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-   -   [Announce] FrogComposband 7.1.salmiak released (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=10152)

Seraphimus February 27, 2022 08:55

was doing some testing with the Draconian race, and Apparently if you take the metamorphosis ability as a blood knight Draconian, the Beserk and slay living abilities don't apply correctly, resulting in a massive DPS drop and a much much weaker overall character.

Edit: Also appears to have some weird interactions with the monk. my AC changed but I can't figure out *how* it got the number it did, and you lose all of your passive combat abilities (which may be intentional but kinda sad a dragon martial artist sounded really cool)

animal_waves March 1, 2022 13:03

About item destruction & curses
 
Hey all, I have a few basic questions, sorry if those seems obvious to seasoned players!

Reading the help files about consumables/item destruction and resistances, I noted that:

Acid : degrades armor and destroy staves and scrolls
Electricity: destroy rings and wands
Fire: destroy staves, scrolls, town spellbooks and unequipped equipment
Cold: destroy potions
Sound: destroy potions
Chaos: destroy staves and wands
Disenchantment: can degrade artifacts

About rods: I see there's no trace of rods in the above list, so I guess they are indestructible? But still subject to thieves I suppose... :p.
I'm pondering to ditch my scrolls of WoR since I found a rod of WoR!

About fire: are non-town spellbooks immune to fire? also, when fire destroy a unequipped item, can it bypass "normal" item resistance? (ie: can fire destroy a ring that's not worn?).
Also, only the fire section mention unequipped items, so I conclude other type of damage only affects worn equipment?

@Sideways: recent versions of Vanilla are clearly stating by which element the item can be degraded/destroyed in its description, it would be a nice QoL improvement for newer players like me!

About curses: are scroll of remove curse and scroll of **remove curse** only used to remove the sticky property of an item, or can it remove the effect linked to the curse as well, like in recent version of Vanilla?

[edit: unrelated, I met the flame spiders for the firs time in the troll cave, nasty stuff! that plus a monster out of my FoV throwing huge boulders at me, I barely escaped alive, with a nasty cut! fun times...]

[edit2: I've got the corpse of Implorington III which is marked as wanted, but the guy in outpost doesn't want it! must I bring it somewhere else or is it a bug?]

Thraalbee March 1, 2022 14:13

Implorington is wanted by a bank. Youll find it in one of the towns

Seraphimus March 3, 2022 00:18

Been playing a death sword some more.... They should really be inherently immune to being disenchanted. like, They don't need to have resistance to it or anything just having their attack and damage modifiers reduced. the fact that gaining Attack and damage modifiers is part of their progression and they can just lose all those bonuses with no recourse, it's even extra difficult to re-enchant themselves. Maybe balance it by making it so weapon enchant scrolls always fail on them the same way they can't enchant themselves at shops?

GrimaTheBold March 5, 2022 20:01

Regarding item destruction of devices, the FAQ in the help menu has good info:

Quote:

Rods have few charges, and many of the best rods have high fail rates,
but they are indestructible and recharge faster than wands and staves
do. Rods are also somewhat less susceptible to charge-draining than
staves and wands.

Staves and wands are fairly similar to each other in principle - both
have more charges than rods, but don't recharge as fast. Direct
comparison between a staff and a wand is seldom necessary, as they have
different effects with different purposes. (As a general rule, wands
have effects aimed at a particular target, staves have effects that do
not need to be aimed, and rods may have either type of effect.) Wands
can be destroyed by electricity and chaos, while staves can be
destroyed by acid, fire, toxic waste or chaos. Staves are the device
most likely to be used while confused or blind, although rods and wands
can also be used this way if needed.
If you rely on rod of recall, make sure to inscribe it !*!* (to require two confirmations before doing anything with it) to avoid accidentally dropping or throwing it.

Implorington is wanted by the Cornucopia.

GrimaTheBold March 5, 2022 20:10

So I'm trying device master again (wands) and I'm still trying to wrap my head around the strategy.

Counterintuitively, I get the feeling improving device skill and putting all stat gains into intelligence isn't the best strategy, since higher device skill doesn't increase damage. And its not like fail rates are an issue, at least not in the early game for me. Would Str/Dex/Con gains make the most sense? As long as my failure rates are okay, should I just not worry about device skill and Int?

When I get those gloves from Tidy the Lab (the ones that increase device skill but have a negative combat value), I'm guessing I won't wear them. Which seems crazy - that a device master wouldn't wear a device that increases device skill.

