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-   -   Mage at 40 - What do I need to go deeper? (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=3371)

Nameless June 19, 2010 22:29

Mage at 40 - What do I need to go deeper?
 
This is by far the best mage I've run thus far. I'm covered on nearly every resist I can scrounge, but I've had a distinct lack of stat gain potions. In particular, INT/CON/STR are all lower than I'd expected for my depth. (I've spent some time scumming the Black Market for potions when my cash gets too obscene, but that's not helped much, as the RNG is still having a laugh at my expense even with that... :mad:)

I'm at 2000' now, and I'm hesitating to go deeper, for fear that my middling level/HP/SP are going to provide an obstacle below this point.

Is there any advice the more experienced delvers might wish to offer on the subject?

Code:

[Angband 3.1.2v2 Character Dump]

 Name  Nirruden                                Self  RB  CB  EB  Best
 Sex    Male        Age            124  STR:  18/48  +1  -5  +2  18/28
 Race  High-Elf    Height          73  INT:  18/66  +3  +3  +6 18/186
 Class  Mage        Weight        208  WIS:    13  -1  +0  +4    16
 Title  Conjurer    Social  Role model  DEX:  18/43  +3  +1  +0  18/83
 HP    284/284      Maximize        Y  CON:  18/62  +1  -2  +1  18/62
 SP    236/240                          CHR:    18  +5  +1  +3  18/90

 Level              32  Armor    [41,+93]    Saving Throw        80%
 Cur Exp        405273  Fight    (+10,+8)    Stealth          Superb
 Max Exp        405273  Melee  (+23,+25)    Fighting      Excellent
 Adv Exp        460000  Shoot    (+27,+9)    Shooting      Excellent
 MaxDepth  2000' (L40)  Blows      1/turn    Disarming            74%
 Game Turns    2174404  Shots      2/turn    Magic Device        107
 Player Turns    304523  Infra      40 ft    Perception      1 in 16
 Active Turns    81095  Speed          7    Searching            19%
 Gold            102621  Burden  238.2 lbs

 You are the only child of a Vanyarin King.  You have light green eyes,
 straight black hair, and a fair complexion.



rAcid:......+.+.... rConf:......+..+...
rElec:......+.+.... Sound:......+......
rFire:+.....+.+.... Shard:.............
rCold:......+.+.... Nexus:......++...+.
rPois:+............ Nethr:.............
rFear:............. Chaos:.............
rLite:........+.+.+ Disen:.............
rDark:........+.... S.Dig:+............
rBlnd:........+.... Feath:...........+.

Light:..........+.. Aggrv:.............
Regen:+............ Stea.:.......+.....
  ESP:............. Sear.:.............
Invis:............+ Infra:............+
FrAct:+.........+.. Tunn.:.............
HLife:............. Speed:..+....+.....
ImpHP:............. Blows:.............
ImpSP:............. Shots:.+...........
 Fear:............. Might:.............


  [Character Equipment]

a) The Zweihander 'Gurthang' (3d6) (+13,+17) (+2)
    +2 strength.
    *Slays* dragons.
    Branded with flames, venom.
    Provides resistance to fire, poison.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
    Slows your metabolism.  Speeds regeneration.  Prevents paralysis. 
   
   
    Combat info:
    1 blow/round.
    With an additional 6 strength and 0 dex you would get 2 blows
    With an additional 0 strength and 2 dex you would get 2 blows
    Average damage/hit: 61.5 vs. creatures not resistant to fire, 61.5
    vs. creatures not resistant to poison, 84.6 vs. dragons, and 38.4
    vs. others.
   
b) a Heavy Crossbow of Extra Shots (x4) (+17,+9) (+1)
    +1 shooting speed.
   
c) a Ring of Speed (+8)
    +8 speed.
   
d) a Ring of Intelligence (+6)
    +6 intelligence.
    Sustains intelligence.
   
e) an Amulet of Wisdom (+1)
    +1 wisdom.
    Sustains wisdom.
   
