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I now have a fix which I think works in all circumstances (really this time) which will get pushed soonish. |
New builds are up on the nightlies page and angband.live (source is here) with a raft of fixes and improvements:
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Wow! Lots of good stuff in there! Thanks Nick and Eric!
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Good job! Thanks fellas!
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Have Iron Shots intentionally gone from 1 AU to 3?
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Quaffed a potion of surprise and probably changed into a bat. At least that's the message log says. Cool. A couple of notes though.
1. Is there some place where I can see that I have the bat form? Other than the message log. Status bar would be the obvious place. I'm playing with the Gervais set and it would be quite cool, if the character tile actually changed into a bat. EDIT: Doh, it says "Bat" right there in the upper left corner. 2. The character now has Stea, Infra, Speed, Dark and S.Inv on @ column in the character sheet. The message says that the character has learned the runes, but doesn't @ column mean innate abilities that don't grant knowledge on runes? Unless something has changed of course, I haven't played nightly versions for a while. EDIT: 3. @ is a warrior and 'm' does not allow @ to change back to human form. Then again I'm not sure what key should work with a warrior. Trying to read a scroll triggers a dialog that allows @ to change back to human form. Or maybe the bat-form should last for a limited time, but in that case reading a scroll should not trigger the change back dialog. Attachment 1816 |
Possibly an unintended consequence of the recent fixes to (a) Messages for learning objects by use, and/or (b) Objects with an unknown rune are never ignored (#4379); ignored objects no longer disappear until @ walks over them. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. If an ignored object usually disappeared automatically on sight, but then didn't, @ would get "leaked" information that the item was cursed. But, not having it disappear on sight also unravels a lot of the ease that ID by use was supposed to provide, bringing back the pain in the ass of having to walk over every object.
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Pretty sure you can learn resist heat and resist cold from the potions as well, for example. I guess you shouldn't...? Hadn't thought of it before. Was too pleased to get the free runes!!
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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ed_Bottles.jpg |
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I'm also not sure how this affects gameplay. If I've ignored an item, that means that I will never equip it, uncursed or otherwise, so who cares if that information is being leaked? If anything, now that I think about it, this change will make it kind of obnoxious to get trash to properly vanish, because I'll have to identify the curse to get it ignored. Maybe if we have an "Ignore All X even with unidentified runes" option, sort of like how you can ignore all "Good Swords" and all "Non-Artifact Banded Mail" and what-not. Then, for things that never have random properties that aren't curses (like Amulets of Resist Lightning) you can squash them away. |
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resist heat potions do teach the rune if you are wearing rfire at the time. Presumably because of the double resist. This however doesn't work with potions of rpoison for some reason.
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Maybe @ could only learn runes when wearing a concrete rune. Fire and cold by drinking a potion and wearing the rune. See invisibility scroll when wearing the rune. Innate abilities would identify the associated runes on wearing them. After shapeshift to bat @ would learn the assosiated runes if wearing them. And so on. That would be logical and consistent.
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Rune ID was certainly intended to remove some of the tedium, but also make it a meaningful part of the game, and like any part of the game it has to be open to questions of whether it makes logical sense, whether there are jarring inconsistencies, etc. As for the unknown rune change - in the 5 days since that change was made, the discussions here have led me to think that automatic ignoring of standard jewellery, but not of stuff that has extra curses, is probably the correct thing to do (although we may end up going back to the original situation). |
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Hey, so I wanted to raise some "quality of life" issues to see what others think; these are just things that I found to be "annoying" or maybe unclear in the current state of things (again, "QoL" stuff):
Flags: - What exactly does "Blessed" mean? There's no description of it anywhere in-game that I can find. Examining an ID'd Blessed weapon (or HA) just says "your weapon is blessed" and leaves it at that with no info on the benefits of it. Necro: - Since Necro's don't need light (but benefit highly from infra) I would love to see infra on the main view to know how much I have (maybe either beside light radius in the buff area at the bottom, or where HP/SP is on the left?). - Spells that self-damage should have that damage value in the spell description if space allows (e.g. Shadow Shift description doesn't says it damages you 2d5) - Nether Bolt does no damage to undead; I wish it said that somewhere (see Monster Memory below; I think that covers this issue). Monster Memory: - Currently a monster getting hit by a nether bolt doesn't appear to update the monster memory. This came up during my playthroughs because I noticed that undead are immune, but the monster descriptions don't include that info when they get hit. Thoughts? A couple of them are admittedly questionable/controversial, but I figured I'd raise them anyway just in case. EDIT: One more I recalled for mages: Mage: - I kind of wish Electric Arc functioned more like Noxious Fumes (@-centered AOE); a short range bolt hitting one target is a bit... disappointing |
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I've filed an issue to do the info improvements. |
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I do feel like if you have no light, though, the game should tell you "your infra's kicking in". Maybe if your light is zero, the callout at the bottom changes from "Light (0)" to "Infra 30" (in the same purple colour as no light), or something? If you get a light again, it switches back to "Light (2)" in yellow or whatnot. Or not. You're right that it's not a big deal. Just throwing that out there. |
New builds are now up on the nightlies page and angband.live with the following changes:
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Note that there's currently a slight problem with repeating, in that you can keep on reading Identify Rune scrolls on an object after it has all its runes identified. Fixed in development, fix will be in the next build.
