined randomly, so if someone were to try and scum they would simply keep revisiting the same level (with the monsters they just fled from waiting for them, as it should be). Or, simply lock the door to the previous level for 50-500 turns. Resting on a staircase should be forbidden (really, who camps out on a staircase, unless of course GOD himself couldn't follow you up the stairs, then maybe..) and resting to near a stairway could induce monster aggravation.... and/or maybe monsters that are aware of you should have the ability to "follow" you from one level to the next (just a bit of Pac-Man type delay when going through the tunnel/staircase).

I'm done ranting for now.. more later..

I thought about this for Z+Angband, but I felt like (1) making monsters able to follow you from level to level is a bit too nasty, but (2) keeping the previous dungeon level around for a period of time opens up a way to get a perfectly safe area to rest in, and then go back to a hard battle. I think, realistically, the way to solve the stair-scumming problem is to have the game detect it and punish you in an appropriate way. For instance, if the game detects that you've been stair-scumming recently, it may start generating levels with no treasure or monsters near you... until you stop stair-scumming and explore a level, and then it goes back to normal. Or, the safeguards keeping nearby monsters sleepy when you enter a level could be undone when you're stair-scumming, or the game could randomly have the stairs collapse behind you on occasion, or something.

Or, heck, it could just mark you as a cheater. :)

Psi August 27, 2008 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 9686)
Perilous identify can sometimes hurt and confuse the player.

It is a lot worse than that if you are not a warrior though! Each use takes 20SP and if you have less than that, you get paralysed (with no check for FA). I lost a promising thrall to that. Storm Troll woke up and beat me to death before I got another turn.

Psi August 27, 2008 10:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzkill (Post 9687)
I like the game to be hard, but not impossible. FA is. I also like realism. Which FA lacks to a certain extent.

Sure FA is hard (in places), but it is by no means impossible and the number of winners on the ladder is testament to that. Realism?!!!! It's a game based on a fictional world.
Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzkill (Post 9687)
To which... as I've said before (somewhere in this forum) I don't like the infallibility of detect traps, it just works too well. Nothing in life is perfect (certainly not a rod or staff you found in the LV 10 wilderness).

This is not 'life'. There is no reason why a magic device cannot be infallible. Why make the game more painful? Rather than spending one turn zapping your rod of detect traps, you'd have to waste several turns zapping your rod of detect *some* traps in the hope that you wouldn't miss any.
Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzkill (Post 9687)
I'm done ranting for now.. more later..

I'm sure Nick is looking forward it already.

buzzkill August 27, 2008 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psi (Post 9705)
Sure FA is hard (in places), but it is by no means impossible and the number of winners on the ladder is testament to that. Realism?!!!! It's a game based on a fictional world.

That's right! By no means impossible (so let's push harder..heeheehee). The fact that I, a virtual know-nothing, produced a character that I though could win (and was crushed, as it should be) is a testament to the games playability. Maybe realism isn't the right word. I'd like the game to be less un-true to reality, more common-sensical. Being able to flip from one dungeon level to the previous and having it be completely different (and littered with treasures) should be a power reserved for god-like being, not the commoner.

Psi August 27, 2008 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzkill (Post 9712)
Being able to flip from one dungeon level to the previous and having it be completely different (and littered with treasures) should be a power reserved for god-like being, not the commoner.

I think when you re-enter a level you are supposed to enter at a different section rather than it being a different level. Only 'Alter reality' actually changes the level. I admit this doesn't fit with the wilderness as you clearly enter and leave the level in the same positions - however this is a *band and not Nethack (thank goodness).

Nick August 28, 2008 01:22

Stair-scumming is an interesting one, because for thralls and some of the advanced races, it's really necessary. I can imagine devising some sort of punishment for repeated stair-scumming, but I'm not sure if it's worth it. I like to leave things as player choice rather than maintainer choice as much as possible. This also applies to difficulty levels.

As for realism, that's always a ticklish question. My aim is to immerse the player in the game, and having features that jar works against that. On the other hand, what jars for individuals varies enormously - there are so many places where things are not commonsense (10 full plate armours take up 1 inventory slot, rings of CON +2 and +3 take up 2, for example). In the end, all I can really do is go with a compromise between what is feasible, what seems right to me and what other people think is right. I have made a lot of changes based on things that people have suggested/complained about; I guess the moral is that ranting is a valid option, and I may even listen :)

buzzkill August 28, 2008 20:58

The Drouble with Druids
 
Has anyone else had this problem?

