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-   -   Obviously doing it wrong. (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=7308)

Runaway1956 April 19, 2015 06:26

Obviously doing it wrong.
 
So, I stocked up on all the things I thought were useful, and went back to level 100, to do away with Morgoth, once and for all. I haste self, use a stave of holiness, and when Morgoth comes into sight, I use a staff of dispel evil.

I'm a ranger, so I do my best to position myself to take advantage of the long bow Belthronding, and my quivers full of arrows, all enhanced with Tenser's Transformation spells.

EDIT: Can't forget that I was well equipped with banish and mass banish - every few turns, I had to pause to get rid of hordes of deadly bad boys. I don't recall any uniques among them - guess I've killed them all!

The best of my ranging attacks causes Morgoth to laugh off the attack. I cause him some damage, take away a couple of his life bars with range attacks, but he's still showing yellow. Then he apparently does a life drain, drawing energy from my pack.

It seems that carrying staves and wands just provides Morgoth with energy to heal himself with! Repeatedly, every time i felt energy drain from my pack, I would look, and it was a staff that had lost a charge.

Of course, he also drains mana.

I was reduced to slugging it out with him, toe to toe, and I did well. Not great, but well. I reduced him to two red bars in his life bar, he was definitely hurting. BUT - I was out of Healing, out of *Healing*, rods of Healing were all charging, and I had one remaining potion of Life. Time to bail out!! Checked mana, I had enough to tele self a couple times, so tele, zap rod of recall, and rest, only to be interrupted by Morgoth. I'm still low on hitpoints, I quaff that precious potion of Life, tele self and fail, and take a couple hits, putting me in the red again. Try tele self again, that works, so I rest, to be yanked back up into the town.

So, I come away from the fight with the idea that I DO NOT want to carry staves and wands back down to level 100.

And, I've got the daunting task of stocking up on life saving potions again.

Advice?

Derakon April 19, 2015 06:43

Advice: you're a ranger, shoot him to death. Belthrondig with 3 shots/turn vastly outdamages anything you can do in melee, almost certainly. Use Phase Door to stay out of melee range, and when you run out of arrows, teleport Morgoth away so you can pick up the ones on the floor. This will drastically cut down on the amount of healing potions you'll need, since you'll only take damage when Morgoth casts direct-damage spells.

Before Morgoth reaches you when you return, use a Destruction effect to shatter the battlefield. This will break line-of-sight up so that if Morgoth summons, it's unlikely his minions will be able to see you after you Phase Door. Of course, you'll need to use a lot more Phase Door in a destructed area because the sight lines will be shorter. Use scrolls, not spells; they're cheap, unlimited, light, and have a 0% failure rate (unless you're blind/confused, of course).

Carry Cure Critical Wounds potions and use them to clear status ailments (e.g. due to Morgoth's brain smash spell) rather than Healing, unless of course your HP are also low. Instead of resting, teleport Morgoth away and then repeatedly chug Cure Critical Wounds (or cast Cure Light Wounds from book 1, since IIRC rangers have that spell). Then wait in 10-turn increments or so until Morgoth gets close. You don't want to rest, recover maybe a couple hundred HP, and then have Morgoth suddenly be right next to you.

Runaway1956 April 19, 2015 07:30

LOL at destruction effects - Morgoth is quite good at that himself! That was part of the reason I ran out of arrows - he kept doing his own destruction, and destroying stuff on the floor!

CCW - yes. I've been passing those by for a long time. But, I see what you're saying, I need to pick those up.

Well, I'm headed downward again, stocking up on supplies. This may take a couple days . . .

mushroom patch April 19, 2015 17:15

First, make a choice: Are you going to kill him with ranged attacks or are you going to melee him? Don't try to do both.

If you're doing melee, get a heavy weapon with slay evil. Something like a blade of chaos or mace of disruption is your best bet and not crazily difficult to find. Dig your way to the edge of the level near permanent walls, with a slightly zig zag path to prevent more than one open space being in line of sight. Buff as Morgoth approaches and melee him until he dies or summons something bad -- if bad enough, use banishment or teleport other if it's not unique, teleport other if it's a unique. If you're worried about dying on the next turn if you use banish or tele, either teleport level and abandon the fight or teleport Morgoth away and deal with the summons as above if that seems like it will work.

If you're doing ranged, do not let Morgoth melee you. If you don't want to cheez it (see hockeysticks), get a good stack of arrows set up in an open location, digging if necessary to open it more. You may want to use runes to prevent summons on top of you, but idk. Shoot at Morgoth until he approaches melee range, then teleport him. Do not let him melee you. Repeat until he's dead. You want to work with long lines of sight. Controlling summons is more annoying this way, imo, but in theory you should kill him in fewer turns with bows, so.