f) The Phial of Galadriel
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
   
    When activated, it lights up the surrounding area, hurting light-s
    ensitive creatures.
    Takes 18 to 34 turns to recharge at your current speed.
    Your chance of success is 98.1%
   
    Radius 3 light.
g) The Full Plate Armour of Isildur [26,+25] (+1)
    +1 constitution.
    Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, confusion,
    sound, nexus.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
   
h) The Cloak 'Colannon' [1,+13] (+3)
    +3 stealth, speed.
    Provides resistance to nexus.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
   
    When activated, it teleports you randomly up to 100 squares away.
    Takes 76 turns to recharge at your current speed.
    Your chance of success is 98.1%
   
i) The Leather Shield of Celegorm [4,+20]
    Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, light, dark,
    blindness.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
   
j) The Metal Cap of Thengel [3,+12] (+3)
    +3 wisdom, charisma.
    Provides resistance to confusion.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
   
k) The Set of Leather Gloves 'Cammithrim' (+5,+5) [1,+10]
    Provides resistance to light.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
    Sustains constitution.
    Prevents paralysis. 
   
    When aimed, it fires a magic missile with damage 3d4.
    Takes 3 turns to recharge at your current speed.
    Your chance of success is 97.8%
   
    Radius 1 light.
l) a Pair of Steel Shod Boots of Stability [6,+9]
    Provides resistance to nexus.
    Feather Falling. 
   


  [Character Quiver]

n) 27 Bolts (1d5) (+7,+4)
    Combat info:
    Hits targets up to 140 feet away.
    Average damage/hit: 65.2.
    25% chance of breaking upon contact.
   
o) (nothing)
p) (nothing)
q) (nothing)
r) (nothing)
s) (nothing)
t) (nothing)
u) (nothing)
v) (nothing)
w) (nothing)


  [Character Inventory]

a) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Magic for Beginners] {@m1!d!x!k}
b) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Conjurings and Tricks] {@m2!d!x!k}
c) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Incantations and Illusions] {@m3!d!x!k}
d) 3 Books of Magic Spells [Sorcery and Evocations] {@m4!d!x!k}
e) a Book of Magic Spells [Resistances of Scarabtarices] {@m5!d!x!k}
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
   
f) 26 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds
   
g) 8 Scrolls of Teleportation
h) 5 Scrolls of Word of Recall
i) 3 Rods of Probing
j) a Rod of Illumination
k) a Wand of Lightning Balls (9 charges)
    Cannot be harmed by electricity.
   
l) 2 Wands of Sleep Monster (28 charges)
   
m) a Wand of Teleport Other (8 charges)
   
n) a Ring of Soulkeeping
    Sustains strength, intelligence, wisdom.
   
o) an Amulet of Searching (+4)
    +20% to searching.
   
p) Metal Scale Mail (-2) [12,+2]
q) The Soft Leather Armour 'Hithlomir' [4,+20] (+4)
    +4 stealth.
    Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, dark, nether.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
   
r) a Set of Alchemist's Gloves of Power (+1,+4) [0,+7] (+5)
    +5 strength.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
   
s) a Pair of Steel Shod Boots of Free Action [6,+5]
    Prevents paralysis. 
   
t) a Halberd of *Slay Dragon* (3d5) (+4,+4) (+1)
    +1 constitution.
    *Slays* dragons.
    Provides resistance to fear.
   
    Combat info:
    1 blow/round.
    With an additional 0 strength and 2 dex you would get 2 blows
    Average damage/hit: 60 vs. dragons, and 21.2 vs. others.
   
u) a Lucerne Hammer (2d5)
    You do not know the full extent of this item's powers.
   
    Combat info:
    1 blow/round.
    With an additional 4 strength and 0 dex you would get 2 blows
    With an additional 0 strength and 2 dex you would get 2 blows
    Average damage/hit: 13.4.
   
v) a Light Crossbow of Extra Might (x4) (+8,+14) (+1)
    +1 shooting power.
   