I'm playing my first note-worthy druid. Currently CL20 DL20. Bare handed damage is 3 blows at 20 per blow average. Bare handed has been my primary attack since the begining.

It seems that every time a find a nice weapon it's damage just doesn't stand up to what a can dish out bare handed and therefore isn't wort wielding. Most recently I had 2 finds. A Saber of Noldor and a Spiked Club Holy Avenger. These are both nice finds that do nearly (but not quite) the same damage as my weaponless attacks, with slightly higher skill bonuses. The Saber grants +1 STR,CON,DEX and SEE INVIS and FREE ACT. The Club grants WIS+3, AC+2 and SEE INVIS and SUST CON. As wonderful as it all sounds I find myself still fighting bare handed (because my bare handed attacks often induce CONFUSION in my opponents) and carry one of the other weapons in my pack in case I happen need the SEE INVIS or FREE ACT (which is not very often).

I just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience and if there are any items to be found that aside form the normal variety of rings and amulets and armors that will help this druid kick his game up a notch. Maybe something he could wield and still fight bare handed. A set of gloves or boots (brass knuckels of extra punches) or maybe just something to convey some resistance that could be equipped in the 'a' equipment slot.

Seany C August 29, 2008 10:02

>>I just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience and if there are any items to be found that aside form the normal variety of rings and amulets and armors that will help this druid kick his game up a notch. Maybe something he could wield and still fight bare handed. A set of gloves or boots (brass knuckels of extra punches) or maybe just something to convey some resistance that could be equipped in the 'a' equipment slot.
>>

I'm sure I've seen brass knuckles in a variant but not this one -yet. Dealing with the lack of 'extras' that you would get from a weapon is a problem for the early-mid-level druid, esp. with the "difficult" races (High-Elf, etc) where every other class gets a weapon with SI, FA, etc...

The best advice I can give is save up your cash and keep an eye out in the Black Market for rings of FA and SI - or hope that Ulfast drops gloves of FA or a Helm of Seeing. You can get the necessary resists eventually - it just requires a lucky find or two...

buzzkill September 21, 2008 18:35

*POTIONS* of stat gain
 
What's the difference between 'Increase stat' and 'increase *stat*'?
I'm guessing that the *** is better, but how much better?

Also, found my very first potion of 'restore mana'. Is this a full or partial restoration?

And, just a question of choice (ent, priest CL24). Currently exploring AR29, which is just about all I can handle. Currently have a Cloak of Stealth (+2 to stealth) and have the opportunity to buy a Cloak of Protection from Shrapnel (+38%). Which do you think will serve me better? They have about equal pluses to AC and and both would be my only form of stealth/prot from shard.

What's the deal with protection from acid (potion of acid/elec)? It gave 55% resistance according to the 'C'haracter screen, but the water hounds I was fighting was damaging my equipment with almost every attack.

Nick September 21, 2008 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzkill (Post 10405)
What's the difference between 'Increase stat' and 'increase *stat*'?
I'm guessing that the *** is better, but how much better?

The ordinary ones will only increase the internal value of the stat up to 18. To go above that you need *stat*.

Quote:

Also, found my very first potion of 'restore mana'. Is this a full or partial restoration?
Full, and they're generally something to stash for the endgame.

Quote:

And, just a question of choice (ent, priest CL24). Currently exploring AR29, which is just about all I can handle. Currently have a Cloak of Stealth (+2 to stealth) and have the opportunity to buy a Cloak of Protection from Shrapnel (+38%). Which do you think will serve me better? They have about equal pluses to AC and and both would be my only form of stealth/prot from shard.
I'd probably go with stealth, unless you find yourself getting really hammered by shards breathers.

Quote:

What's the deal with protection from acid (potion of acid/elec)? It gave 55% resistance according to the 'C'haracter screen, but the water hounds I was fighting was damaging my equipment with almost every attack.
Acid resistance will reduce but not remove the chance of stuff being damaged by acid. Water hounds are high on my list of monsters to avoid.


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