Or am I all wrong about that?

Sideways March 6, 2022 06:18

Yeah, for devicemasters more device skill is a drop in the ocean, whereas someone like a warrior or samurai might need it badly.

Bucephalus March 7, 2022 16:45

I'm still not sure how to interpret acid damage in monster memory recall.

It seems to quote the damage you'll take from acid if you're wearing non-damaged body armor. It does not change this number if you aren't. You can be fighting something that recall claims cannot one-shot you, you can check recall and make sure—yup, it can't one-shot you!—and then it can one-shot you.

ShadowTechnology March 9, 2022 04:25

That annoying Metal Babble...
 
Looking for advice dealing with the Metal Babble at the bottom of the Arena Dungeon. I have my poison needle. I rekitted for high speed, high CON, high AC, reflection, immunity to fire, and double resistance to chaos and disenchantment. I brought a lot of healing with me, and phase door/teleport for escape.
The problem is I haven't been able to get more then a couple of needle attacks in. He won't let me approach within melee range. He's much faster than I will ever will be (+80 speed) and blinks away before I can step next to him. Ambushing around corners hasn't worked. If I stand behind a closed door he won't open it. If I open the door he either blinks or attacks (from a square away) and then blinks before I can move into the doorway and attack.
I'm thinking about searching for another anti-teleport amulet (I've been selling or ignoring the ones I've seen so far). But I'm nervous about needing to spend an extra turn swapping amulets when *I* need an emergence escape.
How do others get that damn Babble to hold still long enough to get a few attacks in?

ShadowTechnology March 9, 2022 06:43

That annoying Metal Babble...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowTechnology (Post 157843)
Looking for advice dealing with the Metal Babble at the bottom of the Arena Dungeon. I have my poison needle. I rekitted for high speed, high CON, high AC, reflection, immunity to fire, and double resistance to chaos and disenchantment. I brought a lot of healing with me, and phase door/teleport for escape.
The problem is I haven't been able to get more then a couple of needle attacks in. He won't let me approach within melee range. He's much faster than I will ever will be (+80 speed) and blinks away before I can step next to him. Ambushing around corners hasn't worked. If I stand behind a closed door he won't open it. If I open the door he either blinks or attacks (from a square away) and then blinks before I can move into the doorway and attack.
I'm thinking about searching for another anti-teleport amulet (I've been selling or ignoring the ones I've seen so far). But I'm nervous about needing to spend an extra turn swapping amulets when *I* need an emergence escape.
How do others get that damn Babble to hold still long enough to get a few attacks in?

Update: Got him! I dimension doored right next to him several times, but he always blinked away immediately before I could needle him. Finally I tried a charge right at him as he rounded a corner and charged me, throwing raw logrus and psycho-spears all the way. Suddenly he was right in front of me. I got him on the very first needle stab! Lucky I guess. I was expecting stab-heal-stab-heal-etc.

Now for the final challenge in the Thalos Arena. Anyone defeat the GWOP with a poison needle? Just out of curiosity, can the Serpent of Chaos be killed with a poison needle?

Sideways March 9, 2022 11:04

Uniques cannot be killed with a poison needle, except for the babble at the bottom of the Arena, who's a hardcoded exception.

budswell March 9, 2022 12:48

What is the go with a poison needle? I've never tried one.

EpicMan March 9, 2022 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by budswell (Post 157847)
What is the go with a poison needle? I've never tried one.

Most of the time it deals exactly one point of damage, but occasionally (think around one in ten times) it will deal (monster's HP + 1) damage, which will instakill the monster.

The chance in code (from 7.1.Salmiak) is randint1(randint1(r_ptr->level/7)+5) == 1
This means that 1-time-in (random number from 6 to (5+monster level /7) ) it will kill the mob.
So for the Metal Babble guardian in the Arena, a level 80 mob, you would have 1-in-6 (best case) to 1-in-16 (worst case) chance to instantly kill it. I think (Statistics class was a long time ago) the average chance is 1-in-11.

But it varies a little based on monster level, so for instance a level 50 mob would range from 1-in-6 to 1-in-12 (average 1-in-9), while for a level 100 mob the max is 1-in-19 (average 1-in-13).

Pete Mack March 9, 2022 15:20

1 in ~8.5 for DL 50 monster. (You can't add denominators.) For what it's worth, the odds are of order 1/log(DL).

MITZE March 20, 2022 20:01

Bug/RFE: Giants, etc. & Kronos' Sickle
 
Titans have Kronos as their racial boss, yet his sickle is, unflavorfully, not suitable for Giant wielding.