  [Home Inventory]

a) 3 Books of Magic Spells [Magic for Beginners] {@m1!d!x!k}
b) 3 Books of Magic Spells [Conjurings and Tricks] {@m2!d!x!k}
c) 5 Books of Magic Spells [Incantations and Illusions] {@m3!d!x!k}
d) 3 Books of Magic Spells [Sorcery and Evocations] {@m4!d!x!k}
e) 99 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds
   
f) 4 Potions of Healing
   
g) 2 Potions of Restore Mana
h) 6 Potions of Enlightenment
i) 15 Scrolls of Teleportation
j) 15 Scrolls of Teleport Level
k) 21 Scrolls of Enchant Weapon To-Hit
l) 29 Scrolls of Enchant Weapon To-Dam
m) 23 Scrolls of Enchant Armour
n) a Scroll of *Destruction*
o) a Staff of the Magi (3 charges)
   
p) a Ring of Free Action
    Prevents paralysis. 
   
q) a Jewel Encrusted Crown of Might [0,+4] (+2)
    +2 strength, dexterity, constitution.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
    Sustains strength, dexterity, constitution.
    Prevents paralysis. 
   
r) The Set of Leather Gloves 'Cambeleg' (+8,+8) [1,+15] (+2)
    +2 strength, constitution.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
    Prevents paralysis. 
   
s) a Short Sword (Defender) (1d7) (+8,+5) [+4] (+1 stealth)
    +1 stealth.
    Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
    Sustains charisma.
    Feather Falling.  Speeds regeneration.  Prevents paralysis. 
    Grants the ability to see invisible things. 
   
    Combat info:
    1 blow/round.
    With an additional 2 strength and 0 dex you would get 2 blows
    With an additional 0 strength and 2 dex you would get 2 blows
    Average damage/hit: 16.5.
   
t) The Beaked Axe of Theoden (2d6) (+8,+10) (+3)
    +3 wisdom, constitution.
    Slays dragons.
    Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
    Slows your metabolism.  Grants telepathy. 
   
    When aimed, it drains up to 120 hit points of life from a target c
    reature.
    Takes 68 turns to recharge at your current speed.
    Your chance of success is 97.1%
   
    Combat info:
    1 blow/round.
    With an additional 7 strength and 0 dex you would get 2 blows
    With an additional 0 strength and 2 dex you would get 2 blows
    Average damage/hit: 40.6 vs. dragons, and 25.5 vs. others.
   
u) 35 Bolts (1d5) (+7,+4)
    Combat info:
    Hits targets up to 140 feet away.
    Average damage/hit: 65.2.
    25% chance of breaking upon contact.
   


