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Pete Mack July 8, 2021 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCountr (Post 154302)


Next up, when / why was NEXUS altered to be Up/Down level only?
No more stat-scramble or just being sent away ~50-60 squares away?

Are you sure? I've seen all effects in 4.2.2.

Nick July 9, 2021 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCountr (Post 154301)
Wasn't an issue with finding a grid square. Try this---the mob was not an original mob on the level, but was generated later on into the level, asleep.

This shouldn't matter. I've tested this too, and it seems to be working fine. The reasons for it not working are:
  • Fail to find an empty floor grid (18 attempts)
  • Monster is unique
  • There are too many monsters already on the level
The first of these is the most likely; it's randomly choosing grids adjacent to the monster, so if a few of those are unsuitable it could be unlucky.

NCountr July 9, 2021 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 154304)
This shouldn't matter. I've tested this too, and it seems to be working fine. The reasons for it not working are:
  • Fail to find an empty floor grid (18 attempts)
  • Monster is unique
  • There are too many monsters already on the level
The first of these is the most likely; it's randomly choosing grids adjacent to the monster, so if a few of those are unsuitable it could be unlucky.

It was a kobold. I plain simple, lonely kobold in a hallway. Squares north & south were completely open. I nailed that thing 6 or 7 times with a wand of Clone Monster. The log said the kobold was Moving Faster, but stayed fast asleep.

I ran up to the kobold. I woke it up with bright lights. It was moving at high velocity. I hit it with the Clone Monster wand again, with 1-less square available. Now I had 2 kobolds. I repeated and got 3 more just like it.

Version 4.2.2 --- The Clone wand doesn't work when the mob is generated post-dungeon level creation (i.e., after you've spent some time on the level and mobs begin to repopulate the area) and is asleep. The code forbids it.

Ed_47569 July 9, 2021 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCountr (Post 154278)
Partially correct. I'm complaining about how the YesMen often resort to it's always been like wxyz, go split off yer own code and stick a Fork in it!. But, when I give counter arguments destroying the It's-Always-Been-That-Way argument, I suddenly get the rebuttal you just pushed -- "Yer an old foggie who can't accept change!" -- argument.

You cannot have it both ways. Either you accept that you've made changes and I can therefore critique them, or you look extremely weak otherwise. And it's the entourage of YesMen that push you into these weak positions.

I would rather hear you come back and say, "hmmm.. that point has some merit, let's look into this", "yeah, I might have over committed on that one", or, "no, I don't agree - here's why ... ", and discuss the points logically.

But, no, immediately, the YesMen circle like Time Hounds and defend the Commander with trite quips and uninspired back-talk. All-in-all a weak showing.

Mage's are too powerful moan the cliche'd crowd of YesMen. Followed quickly with the uneducated reasoning of, Dimension Door has wrecked the game!.

I recant the real reason behind what has "wrecked" the game and I see nothing but belly-aching and rants about how I don't know jack-Moria. Fine. Sit in your cubicles of Yes-ness and believe that Dimension Door is why the game is where it is.

I'm not quite sure what your point is here. If everyone had just been "Yes Men" then Angband would still be at version 2.4 (when the Warwick creators left off), or possibly not even forked from Moria. The only changes would have been UI and bugfixes. That's not the case though, is it? Older versions are also available to play for those who don't like some of the changes in the newer versions.

For what it's worth I also think mages are well-balanced and not at all overpowered in the current version.

Nick July 9, 2021 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCountr (Post 154306)
It was a kobold. I plain simple, lonely kobold in a hallway. Squares north & south were completely open. I nailed that thing 6 or 7 times with a wand of Clone Monster. The log said the kobold was Moving Faster, but stayed fast asleep.

I ran up to the kobold. I woke it up with bright lights. It was moving at high velocity. I hit it with the Clone Monster wand again, with 1-less square available. Now I had 2 kobolds. I repeated and got 3 more just like it.

Version 4.2.2 --- The Clone wand doesn't work when the mob is generated post-dungeon level creation (i.e., after you've spent some time on the level and mobs begin to repopulate the area) and is asleep. The code forbids it.

This is quite puzzling. Since the call to place_new_monster() in multiply_monster() doesn't depend on whether the monster is sleeping or not, there must be something else going on. If it moved between unsuccessful and successful uses, and there were ignored objects on the available grids before it moved, that might explain it.

NCountr July 9, 2021 06:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 154308)
This is quite puzzling. Since the call to place_new_monster() in multiply_monster() doesn't depend on whether the monster is sleeping or not, there must be something else going on. If it moved between unsuccessful and successful uses, and there were ignored objects on the available grids before it moved, that might explain it.

It was 100% unsuccessful while the kobold was undisturbed. As soon as it woke up, it was 100% successful. My only conclusion is that bool sleep in the function itself was causing the Result to be false, hence the multiply_monster() call also failed.

Like I said, the mob was successfully Hastened (while fast asleep) each time I zapped it; it just didn't replicate.

In versions past, a Clone Monster wand would disturb the mob and wake it up. This time, it did not have that affect.

NCountr July 9, 2021 06:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed_47569 (Post 154307)
I'm not quite sure what your point is here.

Moving on.. .

NCountr July 9, 2021 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 154308)
Since the call to place_new_monster() in multiply_monster() doesn't depend on whether the monster is sleeping or not, there must be something else going on. If it moved between unsuccessful and successful uses, and there were ignored objects on the available grids before it moved, that might explain it.

What if the code considers newly popped mobs to be surrounded (i.e., no open grid squares / yet undefined) no matter how open an area they reside? As soon as the kobold woke up, it was clone-able.

NCountr July 9, 2021 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCountr (Post 154311)
What if the code considers newly popped mobs to be surrounded (i.e., no open grid squares / yet undefined) no matter how open an area they reside? As soon as the kobold woke up, it was clone-able.

Just attempted again with a mob in an open room, sleeping, generated as a mob post level creation. I could not repeat the issue. Now I'm flummoxed.

NCountr July 9, 2021 18:15

Finally replicated the No Clone Event.
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by NCountr (Post 154313)
Just attempted again with a mob in an open room, sleeping, generated as a mob post level creation. I could not repeat the issue. Now I'm flummoxed.

Okay, sleep has nothing to do with it. My bad.

Hopefully, my uploads worked and you can see empty hallway before / after the guardian naga, but it is now impervious to spawning while in the hallway. I'm now of the opinion that the spawn code is not looking very hard to find an open grid to place a replicate mob. 75% of the time it fails when it only finds wall...?


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