Posted for Rolanako.

MITZE March 29, 2022 20:59

Bug(?): Death-Swords and Disenchantment
 
The function for Death-Swords getting disenchanted and losing their essences (r_sword.c, line 1114) doesn't appear to be called anywhere; as far as Rolanako and I can tell Disenchantment isn't any more dangerous or annoying for Death-Swords than any other character, even though I could have sworn that was not the case at some point.

Bostock March 31, 2022 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowTechnology (Post 157845)
Update: Got him! I dimension doored right next to him several times, but he always blinked away immediately before I could needle him. Finally I tried a charge right at him as he rounded a corner and charged me, throwing raw logrus and psycho-spears all the way. Suddenly he was right in front of me. I got him on the very first needle stab! Lucky I guess. I was expecting stab-heal-stab-heal-etc.

Note that since the babble doesn't levitate, etc., it has to spend extra energy to enter trees. It will fireball trees if you're next to them, but you can often stand one square away and approach just after it enters them without making it blink. Of course you'll need a good pile of ?Forest Creation for this, or to have some other means of tree creation.

budswell April 12, 2022 16:42

So I've gone back to coffee break, if I'm going to die around CL30 may as well get there quicker.
But how do you guys control the pacing? Do you just sit and rest in DLs you've pretty much cleared waiting for monsters and loot to respawn? Or do good players not really need to pace it?
I rarely get to CL35, and find that it's too much for me id DL is > CL+5. And when under CL25 I keep DL < CL

Thraalbee April 12, 2022 17:19

Mainly I avoid killing summoners unless I dont need more xp at the time

MITZE April 14, 2022 23:17

Bug?: Devicemasters and Transfer Essence
 
The Transfer Essence ability for Devicemasters (devicemaster.c, line 265) seems to only let you transfer from deeper objects to ones of shallower depth, yet its safety check message (line 290) makes it seem like it's supposed to work in the opposite way (from shallow objects to ones of deeper depth).

GrimaTheBold April 15, 2022 17:10

Archer vs. Weaponmaster?
 
I'm curious what the pros and cons are of playing an Archer vs. playing a Weaponmaster (bows, crossbows, slings)? Clearly the Weaponmaster gets some great class powers - I especially love the sling master's powers. The Archer gets the advantage of being able to effectively use all bows, not just one type. What else? Do Archers get better damage from bows? Are they better at melee? Because right now I'm struggling to see what advantage an Archer could have that would outweigh those Weaponmaster class powers.

Seraphimus April 17, 2022 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimaTheBold (Post 158241)
I'm curious what the pros and cons are of playing an Archer vs. playing a Weaponmaster (bows, crossbows, slings)? Clearly the Weaponmaster gets some great class powers - I especially love the sling master's powers. The Archer gets the advantage of being able to effectively use all bows, not just one type. What else? Do Archers get better damage from bows? Are they better at melee? Because right now I'm struggling to see what advantage an Archer could have that would outweigh those Weaponmaster class powers.

At a glance, the Archer is better at archery, having Amber [12] instead of just heroic, higher strength and con, better skills almost all the way across the board, save stealth and perception... (Though why do both archer specialists have poor perception), lower exp modifier better life rating, and... Don't underestimate the value of create ammo. The kind of ammo you create scales as you progress (dunno if it's depth or CLVL based) and can roll Ego ammo as well as higher quality types, like mithril bolts, or arrows of returning.

Essentially they lose out in the utility of the Bowmasters abilities for being better at basically everything else.

MITZE April 23, 2022 23:42

Bug: Throwing and Throw Weapon Abilities
 
Had cause to look up how throwing worked, and noticed that due to the way that throwing multiplier context->mult is initialized in multiple places, it's also calculated in multiple ways, which results in some of those calculations not taking into account some things they probably should.

For instance, the Daggermaster's Dagger Toss initializes context->mult to (100 + (CL * 4)). However, in py_throw.c line 165, it's initialized to (100 + (100 if you have the throwing mutation) + (100 if the weapon has the throwing flag) + (a STR-based modifier)), only if context->mult isn't already initialized. This means that Dagger Toss won't benefit from you having the throwing mutation, the weapon having the throwing flag, or a STR-based modifier . . . which arguably, it should.

This probably applies some other abilities besides Dagger Toss as well.