============================================================
                  CHAR.
|  TURN  | DEPTH |LEVEL| EVENT
============================================================
        1      0'    1  Began the quest to destroy Morgoth.
      2821      0'    1  Killed Farmer Maggot
      6995    50'    2  Reached level 2
    12231    100'    3  Reached level 3
    17688    100'    4  Reached level 4
    31234    100'    4  Killed Fang, Farmer Maggot's dog
    35144    100'    4  Killed Grip, Farmer Maggot's dog
    38224    100'    5  Reached level 5
    54508    100'    6  Reached level 6
    80903    300'    7  Reached level 7
    89546    300'    8  Reached level 8
    112163    350'    9  Reached level 9
    274253    350'  10  Reached level 10
    293987    400'  11  Reached level 11
    323462    400'  12  Reached level 12
    369065    400'  13  Reached level 13
    415740    450'  14  Reached level 14
    459695    450'  14  Killed Bullroarer the Hobbit
    459720    450'  14  Found The Cloak 'Colannon'
    459734    450'  14  Found The Phial of Galadriel
    466681    500'  15  Reached level 15
    533820    500'  16  Reached level 16
    538947    500'  16  Killed Wormtongue, Agent of Saruman
    586059    550'  16  Killed Mughash the Kobold Lord
    613798    550'  17  Reached level 17
    618425    600'  17  Killed Orfax, Son of Boldor
    670427    600'  18  Reached level 18
    673162    600'  18  Killed Lagduf, the Snaga
    735587    750'  19  Reached level 19
    753511    750'  19  Killed Ufthak of Cirith Ungol
    787370    800'  20  Reached level 20
    797394    850'  20  Killed Brodda, the Easterling
    828432      0'  21  Reached level 21
    904862    950'  22  Reached level 22
    924015    950'  23  Reached level 23
    932874    950'  23  Killed Nar, the Dwarf
    979796  1100'  24  Reached level 24
  1008556  1150'  25  Reached level 25
  1022526  1200'  25  Killed Ibun, Son of Mim
  1031823  1200'  25  Found The Metal Cap of Thengel
  1034497  1200'  25  Killed Bolg, Son of Azog
  1059003  1250'  25  Killed Gorbag, the Orc Captain
  1059713  1250'  25  Found The Soft Leather Armour 'Hithlomir'
  1074990  1400'  26  Reached level 26
  1079254  1400'  26  Killed Shagrat, the Orc Captain
  1104560  1500'  26  Found The Leather Shield of Celegorm
  1114758  1600'  26  Killed Angamaite of Umbar
  1115258  1600'  26  Found The Dagger 'Dethanc' (LOST)
  1126780  1750'  27  Reached level 27
  1130331  1750'  27  Killed Grishnakh, the Hill Orc
  1133471  1750'  27  Killed Lugdush, the Uruk
  1167207  1750'  28  Reached level 28
  1195790  1750'  29  Reached level 29
  1199315  1750'  29  Killed Tom the Stone Troll
  1199571  1750'  29  Found The Set of Gauntlets 'Paurhach' (LOST)
  1226680  1750'  29  Killed Beorn, the Shape-Changer
  1233190  1750'  29  Found The Lance of Eorlingas (LOST)
  1246389  1750'  30  Reached level 30
  1369691  1800'  30  Killed Azog, King of the Uruk-Hai
  1376760  1800'  30  Killed Ulfast, Son of Ulfang
  1378469  1800'  31  Reached level 31
  1389247  1800'  31  Found The Set of Leather Gloves 'Cammithrim'
  1390647  1800'  31  Killed Lokkak, the Ogre Chieftain
  1390674  1800'  31  Found The Set of Leather Gloves 'Cambeleg'
  1400670  1800'  31  Found The Dagger 'Nimthanc' (LOST)
  1501027  1800'  31  Killed Bert the Stone Troll
  1562922  1800'  31  Killed Ariel, Queen of Air
  1565939  1800'  31  Found The Zweihander 'Gurthang'
  1597009  1800'  31  Found The Broad Sword 'Glamdring' (LOST)
  1608547  1900'  31  Found The Set of Gauntlets 'Paurnen' (LOST)
  2156832  1950'  32  Reached level 32
  2158577  1950'  32  Found The Beaked Axe of Theoden
  2170932  2000'  32  Killed Mim, Betrayer of Turin
  2170965  2000'  32  Found The Full Plate Armour of Isildur


  [Options]

Maximize effect of race/class bonuses        : yes (adult_maximize)
Randomize some of the artifacts (beta)      : no  (adult_randarts)
Restrict the use of stairs/recall            : no  (adult_ironman)
Restrict the use of stores/home              : no  (adult_no_stores)
Restrict creation of artifacts              : no  (adult_no_artifacts)
Don't stack objects on the floor            : no  (adult_no_stacking)
Lose artifacts when leaving level            : no  (adult_no_preserve)
Don't generate connected stairs              : no  (adult_no_stairs)
Adult: Monsters chase current location      : yes (adult_ai_sound)
Adult: Monsters chase recent locations      : yes (adult_ai_smell)
Adult: Monsters act smarter in groups        : yes (adult_ai_packs)
Adult: Monsters learn from their mistakes    : no  (adult_ai_learn)
Adult: Monsters exploit players weaknesses  : no  (adult_ai_cheat)
Adult: Monsters behave more intelligently (broken): no  (adult_ai_smart)
Score: Peek into object creation            : no  (score_peek)
Score: Peek into monster creation            : no  (score_hear)
Score: Peek into dungeon creation            : no  (score_room)
Score: Peek into something else              : no  (score_xtra)
Score: Know complete monster info            : no  (score_know)
Score: Allow player to avoid death          : no  (score_live)


