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-   -   No Sell - I am convinced (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=4550)

PowerDiver June 25, 2011 19:39

I've been trying to look for specific reasons why some people are opposed to no_selling. I've come up with

(1) It is a game of managing slots, and forcing a warrior to drop his 3 scrolls of light to pick up something to take home to sell is a good thing.

(2) There is more money available to the char in selling games, and people want to be able to buy more high-end stuff in town.

(3) Confusion over the fact that you can still donate unaware flavored items to stores to identify them even with "no selling".

If you hate playing with no_selling, and it's not about (1) or (2), could you try to explain it to me? I'd like to see if there is a way to address the concerns some other way in a no_selling context.

Zikke June 25, 2011 21:47

The only reason I do any selling whatsoever in games is solely to speed up the process of finding stat potions, and also to buy a rare item with telepathy or speed. Telepathy or speed generally allow you to move on to the "next chapter" in the dungeon, which means more fun. Also, I save money if I'm a pure caster for the escapes spell book (again, to reduce the tedium of scumming for them so I can start moving on to more exciting parts of the dungeon).

For me, it's never about inventory management. It's about IRL time saved by finding things I would otherwise have to scum for.

nobody June 26, 2011 02:13

alright. i'll try to fully explain why i hate no-sell. i really really like selling. it is exciting, fun, and interesting to me. it's one of the biggest reasons i play the game, and i think it provides a unique rhythm to the game to go down and come up, i don't want to stay in the dungeon for long periods of time, i want to come back up for a breather, and sell stuff and check the black market for cool stuff.

like i said, i'm not a great player, i've played for probably 20 years and have never won, and i don't see myself ever winning (except perhaps by accident). i'm not disciplined enough to have a playstyle that lends itself to winning, i'm impulsive and often hold movement keys down. i'm the complete opposite of those people that have to maximize everything, i just like to zone out, kill things, find cool stuff, sell some of it, buy different stuff. i usually make it to about the mid 30s character and dungeonwise, and i'm happy doing it.

its not really that i enjoy managing slots, although i don't really mind it. its also not just being able to buy more high end gear, although i enjoy that. to me, if i found some great item, and just left it laying there, whats the friggin point of anything? it makes everything seem so useless and sad.

i use selling to id potions and scrolls, and would feel bad getting nothing for them. does that not make sense? i don't care, its how i feel regardless of if it's how i should feel. i don't think i'll play 3.3.0 anymore because of the drastically reduced prices on selling things, although some of the other changes seem interesting. id by use is great on things like wands, but potions, scrolls, and even staves are annoying to id by use, because of certain conditions needing to right to ID (such as invisible creatures needing to be nearby to identify a scroll of see invisible) i know i can "donate" it, but i feel like the shopkeep is doing alright without my charity. i dunno if anyone else is remotely like me in playing preferences, but i certainly realize i'm a quirky player.
sorry if i'm rambling, but the reasonings behind my personal preferences are usually hard for me to articulate.

Derakon June 26, 2011 03:27

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Nobody. It's important to have contrarian views. :)

PowerDiver June 26, 2011 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zikke (Post 55932)
For me, it's never about inventory management. It's about IRL time saved by finding things I would otherwise have to scum for.

The only way I see how selling could save you time is to give you more money sooner. What do you see as the difference between what you like about selling and my point (2)?

PowerDiver June 26, 2011 03:51

Thanks from me too, Nobody. It is helpful to read your explanation.

Zikke June 26, 2011 04:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerDiver (Post 55956)
The only way I see how selling could save you time is to give you more money sooner. What do you see as the difference between what you like about selling and my point (2)?

I interpreted your (2) to be that somebody would rather just buy stuff in town instead of exploring for it because they're lazy. In my case, I was making a note that sometimes a character gets totally stuck in a part of the game and can't go deeper because they are missing something crucial (like telepathy, or TO spells), and they're just unlucky. Being able to buy some of these "gateway" items hedges the gamble of the RNG making life boring for a long time.

This also is related to my mental investment in Angband. I don't want the game to take me months and months to win, but that attitude varies per person.

Some people scrutinize every single step and spellcast, and their journal looks like "Turn 145065: Stepped left. I think I see a pair of boots on the ground. I will begin moving towards it. Detect Monsters shows a Spectre that is 16 squares away. Turn 145066: Feeling saucy and stepped diagonal left and up, to keep the defense guessing. Another Detect Monsters indicates the Spectre hasn't seen me yet. Turn 145067: Got paranoid and decided to spend a turn shitting my pants. What if the spectre wakes up and chases me? OMG WHAT IF THE SPECTRE WOKE UP TO THE SOUND OF MY PANTS?? Turn 145068: Recalled."

I don't have time for that stuff. :)

Angelus June 26, 2011 04:43

I'm curious about why people are upset over "donating" un-ided (not really sure how you make that abbreviation past tense...) objects. I always felt like you practically were donating them already-shopkeepers pay diddly for something unknown. And id by use isn't *necessary*, and I can't say that sell vs. no-sell has changed how I id things at all. I usually drink potions, read scrolls, zap rods, and usually read scrolls of ident for staves/wands (I find that id-by-use for staves/wands is just annoying). I don't really see that selling comes into play there.

And I think by the time you would have enough money to afford BOS or something of telepathy in the blackmarket, no-sell has usually caught up to regular selling...but it does eliminate the prospect of selling artifacts in emergency situations-something I do miss a little bit.

I play a very fast angband game, so fast that my sister-in-law was watching me for a few minutes one time and got frustrated because she couldn't read fast enough to keep up with my playing. I like no-selling because it means that I spend a lot less time sitting and thinking. Less time thinking about meaningless things=I find cool objects in the dungeon faster=I have more fun. The only time I ever really seriously stop and think each turn out is when I'm finding a challenging unique, or if I see a greater vault, but know I'm not strong enough to think about going into it...but do anyways, because well, I would probably rather die than miss a greater vault.

Nick June 26, 2011 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zikke (Post 55959)
Some people scrutinize every single step and spellcast, and their journal looks like "Turn 145065: Stepped left. I think I see a pair of boots on the ground. I will begin moving towards it. Detect Monsters shows a Spectre that is 16 squares away. Turn 145066: Feeling saucy and stepped diagonal left and up, to keep the defense guessing. Another Detect Monsters indicates the Spectre hasn't seen me yet. Turn 145067: Got paranoid and decided to spend a turn shitting my pants. What if the spectre wakes up and chases me? OMG WHAT IF THE SPECTRE WOKE UP TO THE SOUND OF MY PANTS?? Turn 145068: Recalled."

This is the best description of anything ever.

dos350 June 26, 2011 10:33

on another note i had to turn off autosave in oangband, lol ~ who came up with that idea!?


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