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Is it intended behavior for an inscribed consumable to lose its inscription when you've used all of the item and then get some more?
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Did something change to the chance of ammo breaking on contact? When I look at Iron Shots (+0,+0) in the general store, the chance of breaking is 1%. This seems awfully low.
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So the reason is that they're throwing items now, which all have 1% breakage chance. I wondered about making an exception, but as Ingwe says, it does seem reasonable.
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Does fear cumulate? Is it so that everytime @ gets "You are terrified!" more rounds are added to the counter?
I assumed that "You feel bolder now." means that the fear counter has gone to zero. However, in my current game, I ate a Mushroom of Terror, got scared by some monster on top of that and then got "You feel bolder now." message. The Terror was still on and @ was unable to harm a fly in melee. Is the Terror counter different from Fear counter? If so, then the fear messages should probably be tweaked a bit, when Terror is on. |
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I've been seeing a weird double keypress happen in the latest nightly. I've noticed it happening with the movement keys, I use an external usb keypad with my macbook pro, but I think it also happens with regular commands occasionally.
I've also had the game crash while fighting monsters (several times). I tried last night to get a save file but didn't succeed. I'll keep trying. |
To my mind, the "new" targeting has a bit of a bug. When targeting a monster for, as an example, TO, or missiles. When the monster is successfully teleported away, or dies from the missiles, the targeting reticle remains on the physical location of the now absent monster. Previous behavior was that the no longer useful reticle would vanish rather than requiring extra keystrokes to undo the now useless targeting.
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Another odd bug. @ has complete monster memory, but when faced with Harowan, "Nothing is known about his attack".
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I just generated a +16 iron shot of flame and the best Buckland sling you can get. Throwing the shot does almost as much damage as firing the sling vs non fire resistant monster at level 50. With a regular sling, the shot does like 3x less damage than a simple throw. This is stupid...
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Personally, I like it how it is now. My previous and most recent characters were hobbit rangers who struggled to find a bow that was better than a sling. As a result, I had to lug around shot, but, with low strength, couldn't afford to carry more than 20 at a time. It would be incredibly annoying if the shot "got lost" as frequently as arrows. Slings wouldn't be worth the trouble even if they did decent damage. |
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Do the latest nightlies include the latest changes to the evolving Blackguard? Or is that a separate branch?
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When you hit 'r' on a stack of items, is it supposed to list all of the items in the stack? I did this last night on a stack of two items (wand and silver). It listed the wand and had a line for the sliver, but the text was empty. I had just drank a !enlightenment, so I assume @ should have known it was silver.
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Fixed in development :) |
Great!
Tangentially related, it is annoying when a monster obscures items that you've detected. For example, detect treasure then detect life and, if a monster is in the same location as an item, only the monster's symbol is displayed. It would be wonderful if there was a way to toggle between giving display preference to monsters or items, or maybe there already is? If there isn't, I'm guessing this is easier said than done. |
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http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?p=145479 |
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For Forced Descent games would it be a good idea to convert up staircases to down staircases? As an almost exclusively forced descent player this would be sooo nice.
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New builds are now up on the nightlies page and angband.live with the following changes:
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I don't expect this suggestion to be popular, but I think selling should be on by default. I've gotten a few new players into the game in the last several months and they all ask me about why they can't sell items for more than $0. I don't mind that experienced players think no_sell is the better way to play, but I really don't think it should be the default for people who don't even know how to change the birth options.
Might as well make "show effective speed as a multiplier" default for the same reason. |
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Many long-time players (me included) were sceptical about no-selling before it was made the default, and it has been pretty much universally acknowledged that it is a big improvement to gameplay. I think setting it as not the default is sending the wrong signals (especially to new players) as to what is important in the game. There was a period where Angband was derided as the "game of shopping", where a large part of the game consisted of wandering the dungeon slowed to -2 or -3 so you could lug around the latest collection of useless ego weapons to sell in the shops. I'd rather not go back to that. |
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But another way to go about it would be to have explanatory text somewhere. I can't tell every new player about the rules of no-sell! |
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Useful on the first play, but is there a way to make it not annoying on the fifty-first play? |
And point out the benefits of no-selling. Extra $$ on drops and treasure in walls.