PowerDiver June 19, 2010 22:37

I'd go with ESP over rPoison, always. I would not even carry Gurthang as a swap. You have the spell. Just be sure to detect monsters often to look out for drolems. Carry all of your bolts, and maybe buy another 99 boring ones from the store. Leave your boots at home. They are not doing you any good, and if nothing else it allows you to pick up another pair of boots in the dungeon to take home to sell.

Nameless June 19, 2010 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerDiver (Post 35589)
I'd go with ESP over rPoison, always. I would not even carry Gurthang as a swap. You have the spell. Just be sure to detect monsters often to look out for drolems. Carry all of your bolts, and maybe buy another 99 boring ones from the store. Leave your boots at home. They are not doing you any good, and if nothing else it allows you to pick up another pair of boots in the dungeon to take home to sell.

Thanks for the advice. The last two "important" drops I've gotten have been the fifth book and its temporary resists on demand (which makes the melee weapon optional if I'm careful to keep resistances running) and the Full Plate of Isildur (which makes the boots 100% superfluous, as you correctly note).

My worry with dropping permanent rPoison is that I teleport away from something and land next to something I can't see (or have a round to detect) which then breathes me to death while I'm still trying to detect it. Is this less likely than I'm worrying about?

I hadn't considered taking all the bolts with me previously, as they're heavy, but I can probably afford some loss of speed for this, thanks to the RoS and cloak. However, with the SP cost changes present in 3.1.2v2, I've found myself relying on spells far more often, with ranged weapons relegated to an early "backup" weapon and for times early on when SP ran low dealing with large packs. Are mages still as heavily dependent on ranged weapons in the new version with the changes as they were in previous versions? (I haven't actually used the bow in several levels, preferring to Phase and then continue bolting.)

nullfame June 20, 2010 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nameless (Post 35592)
My worry with dropping permanent rPoison is that I teleport away from something and land next to something I can't see (or have a round to detect) which then breathes me to death

This is just me but I've all but stopped teleporting. Teleporting gets me killed. Unlike going to a new level, baddies may get a turn before you can react. And it isn't just poison breathers. "The Ethereal dragon breathes confusion. You are confused! You die." I pack the staff out of habit but prefer ?deepDecent, ?teleportLevel, or ?destruction when in danger (though I try to save ?destruction); teleport other or _destruction when things aren't going my way.

ESP v. rPoison is a personal choice. I think PowerDiver is right though. Hopefully you'll find a telepathy helmet soon and it will be a moot point. Thengel isn't doing anything for you right now with Isildur on. I'd wear the crown of might for +2 CON.

Nameless June 20, 2010 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by nullfame (Post 35597)
This is just me but I've all but stopped teleporting. Teleporting gets me killed. Unlike going to a new level, baddies may get a turn before you can react. And it isn't just poison breathers. "The Ethereal dragon breathes confusion. You are confused! You die."

Well, I'm packing resists to literally everything I've seen so far that has a resist (exception: shards, nether, chaos) so I've reduced the big-breather worries a bit. Inertia or Force Hounds, I watch carefully, and anything with Nether bolts (like the OOD Death Knight I squashed) I watch like a hawk.