Thraalbee April 24, 2022 16:16

Wow
 
There are so many cool things to discover even after a long time. Small things like there is a suit of armor that allows you to breathe even when there is no air and that there is actually a monster in the game that makes this feature useful. But this made me laugh out loud when I found it ...
The Great Maul of Vice - activates for Lightspeed (speed 99) for 16 turns with only 1.6% fail rate for my Warrior. Useful as a swap unless you are a mauler.

Code:

The Great Hammer 'Great Maul of Vice' (8d8) (+8,+8) [+8] (+2) (charging)
  {CnCh;NtNxFe;FaHl|EPV A:Light Speed} [70 lb]

Edit: An unexpected side effect -- It consumes gold, if in inventory or wielded

HugoVirtuoso April 24, 2022 17:37

There's more...Do you know what happens when you run out of money?

Thraalbee April 24, 2022 18:49

Interesting. Thanks for the warning! My guess would be it disappears but keeps drawing money from the player's gold pool.

MITZE April 30, 2022 18:56

Bug: Thieving Monster Interactions
 
[13:51] reijesa: You attack the Ninja Tonberry: You cruelly attack it! (It retaliates: It hits.) You feel uneasy. You grab hold of your backpack! The thief flees laughing! Your weapon drains life from it! You swing wildly at nothing. It seems weakened. You swing wildly at nothing.

[13:52] reijesa: looks like the "can't attack if it's gone" fix doesn't check vampirism

Thraalbee April 30, 2022 20:56

Monster Leprechaun starts with zero gold in Thrall mode.
Not a bug but that is a bit mean, isn't it?

ster May 4, 2022 05:01

Resurrection Machine can choose Basement Cat, which won't ever generate randomly again. A similar bug was fixed with random Angband quest guardians but this one's still at large.

MITZE May 5, 2022 21:57

Bug: Summon Gods
 
[16:40] picklenugget: Apparently casting summon gods crashes the game
[16:40] picklenugget: as a possesor

Bostock May 10, 2022 12:09

Human transform for doppelgangers is oldhuman
 
A CL35+ doppelganger transformed into a human does not get a human weakness. Not sure if WAI or bug.

Note: this is in Salmiak. Haven't tested in Nightly.

Bostock May 11, 2022 08:10

Putting on a ring with slaying maluses triggers the "do you want to switch fingers so you can... benefit... from these... maluses" message :)

Thraalbee June 8, 2022 22:00

Corrupt savefile solution?
 
I got a 3-4 program crashes [Salmiak] when drops were generated after a kill. Eventually one of these led to a broken savefile. Ideas on how to solve?
I can start all over of course, but my level 41 snotling skillmaster was doing so well so it is a bit of a pain.

Sideways June 9, 2022 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thraalbee (Post 158653)
I got a 3-4 program crashes [Salmiak] when drops were generated after a kill. Eventually one of these led to a broken savefile. Ideas on how to solve?
I can start all over of course, but my level 41 snotling skillmaster was doing so well so it is a bit of a pain.

If it were just the crashes it would most likely get fixed simply by upgrading to nightly; but a broken savefile will (probably) be more complicated.

Is the savefile small enough to attach here when zipped? I can't promise I can fix it, but I could give it a look tomorrow. (Any successful fix would still require upgrading to nightly afterwards, though.)

Thraalbee June 9, 2022 07:28

Thanks! It is too big though, so I'll restart after downloading the nightly. Snotlings level up very fast and even if Glaurung does not drop his helm this time I'll find something else nice. Again, thanks for all the work on this great variant!


[EDIT] Where do I find the nightly?

Sideways June 9, 2022 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thraalbee (Post 158655)
Thanks! It is too big though, so I'll restart after downloading the nightly. Snotlings level up very fast and even if Glaurung does not drop his helm this time I'll find something else nice. Again, thanks for all the work on this great variant!

[EDIT] Where do I find the nightly?

https://github.com/sulkasormi/frogco...ads/master.zip

You'll need to compile it though, if that's a problem you can also find it on angband.live.

Thraalbee June 10, 2022 17:24

Hunted by a Caaws!
 
I was just followed around by a Caaws in a watery room. Never experienced that before and the description says Stationary. What is going on here?

Sideways June 11, 2022 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thraalbee (Post 158675)
I was just followed around by a Caaws in a watery room. Never experienced that before and the description says Stationary. What is going on here?

Probably a tanuki (as a couple of people commented on angband.live).

Thraalbee June 11, 2022 14:17

putting the cursor on it and reading the lore said Caaws with expected stats and imunities but it was only mildly annoying


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