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In my opinion as a game mechanic no-selling is better than selling. Makes the game much more streamlined. However it's quite illogical in a game world where there are shops around and more so in a genre where looting and selling is considered to be a cornerstone of some sort. Is there a reason for balancing the no-selling option by increasing the amount of money found in the dungeon instead of just allowing players to quick sell loot in the dungeon?
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I switched back to selling.
I don't carry around useless items just to sell them, only if I am planning to recall soon, I start to collect some stuff to sell. Plus, since the game encourages diving, I don't recall until I have reached some depth and shall get decent money for my loot (and get additional runes identified, which is of use also in no-selling mode). One very good reason for me to do so, is that I can sell dungeon books that are of no use for the current @ for lots of gold. With no-selling on, dungeon books may generate excellent level feelings and dissappointed players ;). |
No-selling simplify item's managment - one of the most annoying (to me) aspect of the game. Actually even with no-selling there are more then enough item managment - where you have to juggle items to combine certain set of items to cover resistances properly.. I hate this aspect of the game, sorry :( I think a lot of players likes it, but personally I like getting to the dungeon and fight there, not sitting upon piles of items.. So no-selling is the only way which I play.. Angband no-selling it's the most awesome mechanic in all-over roguelike games around. It's saves time which otherwise you have to spend on items managment - so you could spend it on something really interesting - actually playing the game by surviving in the dungeon.
Another point is.. CHArisma stat. Without it what the point to trade stuff to NPC ;) (ok, it's my old grudge about missing CHA...) Btw.. maybe there could be a parameter which could just influence on gold amount you find in the dungeon via no-selling... So instead of CHA there will be LUCK parameter then? Which is not possible to increase with the help of STAT potions (only at character creation). It will greatly help to rebalance different races. Anyway I miss times in Moria where you were able to bargain with NPCs in shops :D It was great to get a good deal after some time of persuading NPC to buy stuff for bigger price.. But it's just a nostalgia. I won't switch back to selling to NPC ever I suppose :) But as they say: never say never... |
You hate selling and love CHA?
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Yep :) I love CHArisma stat, it's very traditional. Came out from DnD (and it still there). CHArisma is great help for race rabalancing. Even with no-selling it could help in gamedesign: playing physically outstanding half-troll you should pay consequences for your ugly face when you try to _buy_ stuff from the shops.
Actually there are a lot of stuff which we could take from DnD, especially in terms of formulas and game balance.. Get back to the roots is useful sometimes, to see the picture with a fresh eye ;) |
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"Why do I get $0 for selling items?" is one of the most frequently asked questions at angband.live, up there with "how do I set up subwindows?", "which variants should I try?" and "[rodent/Gwarl/EpicMan], can you make corpses and skeletons weigh so much that no one except Igors can actually lug them home for the reward?"; though none of those are in the same league as the all-time champion "why do I move a zillion squares every time I press an arrow?"...
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There are a hundred not-completely-obvious game mechanics, and focusing on one just takes attention away from the others. I feel like the balance between no information and annoying repeated information is OK for no-selling. |
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Game just keeps getting better all the time. Among a hundred things, the latest changes to the monster recall really clarify monster speed and melee damage. Keep up the good work Nick and everyone else!
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Is there any reason for id by use of mushrooms to go wonky recently? @ just ate a "waxy mushroom", hallucinated wildly, felt drugged, resistant to fire, resistant to cold, and very good, and now sees some Mushrooms of Emergency in a stack on the floor. BUT, when inspecting the mushrooms in question, the only data given other than its name is, "It can be eaten." :confused:
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I created a Necro and tried Miasma for the first time at clvl 10. My character got confused, hallucinated and the clvl dropped to 1. I think its a bit too much. At that stage the only attack spell is nether bolt, until disenchant at clvl 16.
Also, the anti-teleport curse is silent. It should display a message when reading ?phase. |
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The confusion and hallucination can be a trade-off. The experience drain is the biggest problem I think. It causes a massive drop in HP and SP.
I really like chaos for a necro, it's more thematic than inertia or force. Can we have some kind of soft-chaos ? |
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My plan is to do away with the bit more for chaos, but raise the drain percentage to 3%. |
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What´s with the Lantern of Shadows again? I thought it was custom made for necromancers.
I found one very early as a Dunadan Necromancer and it gave <+1> stealth and a big light radius, screwing my spells. Played on angband.live (nightly). |
Unfortunately lanterns still emit light. Would it make sense to have a command to empty lanterns (the opposite of F)? As a necromancer, I can see myself using certain empty ego lanterns just for the resistances and/or stealth bonuses, but I'd have to rest to drain them out.
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I completely forgot I needed to empty it. Too bad I committed a suicide on that character who found the Lantern :D |
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