I'm not looking to dive immediately to 70, per se, but the Angband Newbie Guide refers to 1900' as someplace you hold up while you get maxxed stats, along with rConf and rBlind. I have the latter two, so I've been holding at 2000' because I'm not yet at maxxed stats. I also don't have Hold Life which TANG recommends at 2500', so there's a limit to how far I'd dive in any case.

Quote:

I pack the staff out of habit but prefer ?deepDecent, ?teleportLevel, or ?destruction when in danger (though I try to save ?destruction); teleport other or _destruction when things aren't going my way.
I stopped carrying the staff as soon as I had rConf and rBlind locked up, because staves have a failure rate, and scrolls do not. For 5.0lbs (staff weight) I can carry 10 Teleport scrolls and they're both less likely to be destroyed (1 staff vs. 10 scrolls) and more total charges (10 vs ~6-8).

However, I've found I tend to avoid relying on them at this depth. For example, I just had a run in with "Lorgan, Chief of the Easterlings" sitting inside a circular vault at 2000', and that was a nasty, nasty experience. Probes indicated I couldn't hurt him with anything other than melee/bow and magic missile, and he summons other nasties (two MHDs popped at one point) so I just bailed, rather than run the risk I'd teleport INTO the vault, where ~30 OOD foes were sleeping in wait. Unfortunately, +20 speed just isn't enough to deal with a unique that resists everything (other than MM and bolts) and his summoned foes at the same time. Just chalk it up as a learning experience, bail out and fight another day, right? :D

Quote:

ESP v. rPoison is a personal choice. I think PowerDiver is right though. Hopefully you'll find a telepathy helmet soon and it will be a moot point.
Well... I found an iron crown of Telepathy in the BM, and based on the recommendations here, I snagged it. With that equipped, I've got ESP, and Gurthang provides rPoison, so I've got resists for almost everything (exception: Shards, Nether, Chaos, Hold Life).

Quote:

Thengel isn't doing anything for you right now with Isildur on. I'd wear the crown of might for +2 CON.
I'll try this set of gear out for now. I still need something to replace the boots, as well, so hopefully I can find both scumming level 40 some more - a helm with telepathy that couldn't be damaged by acid would be a good start.

Thanks for the help - I'm trying to get more familiar with "Life after 40", preferably before I have a run in with something I can't fix. ;)

Derakon June 20, 2010 02:08

Note that you cannot teleport into vaults. In fact, if you're in a vault, then any teleportation will take you out of it. Phase Door in a vault typically takes you to the closest non-vault tile, if the vault is of any appreciable size. This can be annoying, but usually I find it to be useful.

And yeah, teleport as an escape is generally a last resort, especially in deeper levels. It's all too easy to end up next to something worse than what you were originally running away from...

Hariolor June 20, 2010 03:47

On a related note vis-a-vis teleport. I've long noticed that multiple teleports in sequence seem to just bounce me between the same 2-3 spots in the dungeon. I am assuming this is some byproduct of the code for teleportation - but it's worth noting as it more-or-less ensures that if you teleport into a bad situation, the next teleport will put you right back in the middle of the *first* bad situation....or maybe I'm crazy.

miyazaki June 20, 2010 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hariolor (Post 35607)
On a related note vis-a-vis teleport. I've long noticed that multiple teleports in sequence seem to just bounce me between the same 2-3 spots in the dungeon. I am assuming this is some byproduct of the code for teleportation - but it's worth noting as it more-or-less ensures that if you teleport into a bad situation, the next teleport will put you right back in the middle of the *first* bad situation....or maybe I'm crazy.

Yeah, my experience too.

Derakon June 20, 2010 06:10

Yeah, there seems to be some emergent behavior in the teleportation code that causes this. I believe it has something to do with the range of teleportation spells; Portal, which is shorter-range (at least early on), seems to be less prone to it.

buzzkill June 20, 2010 15:49

Yep, I've been the victim of teleportation deja vu too. It seems that the easiest fix would be to "remember" where you have been, and don't allow the player to land within a radius xx grids (maybe 5) of that spot.


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