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-   -   Teleport Other, too powerful? (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=1813)

buzzkill May 1, 2009 15:18

Teleport Other, too powerful?
 
Just wondering if anyone else felt the way way that I do, that Teleport Other is too powerful, given it's low price and availability. I'd rate it as more valuable than speed in almost any situation.

I like it to only affect only a single monster, still useful, but not the vault clearing machine it is now. Wand (or rods) of TO + vault = artifacts, with very little actual 'work'.

Zikke May 1, 2009 17:56

I think they are find how they are. I do like in FA where they only teleport one target instead of a line of them. Makes it more balanced, and sometimes you want all the trash to stay there but TO away just one nasty.

Donald Jonker May 1, 2009 18:12

Maybe not too powerful, since I don't think there's anything wrong with Angband's difficulty level, though it's certainly an uninteresting solution, since there aren't any drawbacks. Raising the price, adjusting the rarity, or the failure rate is just putting a band-aid on it.

Perhaps a more interesting way to handle it would be to have monsters teleport to somewhere inconvenient: put them to sleep next to the stairs or in a corridor, for example. Or make teleported monsters faster and increase their detection radius... perhaps to include the entire level.

PaulBlay May 1, 2009 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donald Jonker (Post 18474)
Perhaps a more interesting way to handle it would be to have monsters teleport to somewhere inconvenient: put them to sleep next to the stairs or in a corridor, for example. Or make teleported monsters faster and increase their detection radius... perhaps to include the entire level.

That seems a bit forced. How about just having teleport other teleport objects as well? You can still get them by the old method but you have to hunt them down over the whole level (filled with monster teleported out of the vault).

Atarlost May 1, 2009 18:16

Perhaps monsters should save against TO at the difference between their level and your level. That way you'd have to risk standing up to a nasty monster for a few turns to send it away.

RogerN May 1, 2009 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atarlost (Post 18476)
Perhaps monsters should save against TO at the difference between their level and your level. That way you'd have to risk standing up to a nasty monster for a few turns to send it away.

Please no... the last thing this game needs is more spells which consistently fail to work (e.g. sleep, confuse).

buzzkill May 2, 2009 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donald Jonker (Post 18474)
Perhaps a more interesting way to handle it would be to have monsters teleport to somewhere inconvenient: put them to sleep next to the stairs or in a corridor, for example. Or make teleported monsters faster and increase their detection radius... perhaps to include the entire level.

There are too many sets of stairs, and they are bypassable entirely, but I think we're in agreement. After my initial post, I came up with a better solution. Since hostile teleportation is, well, hostile, monsters capable of such feelings would find it aggravating. So... aggravate them. Give them haste, unlimited detection, and maybe even a dark blessing, so they can quickly reunite with the player and.... likely be TO'ed again. Hmmm... maybe that second TO should be resistible.

Donald Jonker May 2, 2009 02:54

I'm down w/ that. You saw that was my 2nd suggestion, right? ;)

etaomyx May 2, 2009 04:24

I would like to disagree. I think making TO'd monsters more aggressive would be far too confusing - might it not be unclear why an orc you encounter later on is so much faster than the others (indeed, why teleportation should "irritate" a monster any more than a conventional attack)? I don't think teleporting items solve the problem, either. It is still far too easy to separate a unique from his minions, vault monsters from their treasure, etc. The central problem is that it's just too consistent.

I agree with Atarlost: the best (and simplest) solution is to be consistent with sleep and confusion and raise the save rate, and possibly make uniques impervious to TO. (But it could fail in interesting ways: rather than teleporting monsters away, it might deliberately place them around the player! ;))

Atarlost May 2, 2009 04:57

I don't think uniques should be impervious to anything just because they're unique. It's okay if they're impervious to sleep because they're undead, but not because they're unique. There is absolute canonical evidence that sleep works on Morgoth and strong implication that it works on Balrogs including Gothmog. I think the save for sleep and confuse is way too high in general in the late game.


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