[Also, you should not be using tele self at this stage of the game. It is unnecessarily dangerous. If you really need to escape, use teleport level and always have it available. Never rest on a level with Morgoth and never recall from a Morgoth level -- you need to reset recall to 99 anyway. There's no reason to be worrying about running out of MP in this fight either. Bring restore mana potions.]

MattB April 20, 2015 01:36

And as you so rightly ascertained - never carry wands or staves into a fight with Morgoth (or Sauron, for that matter).

You can drop them on the floor, if you want, and use them off the floor, but the chances are they'll only last a few turns in the octarine firefight that's coming.

Runaway1956 April 20, 2015 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by mushroom patch (Post 100744)
First, make a choice: Are you going to kill him with ranged attacks or are you going to melee him? Don't try to do both.

If you're doing melee, get a heavy weapon with slay evil. Something like a blade of chaos or mace of disruption is your best bet and not crazily difficult to find. Dig your way to the edge of the level near permanent walls, with a slightly zig zag path to prevent more than one open space being in line of sight. Buff as Morgoth approaches and melee him until he dies or summons something bad -- if bad enough, use banishment or teleport other if it's not unique, teleport other if it's a unique. If you're worried about dying on the next turn if you use banish or tele, either teleport level and abandon the fight or teleport Morgoth away and deal with the summons as above if that seems like it will work.

If you're doing ranged, do not let Morgoth melee you. If you don't want to cheez it (see hockeysticks), get a good stack of arrows set up in an open location, digging if necessary to open it more. You may want to use runes to prevent summons on top of you, but idk. Shoot at Morgoth until he approaches melee range, then teleport him. Do not let him melee you. Repeat until he's dead. You want to work with long lines of sight. Controlling summons is more annoying this way, imo, but in theory you should kill him in fewer turns with bows, so.

[Also, you should not be using tele self at this stage of the game. It is unnecessarily dangerous. If you really need to escape, use teleport level and always have it available. Never rest on a level with Morgoth and never recall from a Morgoth level -- you need to reset recall to 99 anyway. There's no reason to be worrying about running out of MP in this fight either. Bring restore mana potions.]


Lots of food for thought there. Finding an open space runs counter to what I have read. But, it makes sense - rangers need open space to work really effectively.

I had a LOT of banishment, every time Morgoth did a summons, I got rid of everything. I did waste an inventory slot though, because I had some banishment scrolls, as well as mass banish staves. Having a stack of 40 mass banishment scrolls would probably suffice - if mass banish comes in scroll form. I need to look at that again.

Thanks for the input - I need it!

Runaway1956 April 20, 2015 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattB (Post 100768)
And as you so rightly ascertained - never carry wands or staves into a fight with Morgoth (or Sauron, for that matter).

You can drop them on the floor, if you want, and use them off the floor, but the chances are they'll only last a few turns in the octarine firefight that's coming.



Yeah - that's what I'm looking for, specifically. Confirmation that wands and staves don't belong in the final fight. I'll be hoarding scrolls from now on. Of course, there is the problem that scrumming is slow and tedious - I find so much loot, it's insane, but finding the specific loot that I'm in need of?

Dropping staves on the floor might be alright, but that seems to amount to a wasted inventory slot in the long run. I could have carried scrolls instead, or dragon breath potions, or even an alternative weapon instead. Or, for a ranger, more ammunition!

I'm thinking about saving and temporarily retiring my ranger, and running a warrior through the dungeon.

Of course, I said that before, and came back to the ranger instead.

Derakon April 20, 2015 02:33

I've used staves in the final fight, but only rarely, and only if I'm limited in consumables that the staves substitute for. For example, playing as a paladin with only a small stack of Potions of Speed, I might keep a Staff of Speed lying around on the floor to top myself up when possible. I've also brought a Staff of Destruction to prepare the battlefield and then dropped it and relied on scrolls for the actual fight.

There are scrolls of Mass Banishment, and they do definitely come in handy for this fight.

mushroom patch April 20, 2015 03:05

I think your character is very winnable, if you're doing the same one I saw a dump for earlier. You have tons of endgame gear, including a Morgoth-quality melee weapon and decent bows. I play so many rogues, I'm probably forgetting how things work, but don't the high level detection spells reveal objects w/ actual descriptions? If so, scumming for potions and scrolls shouldn't be that laborious. In any case, it's definitely preferred to kill Morgoth on the first engagement...

If you're looking to try another more melee-oriented character, I strongly recommend high-elf rogue. Great detection spells, great stealth, great melee throughout the game.

debo April 20, 2015 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by mushroom patch (Post 100775)
If you're looking to try another more melee-oriented character, I strongly recommend high-elf rogue.

The best character!!!


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