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-   -   Movement Speed? (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=10623)

Nick July 6, 2021 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCountr (Post 154204)
So, how is that not Speed +10, then?

The main thing is it only applies to movement, where Speed +10 applies to all actions.

NCountr July 6, 2021 06:48

These vax shots aren't worth a darn.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 154205)
Bile demon is going to be breathing poison for 800, so single resisted would be 266 and double-resisted 88. The relevant side-effect code is
Code:

                if (randint0(context->dam) > 200) {
                        msg("The stench sickens you.");
                        effect_simple(EF_DRAIN_STAT, source_none(), "0", STAT_CON, 0, 0, 0,
                                                  0, &context->obvious);
                }

As far as I can see this means context->dam must be > 200, which makes it look like damage adjustment is not working correctly. It shouldn't be a cap not being applied issue, as uncapped the unresisted damage at full HP would be 808. I don't suppose you noticed how much damage the breath was doing?

My character takes as little as 13 damage from poison and I'm still getting the Covid.

NCountr July 6, 2021 07:42

As far as I can tell..
 
I haven't gotten very far in my research, but it seems like context->dam is not reflecting ANY resists.

E.g., when I get hit with a Cold attack by anything powerful, I automatically take inventory damage. I.e.,
Quote:

inven_damage(player, PROJ_COLD, MIN(context->dam * 5, 300));
is always ringing true, regardless of resists.

Tomorrow, I'll spend some more time and have it print out what it thinks the damage value of context->dam actually is. I'm betting it's unfiltered, raw damage amounts. I don't think it is even checking for Resists, just Immunities.

backwardsEric July 6, 2021 08:06

NCountr, which version are you running? There was a change in 4.2.2 so that the side effects looked at the damage reduced by resistances; in 4.2.1 the side effects used the unadjusted damage. In 4.2.0 there was an indexing error that could mean a resistance was not correctly applied; that was fixed in 4.2.1.

wobbly July 6, 2021 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed_47569 (Post 154194)
I am pretty sure all of these have been in the game since 2.4 (Frog-Knows). I wonder if any of the old Warwick people who might lurk on this forum could confirm?

As for the stat-drain with elemental breaths, I remember that being a thing around version 2.5.x or 2.6.x when Charles Swiger was briefly the maintainer. I think that was removed by Ben for 2.7.x. In any case, it's so rare that it is almost inconsequential. By the time you encounter such attacks you will have plenty of options for restoring stats.

All the old versions from frog-knows on are still on Rephial, along with release notes. The elemental stat drain happened in 2.6.2 for instance. Morgoth didn't gain breathe time till 4.2.3
I'm on my phone so I can't download and check the monster list for frog knows, but they were centainly a thing in 2.9.3 and came in bigger pack sizes. Aparently dholes almost became a thing in one of the early versions. They're around in the henglikes if anyone feels like correcting the missed opportunity.

NCountr July 6, 2021 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by backwardsEric (Post 154214)
NCountr, which version are you running? There was a change in 4.2.2 so that the side effects looked at the damage reduced by resistances; in 4.2.1 the side effects used the unadjusted damage. In 4.2.0 there was an indexing error that could mean a resistance was not correctly applied; that was fixed in 4.2.1.

4.2.1 -- that would explain a lot. But, I'm looking at the 4.2.2 source. So, I'd have to see where that structure's data gets populated. I assume that's in effects.c somewhere.

Julian July 6, 2021 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed_47569 (Post 154194)
I am pretty sure all of these have been in the game since 2.4 (Frog-Knows). I wonder if any of the old Warwick people who might lurk on this forum could confirm?

I’m not sure there’s been a damage type added since frog-knows. (I checked the source, and IIRC all the ones being complained about have literally always been in the game.)

Double resists have, IIRC, existed since Moria. Certainly since frog-knows. (It’s entirely possible that a temporary+permanent resist in Moria is fully redundant; I can’t be bothered to go digging to check.)

Quote:

As for the stat-drain with elemental breaths, I remember that being a thing around version 2.5.x or 2.6.x when Charles Swiger was briefly the maintainer. I think that was removed by Ben for 2.7.x. In any case, it's so rare that it is almost inconsequential. By the time you encounter such attacks you will have plenty of options for restoring stats.
That one I don’t remember until modern versions, but there’s no guarantee I ever played anything in the 2.5-2.6 range.

Ed_47569 July 6, 2021 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julian (Post 154229)
I’m not sure there’s been a damage type added since frog-knows. (I checked the source, and IIRC all the ones being complained about have literally always been in the game.)

Double resists have, IIRC, existed since Moria. Certainly since frog-knows. (It’s entirely possible that a temporary+permanent resist in Moria is fully redundant; I can’t be bothered to go digging to check.)

That one I don’t remember until modern versions, but there’s no guarantee I ever played anything in the 2.5-2.6 range.

Thanks for the confirmation and also the info about Moria - the main exception there being poison resistance. That wasn't available in either permanent or temporary form. Therefore the AMHD was an unavoidable instakill if it breathed poison as characters didn't get much over 400hp with stats capped at 18/100. Now THAT would be something to complain about if it was in modern Angband!

Nick July 6, 2021 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCountr (Post 154226)
4.2.1 -- that would explain a lot. But, I'm looking at the 4.2.2 source. So, I'd have to see where that structure's data gets populated. I assume that's in effects.c somewhere.

It's all happening in project-player.c - adjust_dam() for the resists, project_player_handler_COLD() (and so on) for the individual element effects, and those are called in project_p() near the end of the file.

NCountr July 7, 2021 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 154207)
The main thing is it only applies to movement, where Speed +10 applies to all actions.

But this is why it is so convoluted now. I think just about everyone can comprehend +20 speed and how to employ that into game strategy.

Now, you have Movement Speed +2, or whatever, and I sit there hitting the '5' key repeatedly waiting for a mob to move... like 6 times because I have a character already moving 2x as fast as the mob, but then it's compounded with the Movement speed bonus and the mobs just SIT there, except when I'm attacking. All the sudden they're moving every-other action my character takes.

That's rather obscene, don't you think? Maybe not because you put it in there, but it's not a great addition to the game, all-things-considered.


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